88&89 Blazers acquired Buck Willams an 8 year vet and Wayne Cooper 11 vet, and the year before Danny Young 5 year vet, and it propelled them to contender status.
I think if you trade Dame, you have to get at least a young bugging allstar and picks along with other players. I don’t know what team that is, which is why I say a player like Maxie. Young, stud, on a team that would like Dame….certainly there are others. You also have to get lucky, I get that too. You brought up Sacramento and their lottery woes. But Sacramento could have drafted 09 Curry/DeRozen over Evans 10. Cousins was fine 11. Kawhi/Klay over Biyombo 12. Dame over Robinson 13. Giannis over McLemore 14. Shitty draft…yuck 15. Booker over Cauley-Stein 16. No one 17. Fox was a good pick 18. 5-6 studs over Bagley I feel, with Schmitz, we are in good hands draft wise. Maybe I just like the unknown better than what we already know? I know Dame is a shitty defender. I know Grant doesn’t rebound. I know Chauncey is way over his head. I know Ant is a chicken who doesn’t play defense. I know Nurk is an average center at best. I know, or at least am pretty damn sure that we don’t have a ton of assets to get better. BUT….Maybe we get the 2nd pick and get Henderson, or whatever and he and Sharpe are a nice young backcourt? Maybe a young player like Barrett or whatever with those two become a nice 3? I’ve rambled
we've discussed the Maxey trade before. Setting aside the issue of trading Dame for a player who may actually be smaller, after years of Portland having a problem with a small backcourt....(and it's debatable if Maxey is a PG or a small SG) the issue is Philly has only one draft pick to trade...their 2030 1st round pick basically, the Blazers would be trading Dame for Tobias Harris, Maxey, and a 2030 first...that's a real shitty return for Dame, and it locks Portland into a purgatory....and you are tired of purgatory. If you like that kind of trade, then your desire is not for Portland to get better...it's just getting rid of Dame that's the problem with trading Dame....the theory of trading Dame almost always crashes against the wall of what is realistically available
I don’t understand why you can’t grasp “a player LIKE Maxie” under 25 very good player is the TYPE of player or players we should look for. We haven’t and aren’t winning with Dame. Let’s try something else
what I'm saying is that the realistic examples of a "player LIKE Maxey" who would be available in a Dame trade are hard to find. So, as long as you're using Maxey as a theory, I'll use the reality of Maxey and what Philly has to trade. What's next, Ben Simmons and Claxton? maybe, just maybe, what the Blazers are trying to do is put a better team around Dame than Olshey ever did. Olshey never once actually tried to build a team around Dame. Not one fucking time. It was always CJ & Dame this is a pointless discussion. You're NEVER going to convince me that trading Dame is going to make the Blazers better into a solid playoff team in the next 5 years, or more. And I'm obviously not convincing you that not trading Dame, and making a solid effort to land another all-star is the way to go obviously, if Dame asks to be traded all bets are off. But I'm convinced the return is going to be relatively shitty
Agreed. We will not get good value for Dame. The best we could get would be picks that we could get lucky with. And we could get picks to get lucky with a dozen other ways.
Hanging onto Dame or trading Dame isn't just about the best chance at a ring. There are other things to consider. If it’s unlikely that we will ever win a ring with Dame, it only delays the rebuild that will ultimately need to happen. It’s like staying in a relationship that you know is doomed. Why stay with someone that you know you won’t marry if your ultimate goal is to find a life partner? While you’re with someone that you know you won’t marry, you might miss out on THE ONE. Also, keeping Dame eats up a huge chunk of our cap and could hamper the development of Sharpe. He keeps us just good enough to not get good picks but not good enough to win a ring. But you’re right that Dame gives us our best shot if we are able to put enough talent around him. I’m just not sure if that’s possible.
Which is why I’d like to trade him before it leaks he wants out. BTW, Sharpe, Clayton and if they hit on a top 5 pick, could be a nice core in a year or 2. If you think Ant is better than I do, then add him to that as well
What do you consider ‘meh’ value? I’d be fine with a few picks (including an additional 2023 pick) and a decent young building block. You also have to consider the developmental opportunity cost in terms of usage by keeping Dame. It’s a moot point because I don’t buy that he’s going to leave anytime soon.
This is what I don't understand about people saying Dame is leaving if we don't get him the vet help he wants. Dame is under contract. Even if he asks for a trade, it would have to be to a team that has a better chance of winning a title than us AND that team would have to have the pieces needed to make a fair deal for him. I'm not worried about Dame leaving at all. He has said over and over he wants to stay in Portland. In fact, he's said that more often than he's said he wants to win a title. It's not like he can leave us as a free agent.
With all my talk about Dame needing to move on, IF the team can get Siakam for our pick, Ant, Nurk and future draft considerations, then other than center that’s not a bad starting group Or maybe Detroit would give up Duren and Bogdanovic for Ant and picks? John Collins for Ant works. What else would that take to get done? Dame, Sharpe, Grant, Collins and Nurk is a good team. Not a contending team, but a good one
We won't get enough value to make us better than we can be with him. We'd have to get lucky with a pick and get a guy as good or better than Dame. And that doesn't happen nearly often enough to count on, IMO. I think what you suggested is the high end of value we'd get back. And the odds aren't high that we'd get lucky enough to land a an All Star that wants to be in Portland with one of those picks, or that th young player would choose to be.
Trading any number of combinations of players. Teams trade for picks all the time without giving up Dame caliber players.
Clayton? and no, I'd rather Ant was traded Siakam seems the most realistic target in my view. But I'm not sure how realistic considering the three years left of both Ant's and Nurk's deals. I think Nurkic may have negative value, all things considered. Ant, Nas, & Keon might be more appealing to Toronto John Collins? for some reason he fell off a cliff this season. I'd like Ant traded but I'd rather he was traded for more of a sure thing than Collins
