<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tko51)</div><div class='quotemain'>again, don't try to tell me you know more about my team - pat Williams is not getting any younger, and had fewer sacks then Edwards THIS YEAR while starting. Williams was a beast against the run, but Edwards will hold his own I'm sure, but is a better pass rusher. feel free to not post if you don't know what you're talking about - just because you're worried about facing him twice a year with your joke of an O line doesn't mean that he's as good as you say, and he's not.</div> You act as if everyone knows nothing at all about the Bills. First off is comments like feel free not to post that makes members like myself believe you are no older than a 13 year old boy. Williams is a huge lost this season. I am not really worried about facing Pat Williams. You know why and panthers can tell you that this is the truth. I love the Vikings to. Hell they are one of my favorite teams. So that arguement you are trying to process here on this forum don't work on me. Lions and Bears maybe I would be mad but I am not scared. I don't have to line up on that 300 pound monster. As for the joke of the o-line. Check back to me in September when we play a REAL GAME. Scrimmages mean nothing. I am happy for the Bills that they "beat" the Pack in the scrimmage but guess what if the Packers line is playing good in the regular season then I am happy. So don't run away from an argument by taken a shot at my team. Again it shows that you are not using proper logic in your posts. Thats all I ask for. Is for you to think things through before you post. My Dad taught me this saying and it is think before you speak. Well I am gonna pass this on to you. Please think before you type.
Williams took most of the double teams on the line last which allowed the others to get more chances, this will be a major dent in the bills defensive plans, however they do have alot of talent that could easily make up for it. I believe if Pat was still with the Bills you'd be calling him the premier run stuffer in the league.
No, I wouldn't because Sam Adams is bigger, better, and can move around just as good with olinemen on him.
attacking my 'logic' huh? that's pretty lame. what do I know huh? Any media outlet will tip their hat to Buffalo Bills fans for being among the most knowledgeable and rabid football fans the league has to offer - did you know that we're among the bottom five NFL markets just like you guys and we don't have any trouble selling our games out either? Care to count how many facts that I've posted on here? and when you guys attacked those facts, I backed them up with even more facts pointing to a reasonable foundation in the conclusion I've reached. As far as Williams taking on most of the double teams - that's pretty damn weak and once again you're starting to lead me to the conclusion that you're just posting on here for the sake of argueing with me - Schobel took on just as many if not more double teams AS A DEFENSIVE END then what Williams took on. How is his loss gonna be a major dent in our defensive plans? Edwards is faster, stronger, younger, and BIGGER then Pat Williams (not by much but still it's a FACT) and spent way more time in the offense's back field then Williams did for as much time as he was in. Actually, I'd say Kris Jenkins is the best allaround DT in the league.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tko51)</div><div class='quotemain'>attacking my 'logic' huh? that's pretty lame. what do I know huh? Any media outlet will tip their hat to Buffalo Bills fans for being among the most knowledgeable and rabid football fans the league has to offer - did you know that we're among the bottom five NFL markets just like you guys and we don't have any trouble selling our games out either? Care to count how many facts that I've posted on here? and when you guys attacked those facts, I backed them up with even more facts pointing to a reasonable foundation in the conclusion I've reached. As far as Williams taking on most of the double teams - that's pretty damn weak and once again you're starting to lead me to the conclusion that you're just posting on here for the sake of argueing with me - Schobel took on just as many if not more double teams AS A DEFENSIVE END then what Williams took on. How is his loss gonna be a major dent in our defensive plans? Edwards is faster, stronger, younger, and BIGGER then Pat Williams (not by much but still it's a FACT) and spent way more time in the offense's back field then Williams did for as much time as he was in. Actually, I'd say Kris Jenkins is the best allaround DT in the league.</div> So this is all about the Bills aren't getting noticed by the media. Is that whats this is about. your whinning is about that. you've got to be kidding me. I haven't heard the media attack Bufflo let alone talk bout them all year. Fans selling out the stadium. You almost seem jealous of the Packers there. Be proud to be a Bills fan not bashing the Packers so you can cause arguments on the internet. Outside of stats you've posted all I have heard are predictions. Predictions and facts are far from the same thing. Pat Williams is a huge lost for you. Any person in the right mind knows he was a solid run stuffer and player on your defense. Edwards is decent but he isn't as good as Pat Williams is at stopping the run. I rather have 2 DT's that can stuff the run than a pass rusher up the middle. Thats just me though.
I never took anything from Sam Adams he's a beast, Edwards is decent aswell but they wont have as many chances without a 300+ pound like Williams hogging up all the gaurds. Schoebal is a pretty good pass rush but Im not sure if he was doubled up as much as williams. WIlliams is a big loss for anyone your D-line should still be solid but it most likely will not be as good without Pat.
Bills fans have nothing on the packers fans. The packers fans are deticated to the packers forever. Soldout for a scrimmage, no other team can do that. And Green Bay is the smallest NFL city.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tko51)</div><div class='quotemain'>Care to count how many facts that I've posted on here?</div> Like the one about the Chiefs doing nothing for the past two years? Regarding Pat Williams, it is widely known that he is not a pass rusher...never really was. In fact, he has never posted more than 3.5 sacks a year since he came into the league in 1998. You see, this is a great example of how being a hometeam fan can skew your idea of how good your team is. You would like to say that losing Williams doesn't matter...in fact, it is a good thing because he isn't that good anyways. On the flip side, in the Minnesota media, the addition of Pat Williams is being praised as a great pickup to help free up Kevin Williams as the pass rusher. I guess it all depends on which colors you cheer for, right? <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'>I haven't heard the media attack Bufflo let alone talk bout them all year.</div> I think that's part of the problem...the media doesn't talk about Buffalo (at least in Buffalo fan's opinion). Most fans feel that their team doesn't get enough national coverage. The fact is, the coverage is going to go to where the action is. Right now, the Pats deserve coverage and the Eagles are going to get their fair shake as well because of the TO deal.
TKO if you are in our fanstasy league pick Losman with your 1st round pick!! You think he is gonna have a huge year, so prove to us that you are for real. If Losman does good then you will do good, if Losman does bad then you will do bad. You tell us how good he is, so why dont you pick him with a 1st round pick?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FLORIDA PACKER)</div><div class='quotemain'>I never took anything from Sam Adams he's a beast, Edwards is decent aswell but they wont have as many chances without a 300+ pound like Williams hogging up all the gaurds. Schoebal is a pretty good pass rush but Im not sure if he was doubled up as much as williams. WIlliams is a big loss for anyone your D-line should still be solid but it most likely will not be as good without Pat.</div> Didn't I just tell you that Edwards was bigger and heavier (and faster) - look it up. I think the D might have a few chemistry issues here and there starting out, but other then that we'll be fine up front.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (porky88)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tko51)</div><div class='quotemain'>attacking my 'logic' huh? that's pretty lame. what do I know huh? Any media outlet will tip their hat to Buffalo Bills fans for being among the most knowledgeable and rabid football fans the league has to offer - did you know that we're among the bottom five NFL markets just like you guys and we don't have any trouble selling our games out either? Care to count how many facts that I've posted on here? and when you guys attacked those facts, I backed them up with even more facts pointing to a reasonable foundation in the conclusion I've reached. As far as Williams taking on most of the double teams - that's pretty damn weak and once again you're starting to lead me to the conclusion that you're just posting on here for the sake of argueing with me - Schobel took on just as many if not more double teams AS A DEFENSIVE END then what Williams took on. How is his loss gonna be a major dent in our defensive plans? Edwards is faster, stronger, younger, and BIGGER then Pat Williams (not by much but still it's a FACT) and spent way more time in the offense's back field then Williams did for as much time as he was in. Actually, I'd say Kris Jenkins is the best allaround DT in the league.</div> So this is all about the Bills aren't getting noticed by the media. Is that whats this is about. your whinning is about that. you've got to be kidding me. I haven't heard the media attack Bufflo let alone talk bout them all year. Fans selling out the stadium. You almost seem jealous of the Packers there. Be proud to be a Bills fan not bashing the Packers so you can cause arguments on the internet. Outside of stats you've posted all I have heard are predictions. Predictions and facts are far from the same thing. Pat Williams is a huge lost for you. Any person in the right mind knows he was a solid run stuffer and player on your defense. Edwards is decent but he isn't as good as Pat Williams is at stopping the run. I rather have 2 DT's that can stuff the run than a pass rusher up the middle. Thats just me though.</div> I never said that Edwards is as good as Williams, but I think if he gets more playing time and more experience, he can become better given his better physical shape that more then meet the position's demands. Sam Adams is still a beast against the running game last I checked - now we've got more versatility on the D line - I'm sure Edwards will be good enough to free up our excellent Linebackers so that they can stop anyone that gets past him before they get significant yards a lot of the time. We'll still finish in the top 10 against the run and pass again and top 5 total. Stats/facts they seem pretty interchangeable to me.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (panthersare#1)</div><div class='quotemain'>TKO if you are in our fanstasy league pick Losman with your 1st round pick!! You think he is gonna have a huge year, so prove to us that you are for real. If Losman does good then you will do good, if Losman does bad then you will do bad. You tell us how good he is, so why dont you pick him with a 1st round pick?</div> I'm not gonna pick Losman with my first pick - but if you wanted me to pick a Bill with my first pick, I'll gladly take McGahee and I'd definitely take Buffalo's D.
I'm tired of hearing the media hype up teams like green bay just because Favre is on the team and Favre is a media whore - even last night - "oh Favre is determined to play one more year because he wants another shot at holding the Vince Lombardi trophy - the rest of the league better look out" bla bla bla. The Packers WILL NOT go all the way plain and simple. and one more thing, remember this - did Warner struggle? did McNabb struggle? did Brady struggle? did Roethlisberger struggle? and so on... Now look at this list did akili smith struggle? did Ryan Leaf struggle? did luke mccown struggle? did his brother struggle? You see where i'm going with this? first time NFL starting QBs that are absolutely horrible are usually a fair indication of how their careers are going to be. Where as if a QB is gonna be solid to good to a perrenial probowler they frequently put together a solid first year starting. notice the second list was nothing but busts, the first list was all solid QBs that didn't struggle (I believe there is a difference between making mistakes even frequent mistakes and struggling). I am willing to say that Losman will after this year fit on the first list.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tko51)</div><div class='quotemain'>I'm tired of hearing the media hype up teams like green bay just because Favre is on the team and Favre is a media whore - even last night - "oh Favre is determined to play one more year because he wants another shot at holding the Vince Lombardi trophy - the rest of the league better look out" bla bla bla. The Packers WILL NOT go all the way plain and simple. </div> ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Hype the Packers are getting harassed by the media. Most people have them 3rd in the North some last. I don't know what your hearing from where you live but I live in Green Bay and there are people who don't think the Pack are gonna be good this year. So all this hype Green Bay is getting where is it. I would like to read it because all I've heard are the Lions and Vikings are better and the Bears are as good maybe better and this season the Packers won't make the playoffs. I think 80% of the sports media have the Packers finishing at 8-8 or lower. Just last night on PTI Mike Wilbon said 8-8 and some other guy said lower than that. So the Packers by no means are a hyped up team for the 2005 season. WOW.......
That simply is not true...you are finding players to match your claim, but there are enough players that go against your claim. First of all, how can you talk about Roethlisberger being a solid QB...how can we tell? They guy has played just ONE season! Kurt Warner was also added to your list...he is a different QB. He came into the league much later in his career, and many would say that he is not that good of a QB (ask some Giants fans). Now on to the real debunking of your theory... Troy Aikman - First year in the league he went 1 - 15. He became one of the most dominant QB's of all time. According to your theory, he should have been washed up by year 2. John Elway - His first year stats looked like this: Completion % - 47.5% Y/A - 6.4 TD - 7 INT - 14 Again...horrible start. He should have been done after year one. Year two was a bit better, but not by much. Elway, as you know, developed into one of the greatest QB's of all time. Peyton Manning - We all know what type of player he is 56.7 Comp % 6.5 Y/A 26 TD 28 INT Donovan McNabb You say he didn't struggle...however....in 12 games 49% completion 4.4 Y/A 8 TD 7 INT Hardly big numbers. Then you have peole like Jeff George who had decent rookie seasons and never did very much. Simply put, your theory is just plain wrong.
Oh...I almost forgot Tim Couch: 55.9 Comp % 6.1 Y/A 15 TD 13 INT He never had better numbers than his rookie year.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vikingfan)</div><div class='quotemain'>Donovan McNabb You say he didn't struggle...however....in 12 games 49% completion 4.4 Y/A 8 TD 7 INT Hardly big numbers. Then you have peole like Jeff George who had decent rookie seasons and never did very much. Simply put, your theory is just plain wrong.</div> You beat me to this one...Mcnabb played in 12 games and they finished 5-11...I'd say he struggled.
Well the idea that you can tell the talent of a QB by his first year is simply unreasonable. The only QB that I know of that really lived up to his 1st year hype was Dan Marino, and he was an exception to nearly every rule.
OK, so Donovan McNabb struggled. I'd gladly take Peyton Manning's stats for Losman regardless of if he threw 28 INTs - two more then TD passes. As for Aikman - he didn't have the weapons of Smith and Irvin in his rookie year did he? Dallas was rebuilding and that was at the time when it took years to rebuild your team unlike today (actually more like 5 years ago when we were seeing teams go from 5-11 or worse to more then ten wins the next season). The league is a lot different now then what it was back when Elway, Aikman were coming into the league - if JP didn't have the weapons he has now, I'd say the jury was still out on him until we got him a RB and some viable recievers. When did Elway ever have a team around him up until his superbowl years and just before when he had Terrell Davis and Rod Smith (remember when the Broncos were putting up the best record in the NFL for the few years before the superbowls)?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tko51)</div><div class='quotemain'>OK, so Donovan McNabb struggled. I'd gladly take Peyton Manning's stats for Losman regardless of if he threw 28 INTs - two more then TD passes. As for Aikman - he didn't have the weapons of Smith and Irvin in his rookie year did he? Dallas was rebuilding and that was at the time when it took years to rebuild your team unlike today (actually more like 5 years ago when we were seeing teams go from 5-11 or worse to more then ten wins the next season). The league is a lot different now then what it was back when Elway, Aikman were coming into the league - if JP didn't have the weapons he has now, I'd say the jury was still out on him until we got him a RB and some viable recievers. When did Elway ever have a team around him up until his superbowl years and just before when he had Terrell Davis and Rod Smith (remember when the Broncos were putting up the best record in the NFL for the few years before the superbowls)?</div> Alright...you convinced me...I BILLIEVE :cheesey:
