Warriors vs. Pacers @ Oakland, Jan. 5, 7:30PM TNT

Well they just embarrassed themselves on Nat TV.

The 11+ years of suck continues.

 

Man, that was very disappointing. I dont get to watch many games so this sucks...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting philsmith75:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes I'll remember my words because in the long run, maybe not this month or even the end of the year, but two or three years from now, the Warriors will be better off than today.</div>

They will be better in two or three years from now because Monty will have been replaced and Dunleavy traded

 

^ Funny pic.

Well like quote from movie Jarhead : " Welcome to suck "

I look Diogu minutes, and have a feeling that Warriors are showing merchendise.

 

Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. We lost to a team, who's going through 2nd night of back to back games from Denver, and they didn't even have O'neal. In other hand, this is one of the must win game for Jan, and in a sense, this game was an audition for Artest trade. BTW, we are at home, and in front of national TV. I am getting tired of this first quarter disaster. I mean, it has been more than 10 games that we came out from the game absolutely flat and dig gigantic hole in first quarter. What are they exactly doing before the game start? This is the game we should have blown out, and it turned out to be the most disgusting game I ever watched in this season. Yeah, I tried to keep positive toward Monty, but this 10+ games of absolute flat first quarter are just inexcusable...

 

They should feed Diogu early in the first qtr to get high % pts and to get the opponents frontline some early fouls. That would help.

 

With Diogu starting and Murphy injured, Diogu is going to see major minutes while putting up great numbers. His fantasy value has just risen very high.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm starting to fall out of favor with Monty. I don't know what he's doing. He's playing musselman small ball only worse. I don't know how patient we have to be with this coach, especially when the big men are all rookies.</div>


ahhh you've seen the light.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting philsmith75:</div><div class="quote_post">You guys who have no faith in Montgomery remember your words at the end of the year. Who else would you rather have? Don Chaney? A Van Gundy? Its not that easy to coach in the NBA. Monty is making progress.

The thought seems to be anyone will do a better job. Well you can point out some points of improvement but you are going to lose the things that he's improved the Warriors.

If you have played any BB you should know that you do not just roll the balls out there and the best athletes will win.</div>

You're missing the point, this team has stopped listening to him. Although it doesn't happen in high school or college, unfortunately it does happen in the NBA. Last year I wanted him out, now I just feel bad for the guy. He left his perfect situation at Stanford to get to this. Those bags under his eyes look bad.

 

I usually don't bash the coach, and I certainly never bash the coach because of the substution pattern or not playing younger guys, because throughout every sports, almost all fans are never happy about sub patterns and always wish coaches to bench veterans and play younger guys. Also, almost every fans seem to believe if good thing happens, it's because of players and if bad thing happens, it's because of coach. That's why I always judge the coach with end result. However, even for me, Monty is starting to make me worry. Starting from December, we always had this horrendous 1st quarter for some reason. I mean, this isn't just a bad quarter, but we are literary allowing other teams to shoot above 60% fg every single game, and for rest of 3 quarters, we are doing catch ups. 1 game? No problem. 1 week? It can happen. But, it has been a month and the problem still continues. It really looks like we are watching the day and the night, and at some point, Monty needs to do something to correct this serious problem. Players are starting to play like they have given up playing for a coach or something, and I have no idea how Muss could extract so many energy from supposely disgruntled players, while our current players come out from the gate like they just had 3 straight parties and have no energy to play basketball. If this problem continues, even I have to believe that there is something wrong between coach and players...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Muss is overrated, Monty is still a rookie coach and the players don't seem to play organized. I think it's both sides that are having problems. Nobody moves off the ball and people aren't spreading the floor. I blame the guy who isn't making good decisions with the ball or isn't spacing the floor. Who isn't moving their feet? I'm not talking about this particular game though. It's like since we've struggled. Teams just figure us out already.

Also players are probably bothered by trade rumors so maybe the shots aren't coming down because of lack of confidence or pressure to perform?

BTW nice comeback. We're turning the ball over, not getting the defensive rebounds, and missing shots from the foul line, but we're in single digit deficits at least. Diogu and Baron Davis had some energizing plays. Baron Davis with the drive down the lane for the two handed flush and Ike Diogu with several putbacks, lay-ins, rebounds, and hustle plays.</div>

I don't agree that Musselman was overrated at all. And why is it that all of a sudden the coach gets so many excuses from the Warriors' fans now? Under Musselman, the coach didn't get away with anything. Not playing Dunleavy enough. Playing the vets too much. And I forget the other reasons why the fans didn't like Musselman. But anyway, Musselman too was a rookie head coach. If you consider that being a second year head coach as being a rookie head coach.

With Musselman, the team was much more prepared for games, much more into the games, and Musselman got so much better bench production and used much better rotations than Montgomery, it's not even worth spending the time comparing. If you weren't productive on the court under Musselman than you were taken out, simple as that. If you are unproductive under Montgomery, Mike just waits until the end of the game and comments how the players on the court didn't seem into the game. Anyway, Musselman with the Warriors is old news. As for Montgomery, I sure hope something happens. I mean his comments after the game make me wonder if he is actually this team's coach or just a fan sitting courtside. He doesn't know what to do, and the players don't know what to do. Maybe management will find something to do for the coaches and players then, I don't know.

 

I'm not giving up on Monty yet. I'm just mad that he's resorting to some weird ass subbing patterns and going small. It's the players and the team play that's still not getting things done and almost all head coaches have a thing about not playing rookies no matter how many flashes of brilliance they have. Look at Larry Brown.

I still think we have an imperfect lineup that's way too soft, way too static, and not that big. Also, when we lack a true center and the fact Murphy is a horrible defender, it puts more strain on the guys we rely on to score the ball and play defense on their own guy. Right now only guys that play defense are everybody else but Murphy. He's that bad. All the other team has to do is run around behind screens and Murphy gets lost so bad. It's even worse when Baron is inside as the last man back or Dunleavy has to run and cover and get a blocking foul. I really hope we can get out from under Murphy's contract, because he's a blackhole type of player in the mold of Antwan Jamison. He's all numbers. I used to like him, but he's reached his ceiling. He's just not turning out like I hoped. Plus, I'm with Cohanhater that he's probably ruining Mike Dunleavy's style of perimeter game. When Murphy went out today, Mike did a few things that he never does like drive and dunk the ball.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Clif25:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't agree that Musselman was overrated at all. And why is it that all of a sudden the coach gets so many excuses from the Warriors' fans now? Under Musselman, the coach didn't get away with anything. Not playing Dunleavy enough. Playing the vets too much. And I forget the other reasons why the fans didn't like Musselman. But anyway, Musselman too was a rookie head coach. If you consider that being a second year head coach as being a rookie head coach.

With Musselman, the team was much more prepared for games, much more into the games, and Musselman got so much better bench production and used much better rotations than Montgomery, it's not even worth spending the time comparing. If you weren't productive on the court under Musselman than you were taken out, simple as that. If you are unproductive under Montgomery, Mike just waits until the end of the game and comments how the players on the court didn't seem into the game. Anyway, Musselman with the Warriors is old news. As for Montgomery, I sure hope something happens. I mean his comments after the game make me wonder if he is actually this team's coach or just a fan sitting courtside. He doesn't know what to do, and the players don't know what to do. Maybe management will find something to do for the coaches and players then, I don't know.</div>
Musselman never had a system. His passing and cutting open offense was so predictable that veteran nba players wouldn't buy into it and it's why we got killed after halftime or at least ended up losing. Montgomery's got a system, but the players are'nt buying into it. If they aren't, what style will the Warriors play? They have to find identity. With Musselman they still had no identity. Now the Warriors can go run up and down, but it's not good ball and they still have no big men inside that's going to be proven. Any big men we have needs to understand a system to get open so that he can score. Can't expect Baron Davis to create everything. The whole team needs to be moving and they need to be organized. We can run all we want, but it's just going to stop working and we'll never be consistent playing that way. Not unless we get more athletic somehow and push the ball before the defenses get set. Last we checked, we're not that fast nor athletic as the Suns. Also we fail to move the ball inside first before the ball goes back outside. You need ball movement and some inside presence. If we lack that inside talent we're forced to use screens and quick shots which sucks because we have no rebounders for the perimeter based game!

 

These dudes are pros,in theory a bunch of great shooters and men who have played this game since they were babies. They need to execute,to MAKE the damn shots,fight for boards,sweat on D,run like hell,and fer crissake....feed the BEAST! These are not children,they make obscene amounts of money for a part time job and part of the job is to listen to the damn coach,whether its Monty or Muss,or Red Freakin' Auerbach,or Pee wee Herman

That said,what is the deal with small ball? The Warriors have a history of playing small ball,and it carries over,every coach since Nellie.....
Sure,small ball works-sometimes,but you can't rely on it. That is a gripe I have with Monty...and the last 6 coaches here, Coaches go small because most small and midsize guys are fairly skilled,or they would not be in the league. Big men are often less polished,less predictable and need to be taught-then to be played EVEN IF THEY SUCK. For a mediocre team to improve,EVERYONE needs his talents elevated to their limits. You learn the fine details by playing. I thought Monty had seen that,for awhile he WAS playing the whole roster,but he's slipped back to the comfort zone just as the players have,settling for 3's,going at 3/4 speed.

Okay,it's a long season. Nobody can be focused and fresh every game but the winners don't have many bad games. Baron gets plenty of credit when things go good...he can have a share of the blame when things go wrong. Baron can be creative,but this ain't figure skating,no style points if the ball don't go in the hole

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Musselman never had a system. His passing and cutting open offense was so predictable that veteran nba players wouldn't buy into it and it's why we got killed after halftime or at least ended up losing. Montgomery's got a system, but the players are'nt buying into it. If they aren't, what style will the Warriors play? They have to find identity. With Musselman they still had no identity. Now the Warriors can go run up and down, but it's not good ball and they still have no big men inside that's going to be proven. Any big men we have needs to understand a system to get open so that he can score. Can't expect Baron Davis to create everything. The whole team needs to be moving and they need to be organized. We can run all we want, but it's just going to stop working and we'll never be consistent playing that way. Not unless we get more athletic somehow and push the ball before the defenses get set. Last we checked, we're not that fast nor athletic as the Suns. Also we fail to move the ball inside first before the ball goes back outside. You need ball movement and some inside presence. If we lack that inside talent we're forced to use screens and quick shots which sucks because we have no rebounders for the perimeter based game!</div>

I feel bad to continue to talk about Musselman and his time as a Warrior's head coach, because it's all history now. I will say though, that I am not sure if people remember the rosters that Musselman was given. His first season began with a lot of question marks and a lot of young players and even a young coach, and it ended up being one of the most promising seasons the Warriors had in many years, with players like Murphy and Arenas being tops for the Most Improved Award. The next season Muss was given a new roster that was changed completely, with his two most relied options gone, and with spots filled in with the addition of many vets(the legit MVP of that roster was Brian Cardinal, I think that says a lot). Muss' offensive system was not concrete or put so much into x's and o's(all the time), though I actually believe his offensive system was mostly affective with the rosters he had(though his offensive system of course was altered between the two seasons because of roster movements). But I would say that his sub-rotation was very good(often questioned but mostly very productive) and what he was able to get from his bench was fantastic, and if we had a coach like Montgomery(no bench production), then the last draft the Warriors would have had the first pick in the draft.

To talk about more relavant topics about the present and the future. You comment about how Montgomery has a system. However the rest of the post comments about how the system is ineffective. This seems to have been a concern with the team since December. This seems to be a problem. And I don't mean a small problem either.

 

Do we give up on a coach in less than 1.5 years? How many head coaches are we going to have? Its not like there are any proven head coaches out there right now anyways...

I am just mad that they are not posting up Diogu and running the offense through him like you would if you had somebody like Shaq on the team. I mean this kid is a beast. He has heart and he was yelling for the ball. I think he should be the #1 offensive option. It will open up so much for Baron and Jrich. Did anyone notice how much smoother the points came when they gave Ike the ball down low. I love this kid. He is the real deal...

 

I would agree that Musselman had a bit more fire than Montgomery. If you remember, he almost brought the W's to .500 in his last year with the W's with a roster much less impressive than the one we have now. That said, I think he was not the right fit for the W's. Adding to that, I don't know if Montgomery is the right fit for the W's, but I would give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

The weak starts are Monty's fault? How easy is it to draw that conclusion? Come on folks, you obviously love the Warriors and are passionate about them, let's look at the hard questions.

Its the players, plain and simple. If nothing else, Monty has been consistent in the starting lineup and given the players a chance to prove themselves. That's usually what players crave, the certainty/comfort level of knowing what their roles are and when they will likely play. Yes there have been some tweaks here and there but its been pretty consistent with the exception of the minor role players, Zarko, Cheaney, etc. You do not see Baron or JRich getting benched "to send a message."

Bad starts? Yes the offense is suffering but what is the real problem? The Warriors are getting absolutely torched! By middling offensive teams. Pacers? Grizzlies? Defense is not about talent or scheme, its about commitment and effort. That's not motivation by the coach, that's about individual pride and its not there. At the beginning of the year, we saw surprising D so Monty can motivate; its the players' fault.

If the players are going to tune out the coach less than halfway into the season, well I'd say its time to tune the players out not the coach.