<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Take Boston Celtics guard Paul Pierce off the prospective 2007 free-agent board for the Magic. Pierce has agreed to a three-year, $60 million extension with the Celts (and who in his right mind wouldn't?). Turns out, my spies say the Magic would not have made a bid on Pierce. Look for them to show love for New Jersey Nets forward Vince Carter or Dallas Mavericks forward Josh Howard next summer.</div> Source Cmon Josh!
Haha, that is all you guys need is that SF spot completed. I don't like Hedu and if you were to get Josh Howard, this team would be loaded with young talent.
I think we are still trying to figure out the SG position. Josh Howard would likely be able to play SG and still start Hedo at SF. Hedo is very underrated in what he does, but for some reason not many people like him. I guarantee you that Howard will not be a FA next year. Cuban will do whatever it takes to lock him up. With that said, I would pass on VC for the max. Even though he hasn't had injury problems recently, those things just don't go away forever, so with our history with Grant Hill. Also Dwight Howard is the future, he will be the man. Can VC play with someone else being the man? Also he is getting old for NBA standards and will start declining. Do we really want to max out a declining ball hog superstar that doesn't play much defense? (a little harsh, I know, but also pretty true) I say ball hog because last year our leading shot taker had around 12 shots, while VC avg close to 20 shots a game last year. Would he be able to spread the ball around. I would either just try to trade Grant Hill at the deadline or get 2 backup role players with the money.
Would you be interested in Carter if he accepted less than the max and took a smaller role on the team?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Swish15:</div><div class="quote_post">Would you be interested in Carter if he accepted less than the max and took a smaller role on the team?</div> He wouldn't accept the smaller role. He's got too big of an ego. He would love to come to Orlando though. I wouldn't be against giving him the max for 1-3 years, but the max contract for 4-6 years I would oppose big time. He's a great individual player, but we are based on balance, so a superstar like VC would not fit in Orlando, IMO. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">^^ why would he need a smaller role. You guys need a leading scorer correct?</div> I answered it here, but I will say it again.... <div class="quote_poster">Quoting GatorsowntheNCAA:</div><div class="quote_post"> With that said, I would pass on VC for the max. Even though he hasn't had injury problems recently, those things just don't go away forever, so with our history with Grant Hill. Also Dwight Howard is the future, he will be the man. Can VC play with someone else being the man? Also he is getting old for NBA standards and will start declining. Do we really want to max out a declining ball hog superstar that doesn't play much defense? (a little harsh, I know, but also pretty true) I say ball hog because last year our leading shot taker had around 12 shots, while VC avg close to 20 shots a game last year. Would he be able to spread the ball around? I would either just try to trade Grant Hill at the deadline or get 2 backup role players with the money.</div> No we don't. We are a team that has developed great chemistry(similar to the Gators) and we have 5-6 players that get in the 8-12 shot range. It's so dangerous to try to guard us, because you never know who's going to be shooting the ball, because we can hurt you everywhere. Also Dwight Howard is the man on this team. He will be the dominating #1 scorer in 2 years. Our offense doesn't thrive on someone who takes the majority of the shots and puts up 25-30 ppg. We rely on balance.
If anything we have learned that the teams who have a balanced attack (Pistons, Spurs, etc.) are the ones who are winning in the NBA these days. Even the Heat had balance. Dwyane Wade didn't do everything for that team and without Shaq, who knows how far they would have gotten. I think Dwight should have the most PPG on our team but we need more than one weapon so I want Josh Howard more than VC.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Dwight Howard will be our leading scorer. </div> Even though VC is 28 or 29, he is still a FAR superior scorer to Dwight Howard. I think DW and VC would make a deadly combo. Along with Jameer? Wooh, I wouldn't wanna mess with that kinda lineup, that's a dangerous lineup. I really think you're underrating VC...when he's on, his offensive game is second only to Kobe in my opinion. He's much more potent of a scorer then even T-Mac. Furthermore, he's not as horrendous on defense as many people make it seem. When he puts forth the effort, he is actually an above-average defender. However, Carter's problems lies in the fact that he is very lethargic when it comes to defense and unless it's an individual matchup that has the fans excited (ala when he was isolated against Jordan one-on-one in 2002 or a couple of times against Kobe/T-Mac), he won't put all of his effort into it. But when it REALLY counts, like down the stretch of games, Carter will be there in terms of defense and rebounding....don't underestimate him, I think he'd be a great addition to your team and not to mention he is a VERY underrated passer. Dwight would benefit from his prescence more then you're assuming.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting spawn:</div><div class="quote_post">Even though VC is 28 or 29, he is still a FAR superior scorer to Dwight Howard. I think DW and VC would make a deadly combo. Along with Jameer? Wooh, I wouldn't wanna mess with that kinda lineup, that's a dangerous lineup.</div> We know he is a good scorer but that's not what we need. We want a balanced team that has multiple options. Teams with one main scorer aren't fairing too well these days. Just look at the Sixers with Iverson, the TWolves KG, and the Celtics with Paul Pierce. The last thing I want the Magic to become is a team with an all-star but with a losing season after losing season. The Pistons, Spurs, and teams with balance are dominating the league right now so we should shape our team after them. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting spawn:</div><div class="quote_post">I really think you're underrating VC...when he's on, his offensive game is second only to Kobe in my opinion. He's much more potent of a scorer then even T-Mac. Furthermore, he's not as horrendous on defense as many people make it seem. When he puts forth the effort, he is actually an above-average defender.</div> I'm not questioning his offensive game. I just don't like the fact that he needs the ball in his hands to make an impact in the game and I don't feel that's what our team needs right now. I want someone who can play defense, is always hustling (we know what happend in Toronto) and who knows his role on the team. This perfectly describes Josh Howard, someone who I feel we should pursue more than Carter. Vince can throw down some nasty dunks and he is very athletic but will he still be able to do these things when he is over thirty years old? <div class="quote_poster">Quoting spawn:</div><div class="quote_post">However, Carter's problems lies in the fact that he is very lethargic when it comes to defense and unless it's an individual matchup that has the fans excited (ala when he was isolated against Jordan one-on-one in 2002 or a couple of times against Kobe/T-Mac), he won't put all of his effort into it. But when it REALLY counts, like down the stretch of games, Carter will be there in terms of defense and rebounding....don't underestimate him, I think he'd be a great addition to your team and not to mention he is a VERY underrated passer. </div> This isn't good for the Magic. If we have Jameer Nelson and either J.J. Redick or Hedo Turkoglu starting along side of him, that is a terrible defensive unit. All of our defense will be in the paint and the opposing players would always drive into the lane (which could cause foul trouble for Darko and Dwight). I don't want someone who is only there when it really counts. I want someone who is always there contributing. Here is the main reason I think the Magic want Vince. He would draw tons of fans. Vince is a crowd pleaser with his incredible dunks and athleticism so no doubt our ticket sales along with our merchandise sales would rise rapidly. He is a perenial All-Star who is voted in by the fans because everyone wants to see him do something crazy on the court. The casual fan is happier when their team has a superstar than when they play a team game. Just look at the Spurs-Pistons TV ratings from two years ago. If the Magic got VC, they would have their superstar and would make more money. I still want Josh Howard.
Josh Howard fits our team better than Vince IMO, He brings a little bit of everything. He can score, Rebound, Defend, Pass and he can handle the ball. Plus we will be able to give him less money than Carter so we can still sign another role player.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">With that said, I would pass on VC for the max. Even though he hasn't had injury problems recently, those things just don't go away forever, so with our history with Grant Hill. Also Dwight Howard is the future, he will be the man. Can VC play with someone else being the man? Also he is getting old for NBA standards and will start declining. Do we really want to max out a declining ball hog superstar that doesn't play much defense? (a little harsh, I know, but also pretty true) I say ball hog because last year our leading shot taker had around 12 shots, while VC avg close to 20 shots a game last year</div> Basically everything you just said is untrue. Yes, VC has had injury problems recently, but which ones have been major? He hasn't had one since '02, excluding the freak acciden with Bowen. His main concerns have been his knees and and he has no injury to them in a while. His injuries are really not comparable to Grants in terms of how serious they were. Since when is VC a ball hog? He's very unselfish, and a very good passer and likes creating for his teammates. The reason he took 19* shots a year last year is because he's one of the best scorers and shooters in the league. Plus you're basing your opinion on stats which is unfair because you'd have a totally different opinion if you watced him. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting GatorsowntheNCAA:</div><div class="quote_post">He wouldn't accept the smaller role. He's got too big of an ego. He would love to come to Orlando though. I wouldn't be against giving him the max for 1-3 years, but the max contract for 4-6 years I would oppose big time. He's a great individual player, but we are based on balance, so a superstar like VC would not fit in Orlando, IMO. </div> I don't know where you're getting that. If anything that's ideally what Vince would like. He's even accepted a role in NJ where he's not the franchise player, and look at what he's done. Vince wants to win, so he'll look for the best scenerio for him to win and play a big role in as well. With the contract Pierce got recently, it's possible that he may be wanting the same thing. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Just look at the Sixers with Iverson, the TWolves KG, and the Celtics with Paul Pierce. The last thing I want the Magic to become is a team with an all-star but with a losing season after losing season. The Pistons, Spurs, and teams with balance are dominating the league right now so we should shape our team after them.</div> Yes but are you forgetting the Nets and their sucess of the past 2 season with Carter? Without any legit scorer. They have Jason Kidd and RJ which is a big factor. But there's no reason to suggest why the Magic wouldn't be succesful with a balance of a dominating post player, a rising distrubuting PG, and an unseflish very good scorer.
Howard is a for sure go after, but as mentioned I don't think he will get a chance to test the market. Vince Carter. Ugh.. I wouldn't want a guy that quit on his team. I don't care how much he has rebounded in New Jersey.
Vince just doesn't seem like he would fit this team, I would much rather have Howard and another player for the same money
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting P.A.P.:</div><div class="quote_post">Basically everything you just said is untrue. Yes, VC has had injury problems recently, but which ones have been major? He hasn't had one since '02, excluding the freak acciden with Bowen. His main concerns have been his knees and and he has no injury to them in a while. His injuries are really not comparable to Grants in terms of how serious they were.</div> I think he is just talking about his past injuries. Why sign the guy who is getting older and has a history of serious injuries if a young healthy Howard is available? It's not something we want to deal with because the last time we offered a huge contract to a player who has a past with injuries it ended up haunting us (Grant Hill like you said). While the injuries may not have been as serious, it is still a concern and something that makes me nervous. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting P.A.P.:</div><div class="quote_post">Since when is VC a ball hog? He's very unselfish, and a very good passer and likes creating for his teammates. The reason he took 19* shots a year last year is because he's one of the best scorers and shooters in the league. Plus you're basing your opinion on stats which is unfair because you'd have a totally different opinion if you watced him.</div> He isn't a ballhog as much as he is someone who needs the ball to make an impact on the game. He needs a lot of shots and with our balanced team, we don't need someone shooting that many times. Also, if anyone should be getting a lot of shots it's Dwight Howard since by then he would be one of the top big men in the East (and possibly in the entire NBA). <div class="quote_poster">Quoting P.A.P.:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes but are you forgetting the Nets and their sucess of the past 2 season with Carter? Without any legit scorer. They have Jason Kidd and RJ which is a big factor. But there's no reason to suggest why the Magic wouldn't be succesful with a balance of a dominating post player, a rising distrubuting PG, and an unseflish very good scorer.</div> First of all, Jefferson and Kidd contributed a lot to their success like you said so I wouldn't use them as an example of what I was talking about. I was referring to the teams like the Sixers, Cavaliers, and Celtics who rely on one player. Also, how come you said earlier in your post that Carter wasn't the franchise player, yet you are giving him the most credit for the team's success? It seems like the franchise player on the Nets (I'm assuming your talking about Kidd), should be given the majority of the credit. Finally, Jameer Nelson isn't a distributing point guard. He is a scorer first, and a passer second.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Swish15:</div><div class="quote_post">I think he is just talking about his past injuries. Why sign the guy who is getting older and has a history of serious injuries if a young healthy Howard is available? It's not something we want to deal with because the last time we offered a huge contract to a player who has a past with injuries it ended up haunting us (Grant Hill like you said). While the injuries may not have been as serious, it is still a concern and something that makes me nervous..</div> If I were the magic, I would take Howard too. However, the comment on VC seemed more like a bashing towards him and his character on the court than why the Magic should persure Howard over Carter. Why aren't you concerned with Howard though? He's had some pretty bad injuries too you know. Carters serious injuries are past him while Howard has had some since his career has started. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">First of all, Jefferson and Kidd contributed a lot to their success like you said so I wouldn't use them as an example of what I was talking about. I was referring to the teams like the Sixers, Cavaliers, and Celtics who rely on one player. Also, how come you said earlier in your post that Carter wasn't the franchise player, yet you are giving him the most credit for the team's success? It seems like the franchise player on the Nets (I'm assuming your talking about Kidd), should be given the majority of the credit. Finally, Jameer Nelson isn't a distributing point guard. He is a scorer first, and a passer second.</div> So why bring up the other players? We're talkingabout Vince Carter and the Magic not KG and the Wolves or whoever. I also did mention that Kidd and Jefferson had a verybig factor in the sucess so I'm not giving all credit to Carter. Kidd deserves thealot credit for what he does everynight on the court and for bringing Carter back to his star status and takes pressure off him. Without any of the Nets players they wouldn't have the sucess they have, but I'm saying that Vince Carter has helped turn the Nets around because he was the missing piece to the puzzle that turned them into back to a top team. He could be the same in Orlando that helps turn into a legit team as they improve.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting P.A.P.:</div><div class="quote_post">If I were the magic, I would take Howard too. However, the comment on VC seemed more like a bashing towards him and his character on the court than why the Magic should persure Howard over Carter. Why aren't you concerned with Howard though? He's had some pretty bad injuries too you know. Carters serious injuries are past him while Howard has had some since his career has started.</div> Whenever I think of Vince Carter, one image pops into my mind. The picture of him laying on the court wincing and grabbing his leg. That's because he is known as one of the most injury prone players in the league and even if he has been healthy for a little bit, it's hard to shed that reputation. Howard's injuries weren't as bad as Vince Carter's were and he is still young so it's not like his body is slowing down. As Carter gets older, his body might not be able to hold up. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting P.A.P.:</div><div class="quote_post">So why bring up the other players? We're talkingabout Vince Carter and the Magic not KG and the Wolves or whoever. I also did mention that Kidd and Jefferson had a verybig factor in the sucess so I'm not giving all credit to Carter. Kidd deserves thealot credit for what he does everynight on the court and for bringing Carter back to his star status and takes pressure off him. Without any of the Nets players they wouldn't have the sucess they have, but I'm saying that Vince Carter has helped turn the Nets around because he was the missing piece to the puzzle that turned them into back to a top team. He could be the same in Orlando that helps turn into a legit team as they improve.</div> I'm bringing up the players like Garnett, Iverson and Pierce because their teams have chosen to build around an All-Star rather than have a balanced team that spreads it's shots around. I don't want that to happen with us. If we pick up Vince Carter, chances are he gets most of the shots and takes away the balence that us Magic fans want our team to have. I know that you gave credit to Kidd and Jefferson which is why I said "like you said" towards the end of that sentence. I respect Vince but I just don't think he is the perfect fit for the Magic. We need to fill our team with players that can make Dwight Howard and Jameer Nelson better. They are our core and we need to surround them with talent that improves their game. I don't want a superstar in 2007. I want a few role players that make us into a Spurs type of team with Dwight playing the Duncan role and Jameer playing the Parker role. We just need to get some more role players who can contribute both offensivley and defensively.
I think VC would make them instant contenders. He gives them that one go to guy who they can go to in crunch time or someone to take on the scoring load. I think he and Dwight would take a lot of pressure off of each other. I would love to see him in Orlando and they would be very fun to watch with Jameer, Dwight, and VC.
I think by the time VC gets here if he does u could play a role similar to what stackhouse was with Dallas. Be the focal point when dwight isnt getting good looks or when the ball isnt moving well. Stackhouse was a key reason they got as far as they did and if VC could be somewhat of that type of player I would love to have him. With every year that goes by he will get slower and weaker, so a chance to be a role player type would be a very good fit at the same time he can still take over games when needed. That just my two cents.
The best fit would be Josh Howard. The 2 howards would dominant J'Howard knows defense as well as his role. The Magic are on of the best balanced attacks of any team in the NBA now. Their whole bench and starters can all drop 10-18 on you at any given moment so even if 1 doesn't show, 2 more will shine to help that slump.
