<div class="quote_poster">C.K. Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It wasn't because Bargnani was soft being that I wasn't a fan of his, just because the way he (and European / Asian basketball in general) approaches the game. I'm a huge college fan, so naturally I'm going to favor the players such as Al Horford, Joakim Noah, Roy Hibbert, Jeff Green, Corey Brewer, Nick Young, Greg Oden, Derrick Byars, Acie Law, Chase Budinger, and Al Thornton over the rest of the pack. If you're looking for somebody to bring in to make or break your franchise (talking about millions of dollars here), then wouldn't it make SO MUCH more sense to bring in a player that physically dominated on the college level? To me it's so obvious it's almost ridiculous. Lets not forget, Pau Gasol came into the draft in 2001 as a "Small Forward / Power Forward", next thing you know he's being regarded as one of the softest post guys in the league. 2001 is a prime example. Guys like Kwame Brown, Tyson Chandler, DeSagana Diop, and Kedrick Brown were considered the "more talented" players over guys like Shane Battier, Jason Richardson, Richard Jefferson, Joe Johnson, and Zach Randolph, who all showed it on America's soil against the second tier league in the NCAA. Don't even bring up the Olympics or Summer Games or whatever. Honestly, I care nothing for whom FC Barcelona plays tomorrow in basketball, or what the Guangdong Tigers' record is. Does it really matter what and who those kids are playing against? I can care less. Talk to me when Yi Jianlian, or who ever's bandwagon we're going to jump on next, goes up against Greg Oden, Joakim Noah, Roy Hibbert, or a well coached defensive minded team such as Michigan State, North Carolina, Duke, or Wisconsin. Hell, give me Alando Tucker or DJ White over Jianlian. At least I've seen Tucker and White go to work in the post against some of the Big 10's finest defenders. When I put millions of dollars into a prospect, not to mention my job, my coaches job, and other players' jobs, I want to make sure that I've seen this kid go against NBA-like competition. Just by glancing over this Chinese league, there's probably one other NBA-caliber player--and that's being generous. I'll give the Raptors coaching staff a load of credit, turning Bargnani into the player that he is today, because the common style of play overseas, at least that I've seen, is a soft style of play that I like not one bit. This post wasn't directed toward Chutney, but I've seen a number of different members across the board that favor Yi Jianlian, where it simply doesn't make sense to me. For all I care, maybe I'll be completely wrong; but I sure don't want to be that GM that wastes the 3rd pick in the draft on somebody we'll see in the NBDL one day and say to ourselves, "Man that kid had so much potential." With a late first or second-round pick, sure, I'll roll the dice a little bit; but we're talking about trying to build a franchise around this guy. That being said, Philadelphia does not need somebody that we'll have to take a huge gamble on. Andre Iguodala isn't going to be around forever, and we need to surround him with quality talent ASAP. This would probably mean favoring a guy like Joakim Noah or Jeff Green over some dude from Europe that scouts get to see in person maybe once a year.</div> Well, you're generalizing international basketball first of all. I watch it all the time and the players aren't soft. I think a lot of the time people mistake versatility and finesse for softness when it couldn't be farther from the truth. Euro basketball has just as much post play as American ball and, the fact that they get have crappier reffing, means they players get away with a lot more (no questionable calls because you play for a well-known university). If you want a good example of a player who showcases that, just look at Andris Biedrins. And as for the competition, to be frank, the talent is much better than in the NCAA level. Not only do you have the players born and bred in Europe/South America/Africa, but you have former college standouts who were drafted and couldn't make it in the league. Furthermore, there's no age limit. That's why when you see a player like Yi or Bargnani playing well overseas its not worth dismissing off the bat like that. They have to face tougher, older, and more experienced competition, but they also have to beat out teammates like that for regular minutes (Euro teams usually stash young players on their bench in favour of veterans). So say what you want about it, but I'm personally more impressed with these international kids consistently more experienced talent than I am by Greg Oden dominating a bunch of 6'7" freshmen that won't even make it on a European team.
<div class="quote_poster">Chutney Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Well, you're generalizing international basketball first of all. I watch it all the time and the players aren't soft. I think a lot of the time people mistake versatility and finesse for softness when it couldn't be farther from the truth. Euro basketball has just as much post play as American ball and, the fact that they get have crappier reffing, means they players get away with a lot more (no questionable calls because you play for a well-known university). If you want a good example of a player who showcases that, just look at Andris Biedrins. And as for the competition, to be frank, the talent is much better than in the NCAA level. Not only do you have the players born and bred in Europe/South America/Africa, but you have former college standouts who were drafted and couldn't make it in the league. Furthermore, there's no age limit. That's why when you see a player like Yi or Bargnani playing well overseas its not worth dismissing off the bat like that. They have to face tougher, older, and more experienced competition, but they also have to beat out teammates like that for regular minutes (Euro teams usually stash young players on their bench in favour of veterans). So say what you want about it, but I'm personally more impressed with these international kids consistently more experienced talent than I am by Greg Oden dominating a bunch of 6'7" freshmen that won't even make it on a European team.</div> First off, lets get this straight off the bat, we're no way comparing Greg Oden to Yi. They aren't even close. Oden is in a different ballpark, in a different state, possibily even a different country. So what if Yi is ripping it up against NBA rejects? At least Greg Oden (if we're going to use him) continues to impress me against guys that I know the talent level of. However, Yi has one thing going for him though. He still puts up numbers against those guys. There are certain international players that put up adequate numbers against this competition, so that's probably the one reason why I can see a team picking Yi. It's a difference of your opinion against mine, lets not go into furthermore, as we're continuing to draw away from the topic of the thread (which is who do we think the Sixers should take). If you still want to chat about it, drop me a PM.
Well I definitely didn't mean to imply that Yi's better than Greg Oden. Oden's clearly the better prospect and the better pick, but that's not because of the competition he's facing (that's what I was arguing). Those "NBA rejects" that international players face are better than the majority of the players in the college level. The point I really wanted to make was that you can't just dismiss all foreign prospects as simply "hit or miss." There's so many other factors that are involved and a lot of the time, they may be more of a guarantee than a player from the college level. Anyways, I agree there's no point in turning this thread into a Euro vs. NCAA debate. I already agreed that Yi wouldn't be that great a pick for the Sixers. I'm still surprised people aren't throwing up Hawes' name. Maybe it's just because I've been following Pac-10 basketball all season, but I've been really high on him. He's got all the size, post offense, and rebounding you'd want in a big man.
C.K.: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What? Yes, I've seen college players play on a regular basis.</div> What i meant was, I don't think there is any way you could have watched Yi Jianlin play much, and you HAVE seen college players play. So i think your opinions are biased just because you have followed college ball. If people are comparing him to Amare Stadamire, then i really wouldnt mind taking a gamble as long as we have our other two picks, or one more high one.
<div class="quote_poster">Answer_AI03 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">C.K.: What i meant was, I don't think there is any way you could have watched Yi Jianlin play much, and you HAVE seen college players play. So i think your opinions are biased just because you have followed college ball. If people are comparing him to Amare Stadamire, then i really wouldnt mind taking a gamble as long as we have our other two picks, or one more high one.</div> Amare Stoudemire? Don't really see the comparison. Coming out of high school, Amare was already in a man's body. He was 250 pounds and already a physical specimen. Amare's weaknesses at the time are actually Yi's strengths; when you talk about ball handling ability and jump shot for a big guy, sorry but that comparison is totally off.
I think there's two camps to this issue. Those who favor conservative type picks who we've seen on a regular basis. And the other who favor upside and nothing but it. There are those who are still in high school playing against physically weaker competition and international type guys who are on professional teams, but aren't starters or play amongst softer style of basketball (international ball). But yet those guys have tremendous potential. Let's put it this way, very few guys are like Shaq, Yao, or Duncan where they are almost unstoppable in the low block (guys who can play physical, have nba ready skill, and have unique body types). Guys that are coming out are guys like LaMarcus Aldridge, Chris Bosh, Channing Frye, Andrea Bargnani. There's nothing wrong with guys who can rebound, block shots, and score from the mid-post, just as long as they also know how to get to the foul line, draw double teams, and kick the ball out. Defense is the one thing that finesse guys need more of just like Kevin Garnett, Chris Bosh, or young Clif Robinson. So, I think a team needs to draft a mix of conservative train of thought (which guys are ready to produce right now) and the radical train of thought (how much better can these guys become years down the line?) If Yi suddenly becomes a unique player/matchup problem that nobody can counter, a lot of teams will feel stupid for not drafting a once in a life time type of player. On the other hand, if he's too weak to contribute right now and he's not going to get much better down the line because he can't get stronger or improve on his current skillset, well... that just sucks. It's like the people who drafted Tyson Chandler, thinking he'd be the next Rasheed Wallace or Kevin Garnett. or the guys who drafted Kwame Brown or Nikoloz Tskitishvilli thinking they'd become very unique and dominant type of players... It's a crap shoot. Who thought Yao Ming or Dirk Nowitzki would turn out to be spectacular pros when they probably weighed less than a toothpick when they entered the league? Same goes with some high school players who lacked the Amare/Lebron/Dwight Howard type of man child muscle mass? It's all about the gamble and who has the right sense of judgement and research ability to look into their mental/physical/skill game. Plus, I wouldn't knock international ball players. Those guys kicked our butts during the Olympics. We could use more shooting finesse, if you ask me.
Noah IMO is junk. He is decent in the college game but wont come out as anything in the NBA. Also, he should stay another year because he really screwed up his draft value this year. Shoulda came out last year and coulda landed in the top 1-3.
<div class="quote_poster">N4S Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> Shoulda came out last year and coulda landed in the top 1-3.</div> Or, he made the right decision and win another Championship. Draft posistion doesn't really mean much in regards to Noah, since his family is well financed. His performance in the tournament dropped his stock a bit, but tryouts and workouts will help bring out his real value. But yeah, I agree that he won't be much in the NBA. A somewhat more skilled Anderson Varajeo.
Noah might have been #1 last year, but I think its a good thing for him that his position dropped. While I'm not saying that he wont be good, but I'm sure the team and their fans that picked him would have had unrealistic expections for him. He can be a good NBA player, but he will never a star in the league.
I'd love to grab Noah. He has the intensity that I think would be appreciated in Philadelphia (as long as he's on our side). He might be able to flourish in our system, plus I always love a guy who goes back to college for another year, makes a statement, then follows through on his goal of winning a National Championship.
<div class="quote_poster">N4S Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Noah IMO is junk. He is decent in the college game but wont come out as anything in the NBA. Also, he should stay another year because he really screwed up his draft value this year. Shoulda came out last year and coulda landed in the top 1-3.</div> I think that's how a majority of 76ers fans feel. I don't think Noah will do well in the NBA. His offensive game is limited, and he plays more off of energy than anything. Like some have said he is a glorified Anderson Varajeo, Ronny Ruriaf, etc. He won't be a bust, but he won't be anything above a role player.
I agree that I don't think he is going to be a great player, he should be a decent play though, he isn't "trash". I think Joakim could be very good in the Suns system though, and they got a chance to grab him to.
I definetly wouldn't mind taking Noah with our second pick (Denver's pick), but not our first pick. A Turiaf or Varajeo type of player isn't exactly bad. This team could use some energy and hustle, but honestly, I'm really hoping we can shoot higher than a hustle/role player with our first pick.
I merged the "Who do we take?" thread and the "Official Draft" Thread together. Since they are basically the same subject. I will leave the ping pong watch as a separate thread as constant updates among who has the worst records would cause this thread to become cluttered.
<div class="quote_poster">Brian Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">What do you guys feel about Julian Wright, now that he's declaring?</div> He is too passive imo, and doesn't really play a position we need...
Isn't he a small forward? That's the position Jeff Green and Corey Brewer plays. Unless you want us to draft Joakim Noah, there really aren't any good bigs left IMO. Oden, Wright, and Horford will all most likely be gone before we pick.
<div class="quote_poster">Brian Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Isn't he a small forward? That's the position Jeff Green and Corey Brewer plays. Unless you want us to draft Joakim Noah, there really aren't any good bigs left IMO. Oden, Wright, and Horford will all most likely be gone before we pick.</div> Horford, Jianlain, Hibbert, Brandan Wright, Oden, and Durant... That is seven quality big men. Assuming we don't land lower than seven we are guaranteed a quality big man, and that's assuming everyone one through six drafts a big man. We could also take a point guard, which is something we need considering Andre Miller is old. With Korver, Iguodala, and Carney last thing we need is another swing man.
