My 2 cents, Utah is not way better than the Rockets, it was a very close series that took 7 games and the Jazz won by 1 point. If I shot a 102 on a golf course and my buddy shot a 103, I wouldn't say I'm way better than him. I personally think Yao is the best center in the league at this point in time, especially when he fully recovers from his toe injury. (unless Tim Duncan is considered a center, then I think both are great and couldn't rank them easily). I think Yao is very difficult to replace, as there aren't very many centers that have the impact he does.
<div class="quote_poster">Skiptomylue11 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">My 2 cents, Utah is not way better than the Rockets, it was a very close series that took 7 games and the Jazz won by 1 point. If I shot a 102 on a golf course and my buddy shot a 103, I wouldn't say I'm way better than him. I personally think Yao is the best center in the league at this point in time, especially when he fully recovers from his toe injury. (unless Tim Duncan is considered a center, then I think both are great and couldn't rank them easily). I think Yao is very difficult to replace, as there aren't very many centers that have the impact he does.</div> As much as I am a Yao fan and agree with what you said - I pretty much think this is the ceiling for Yao, he probably won't improve too much from now on. He is an all star caliber player and is a definite difference maker on the offensive end (defensively... he's pretty decent, he doesnt block alot of shots but he does adjust shots). His greatest tool (his height) is also what, IMO, will limit him, especially since more and more teams are favoring a faster style of play. But still, I am a huge Yao fan, I think his attitude and demeaner are a breath of fresh air in this league, touhgh I wish he'd dunk the ball more and stop falling so much.
<div class="quote_poster">Clear It Out Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Anyone but Yao was the point of the post. If there weren't so many idiots in the NBA, Yao would've been figured out by now. He's a 7'6 center that plays like he's 5'6. Can't jump, bad reflexes, you name it. Zero athleticism. The only great thing about Yao is that he's 7'6 with a good touch from short-mid-range and from the free throw line. </div> Yet the guy nearly averaged a double double, and is NBA 2nd team - maybe all the experts are wrong as well? Sure Yao has no lift - he's 7'6! What do you expect? Have him be mobile like a SF? he's done things no 7'3+ center has EVER done (with the exception of Kareem). <div class="quote_poster">Clear It Out Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Other than that, he's useless. He's lost 100% of the time on defense. How many times did Boozer go around Yao and dunk on him? 10 times maybe? </div> If I'm not mistaken, Boozer and Okur are running circles around GS as well. Not to mention BOTH are huge mismatches for Yao (one is a mobile PF, the other is a perimeter oriented center). If you haven't noticed btw (or do you only notice the negative thigns Yao does?), Yao would run circles around Boozer or Okur on the defensive end 1on1, but Utah played wonderful team defense on him. Like I mentioned earlier, I think Yao is pretty close to his ceiling, but damn, give the guy some credit, your arguments just make you seem liek you have a bias against the guy.
You're right Yao's 7'6. BLOCK SOME SHOTS PLEASE? And I already named what was good about Yao. He's a 7'6 center that can shoot free throws and from 8-10 feet. Watch the games. Don't just base your opinion on stats. Watch Yao get lost. Smart teams will demolish Yao. This is a perimeter-oriented game now with the new rules. Centers can't just sit pretty in the middle. They need an athlete in the middle that can turn away some shots. Not a short-limbed center that couldn't block a shot or win an opening tip for his life. I'm not asking Yao to be a shutdown post defender. Just block some damn shots PLEASE. He's 7'6. I watched the whole series. The only blocked shots he got were uncalled fouls or if the offensive player was surrounded by like 2 other Rockets players. Actually watch Yao Ming play instead of trying to play devil's advocate here. There's a lot of damn things a center needs to do and he doesn't do them. He's not a consistent rebounder. There are multiple games where he plays 30+ minutes and grabs 3-4 rebounds. How is that even possible? I'm not asking him to be Shaq because God knows no one can be. But play like a center. There's more to the game than sitting on the post and shooting fadeaways.
<div class="quote_poster">Clear It Out Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">You're right Yao's 7'6. BLOCK SOME SHOTS PLEASE? And I already named what was good about Yao. He's a 7'6 center that can shoot free throws and from 8-10 feet. Watch the games. Don't just base your opinion on stats. Watch Yao get lost. Smart teams will demolish Yao. This is a perimeter-oriented game now with the new rules. Centers can't just sit pretty in the middle. They need an athlete in the middle that can turn away some shots. Not a short-limbed center that couldn't block a shot or win an opening tip for his life. I'm not asking Yao to be a shutdown post defender. Just block some damn shots PLEASE. He's 7'6. I watched the whole series. The only blocked shots he got were uncalled fouls or if the offensive player was surrounded by like 2 other Rockets players. Actually watch Yao Ming play instead of trying to play devil's advocate here. There's a lot of damn things a center needs to do and he doesn't do them. He's not a consistent rebounder. There are multiple games where he plays 30+ minutes and grabs 3-4 rebounds. How is that even possible? I'm not asking him to be Shaq because God knows no one can be. But play like a center. There's more to the game than sitting on the post and shooting fadeaways.</div> Yao averaged two blocks a game this season, I don't know how many blocks you want from the guy, but considering that ranked 26th in the league in total blocks I would say that is pretty good. Although, he did not do well in terms of blocks during the Utah series, he still played very well and consistent if you look at the big picture. He averaged 25 points and 10 rebounds with an efficiency rating of 21.14 thats not bad at all. Yao had several games this season when he did not do well rebounding, but are you taking into consideration the fact that he was coming off of a broken leg? That might have something to do with it. Not to mention the fact he has very little help crashing the boards, the next best rebounder on the team is his back up. That is during the regular season too, in the playoffs the second best rebounder was his teams point guard. Say whatever you want about "the league is changing" I don't think anyone on JBB or any where for that matter who is in a logical state of mind would object to having a center who averages 25 and 10 a night on their team.
I believe it is just difficult for Houston to assemble a team that can compete on a championship level with all the varying styles of play presented to them by the West. Whether or not T-Mac or Yao leaves, it leads to a large hole in the rotation that will be very difficult to impossible to fill. Sorry, but Oden for Yao makes this a worse team, not a better one in the short run. In the long run, it doesn't really matter, because T-Mac's back isn't going for a long trip. Replacing T-Mac with another playmaker is equally difficult as well, because there are so few that are even in the same league as Tracy. I believe the best bet is for the Rockets to try to get the right pieces to fit around both of them, or just ship them both for picks and younger pieces. Clutch city??? Not after two very poor Game 7 performances in a row...more like Crutch City with all the injuries...
Stats don't tell the whole story. Yao is often awkward on the court and hurts his team. He has never been a good rebounder or shot blocker. The only rebounds he gets, he gets because of his height. If you have actually watched Yao play and not just stared at his career stats, you'd notice his stats would seem inflated. The only things he's got going for him, and I say it again, are his height and his ability to shoot over his defender on the low block. I'd rather have a defensive-minded big man than an awkward, turnover-prone, "big man" that plays like a little guy. He barely ever dunks the ball. Always with the damn layups. He pisses me the hell off.
<div class="quote_poster">Clear It Out Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Stats don't tell the whole story. Yao is often awkward on the court and hurts his team. He has never been a good rebounder or shot blocker. The only rebounds he gets, he gets because of his height. If you have actually watched Yao play and not just stared at his career stats, you'd notice his stats would seem inflated. The only things he's got going for him, and I say it again, are his height and his ability to shoot over his defender on the low block. I'd rather have a defensive-minded big man than an awkward, turnover-prone, "big man" that plays like a little guy. He barely ever dunks the ball. Always with the damn layups. He pisses me the hell off.</div> The Rockets are on national TV so much, I'm pretty sure everyone has watched Yao play, just have had to say that because you act like Yao is some sort of secret Anyway... Now not dunking the ball often, affects how good a player he is? His stats are not inflated, Yao does what he can and gets whatever boards he can, with little to no help from the power forward position in the rebounding department. Having his teams point guard, as the second leading rebounder on the team, during the playoffs is pretty bad. You give excuses as to why he averages as many rebounds as he does, but the fact remains he is getting them is he not? He appears clumsy at times, but he is still a force and a great big man in the league. Earlier this season prior to the leg injury he was even considered an MVP candidate. I really think your hate for Yao stems from you not liking Yao in general, as opposed to his actual game. I don't know what team your a fan of, but would you complain if your team acquired Yao Ming?
<div class="quote_poster">Clear It Out Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">He has never been a good rebounder or shot blocker. </div> He averaged about 2 blocks per game. He'll never be a great rebounder, yet he nearly averaged a double double recovering from a broken leg and an injured toe (btw, I believe he's going under surgery on his big toe again soon). <div class="quote_poster">Clear It Out Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The only rebounds he gets, he gets because of his height. </div> As opposed to what? Magic spells? <div class="quote_poster">Clear It Out Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">If you have actually watched Yao play and not just stared at his career stats, you'd notice his stats would seem inflated. </div> Actually I watched all of Hou's games this playoffs. How are his stats inflated? <div class="quote_poster">Clear It Out Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The only things he's got going for him, and I say it again, are his height and his ability to shoot over his defender on the low block. I'd rather have a defensive-minded big man than an awkward, turnover-prone, "big man" that plays like a little guy. </div> Regardless of what he plays like, here's some stats for you: he's ranked 5th in efficiency overall, #1 amongst centers. <div class="quote_poster">Clear It Out Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">He barely ever dunks the ball. Always with the damn layups. He pisses me the hell off.</div> I'll agree partially with you on this; though a dunk is only 2 points, it'd be nice to seem him to dunk the ball more with authority. I'm like you, I've gotten pretty frustrated watching him play during the series, where it seemed like he regressed compared to earlier this season prior to his injury. Hopefully this season he can work on getting back to 100% and becoming even stronger.
<div class="quote_poster">Clear It Out Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Stats don't tell the whole story. Yao is often awkward on the court and hurts his team. He has never been a good rebounder or shot blocker. The only rebounds he gets, he gets because of his height. If you have actually watched Yao play and not just stared at his career stats, you'd notice his stats would seem inflated. The only things he's got going for him, and I say it again, are his height and his ability to shoot over his defender on the low block. I'd rather have a defensive-minded big man than an awkward, turnover-prone, "big man" that plays like a little guy. He barely ever dunks the ball. Always with the damn layups. He pisses me the hell off.</div> Hey, Shaq averaged 22.9 ppg, 10.4 rpg and 2.3 bpg in his first season in Miami, and he was the second leading vote getter in the MVP race. He's an average shotblocker and rebounder too, but I guess because he dunks the ball he's a better player? Foul-prone, turnover-prone, hey, he's just like the Yao you say! And I also like how you say that stats don't matter yet you bring up Yao's sub-par rebounding numbers.
<div class="quote_poster">Locke Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Hey, Shaq averaged 22.9 ppg, 10.4 rpg and 2.3 bpg in his first season in Miami, and he was the second leading vote getter in the MVP race. He's an average shotblocker and rebounder too, but I guess because he dunks the ball he's a better player? Foul-prone, turnover-prone, hey, he's just like the Yao you say! And I also like how you say that stats don't matter yet you bring up Yao's sub-par rebounding numbers.</div> It's a lot harder to stop Shaq, if at all possible. Shaq was a matchup problem for everyone. Big, quick, and strong. All of what Yao isn't. Sorry, but I'd rather the traditional paint-dominating center than a center that shoots jumpers. Numbers don't tell the whole story. Watch some games. You just compared Yao to Shaq. There's your error. And the reason Shaq had so many votes his first year with Miami, is the lack of other centers to vote for. Seriously, who else was on the ballot besides him and Ben Wallace? Kurt Thomas? People don't understand Yao's low ceiling for potential because of his physical limitations. This is MO: Slow, tall, uncoordinated, but can shoot well over players from 8-12 feet. So what if he gets the rebounds that come to him? I didn't list statistics about rebounding. I'm talking about the game. The reason he gets those rebounds is because of Houston's stifling defense. He just grabs them as they come to him. I wanna see him fight for a rebound. BOX OUT FOR ONCE. Since you love Shaq comparisons and stats so much, here's Shaq's averages at Yao's current length of NBA experience (5th year): 26.2 ppg 12.5 rpg 2.9 bpg.
<div class="quote_poster">Clear It Out Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's a lot harder to stop Shaq, if at all possible. Shaq was a matchup problem for everyone. Big, quick, and strong. All of what Yao isn't. Sorry, but I'd rather the traditional paint-dominating center than a center that shoots jumpers. Numbers don't tell the whole story. Watch some games. You just compared Yao to Shaq. There's your error. And the reason Shaq had so many votes his first year with Miami, is the lack of other centers to vote for. Seriously, who else was on the ballot besides him and Ben Wallace? Kurt Thomas? People don't understand Yao's low ceiling for potential because of his physical limitations. This is MO: Slow, tall, uncoordinated, but can shoot well over players from 8-12 feet. So what if he gets the rebounds that come to him? I didn't list statistics about rebounding. I'm talking about the game. The reason he gets those rebounds is because of Houston's stifling defense. He just grabs them as they come to him. I wanna see him fight for a rebound. BOX OUT FOR ONCE. Since you love Shaq comparisons and stats so much, here's Shaq's averages at Yao's current length of NBA experience (5th year): 26.2 ppg 12.5 rpg 2.9 bpg.</div> I brought up Shaq because you brought up Yao's numbers. Shaq had similar numbers that year. So just because Yao would rather shoot the ball than dunk he's a worse player? If you like the "traditional paint-dominating center", then that's your opinion, but it doesn't affect what anyone else should think. A jumper is 2 points, as good as a dunk. And I was talking about Shaq's MVP votes. Position had nothing to do with it.
<div class="quote_poster">Locke Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I brought up Shaq because you brought up Yao's numbers. Shaq had similar numbers that year. So just because Yao would rather shoot the ball than dunk he's a worse player? If you like the "traditional paint-dominating center", then that's your opinion, but it doesn't affect what anyone else should think. A jumper is 2 points, as good as a dunk.</div> Shaq led the league in FG% just about every season. A jumper isn't 99% accurate like Shaq's dunks. THAT's the reason he should dunk the ball.
I think this is my first time in this thread...I always saw it but I was so disgusted with the rockets losing that I never came in here <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">PF/C- Boozer> Yao </div> I don't know about this...I mean Yao couldn't guard boozer because he wasn't quick enough....if I'm a NBA GM there's no way I'm building a team around boozer before Yao...
<div class="quote_poster">Clear It Out Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Shaq led the league in FG% just about every season. A jumper isn't 99% accurate like Shaq's dunks. THAT's the reason he should dunk the ball.</div> Yao has a career 52% field goal percentage. I don't understand what more can you ask of the guy, that's a pretty damn efficient percentage, that's pretty much on par with the paint-oriented big men in the league. Don't forget about how how having extended range can also open up more lanes for smaller guards to drive into the paint, and with Yao's passing ability (which I feel is sometimes overrated, but gets the job done nevertheless) it opens up opportunities for other teammates.
<div class="quote_poster">asdf Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Yao has a career 52% field goal percentage. I don't understand what more can you ask of the guy, that's a pretty damn efficient percentage, that's pretty much on par with the paint-oriented big men in the league. Don't forget about how how having extended range can also open up more lanes for smaller guards to drive into the paint, and with Yao's passing ability (which I feel is sometimes overrated, but gets the job done nevertheless) it opens up opportunities for other teammates.</div> He shot 44% in the playoffs though and averaged almost 5 turnovers. And how many post-up centers are there in the league? Really just him and Shaq. You could toss Dwight Howard in the mix if you want. But he shot 60% this year. I'm not saying Yao's horrendous. Because with the lack of big men in the league, a lot of teams would take him. But I wouldn't give up McGrady instead of Yao. It just annoys me how confused Yao looks on the court and how he can't really block shots. He has an extremely short reach for his height so he can't consistently block shots without fouling. The blocked shots he's gotten, if you watch him play at all and not just stare and drool at the box score, have come when the opposing player is surrounded by multiple other defenders and he just reaches in for the easy block that Muggsy Bogues could have done. One word for Yao: OVERRATED. Yao = Zydrunas Ilgauskas except Big Z has longer arms and is a better shotblocker (obviously). Just that Houston has a very very good coach. Good luck winning games next year if Van Gundy decides to leave. I'm thinking lottery for the Rockets.
You seemed to have watched Utah Hou series pretty closely, but perhaps you haven't seen Hou play outside of this series? I think Utah did a good job on Yao, and really made him play ******, but one series doesn't reflect on his overall skill and worth. Remember, there is a guy named Kareem who never played with the physicality of Shaq, but as an understatement, he was pretty damn good (although you can't compared Yao with Kareem, but I'm bringing it up because you seem to think the center position can ONLY be played with physical dominance like Shaq did). Hence, I think anyone is crazy if they would rather keep TMac at this stage of his career over Yao, OR, think big Z is anywhere near Yao.
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know about this...I mean Yao couldn't guard boozer because he wasn't quick enough....if I'm a NBA GM there's no way I'm building a team around boozer before Yao...</div>I agree with that. I'd take Yao over Boozer (not to say I don't think Boozer rocks - very tough player) everytime if asked which played I'd want to build a team around. <div class="quote_poster">Clear It Out Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">He shot 44% in the playoffs though and averaged almost 5 turnovers. And how many post-up centers are there in the league? Really just him and Shaq. You could toss Dwight Howard in the mix if you want. But he shot 60% this year. </div>Well, the rarity of Centers that have a mismatch and capable of posting up is a good reason why Yao is quite valuable.
The problem with Yao is he doesn't play defense (or doesn't know how). He's an incredible liability on the defensive end. If I was the offense and I see Yao in the paint, I'd attack him because he can't block your shot anyway. His wingspan is insanely short. He'd foul you every time. What's this retarded idea that teams have to build around players anyway? Phoenix didn't build around anyone. They just came up with a system, put together the right pieces, and started winning. Same goes for Detroit, Utah, and numerous other teams. Even the Spurs aren't really built around Duncan. They've got good individual players also. Duncan just has a bigger part in their gameplan. Yao is not the type of player you can build around because he doesn't have the typical skills of a big man. If someone is that slow and tall, he better grab every rebound and block every shot. In this age of new rules that heavily favors guards, teams need big guys in the middle that can anchor the defense. Really, any decent guard can get into the paint at will. There needs to be a stopper in the middle.
