<div class="quote_poster">amador08 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">My brother's wife is cousins with Kobe's wife! I love that man! Nah in all honestly Jordan was my favorite player when he was playing. And now Kobe is maybe im just drunk and takling outta my ass. I do like Jordan though infact I love him and would probably date him if I was a girl. In other words I think he is the best player ever but a bit tad over-rated.</div> dude your the biggest idiot i have ever heard talking. seriously dont even post on this thread again. your not drunk, your just getting ur *ss handed to you so your making excuses. Jordan is not over rated. He is the greatest player to ever play and thats that. Kobe will never get that. He will never do what Michael Jordan has done. Kobe is not even in Jordans league. Jordan is on a completly different level. I don't think you have ever seen a Bulls game, or a MJ Era bulls title run. Don't post your "drunk" comments that make no sense.
<div class="quote_poster">elevate Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">dude your the biggest idiot i have ever heard talking. seriously dont even post on this thread again. your not drunk, your just getting ur *ss handed to you so your making excuses. Jordan is not over rated. He is the greatest player to ever play and thats that. Kobe will never get that. He will never do what Michael Jordan has done. Kobe is not even in Jordans league. Jordan is on a completly different level. I don't think you have ever seen a Bulls game, or a MJ Era bulls title run. Don't post your "drunk" comments that make no sense.</div> Relax bro. You don't need to get personal with members to make a point.
lol sorry. its just that i read the first post he made, then i posted. then i saw another one and another one. and as i kept reading they got even worse. this kobe is better then jordan thing is getting way out of hand. im sick of it coming up so often and i guess i got carried away there. my bad, its just that i strongly feel that jordan is in a league of his own and kobe will never be there. that takes nothing away from kb24 and i love how he plays. he will probably be the closest thing to MJ for a while, but thats still very far from #23.
<div class="quote_poster">amador08 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I would put Bruce Bowen above the Glove so Im not even gonna look at that list.</div> LMAO. What about guys like Dumars? Rodman? Hakeem? D-Rob? Mutumbo? Alonzo Mourning? Thunder Dan? Derrick Mckey? When you think of this year, how many defenders can you think of that are on par with that list? Artest? Wallace? Bowen? Anyone else? I would pick any of those guys over most of today's players in terms of defensive capabilities. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Pippen was the best defender on the Bulls yet Jordan still got DPOY? lol Maybe im confused who knows lol... </div> You're not confused, you just don't know your facts. Jordan won DPOY in 1987-1988, and Pippen was a skinny rookie who hadn't quite honed his defensive prowess yet. You're thinking of the Pippen from the 90's. Oh, Jordan also won the MVP and the DPOY in the SAME year. I think that just explains why Jordan is the greatest of all time and pretty much ends this whole Kobe/Jordan arguement, regardless of if we include rings or not. 35.0 ppg on 54% shooting, while averaging 5.5 rebounds, 5.9 assists, 3.16 steals and 1.60 blocks for a season is pretty much unmatchable. Stats aren't everything yes, but putting up those numbers for a whole SEASON is pretty much on an otherworldly level, especially considering the much more physical/defensive mindsets that he had to face.
Defensive players in Jordan's era were much better than the defensive players of today. Point black, period.
Forums / SPORTS / The Russakoff Rules The Russakoff Rules Go To.... Forums -- Categories --Forum GuidelinesForums UpdatesForums FeedbackForums Test Drive == The Neighborhood ==-- Categories --The Coffee ShopCity Hall == LIFESTYLE ==-- Categories --FoodHealth and Fitness == MUSIC ==-- Categories --Everything MusicVideo Vault == TV ==-- Categories --Everything TVAmerican IdolTV ReviewsCSI: Crime Scene InvestigationDancing With The StarsDesperate HousewivesGrey's AnatomyHouseHeroesJerichoLostPrison BreakSoapsSurvivorThe SopranosBest & Worst Commercials24The L WordThe ApprenticeSuggestions == SPORTS ==-- Categories --NFLNBANHLMLBCollege FootballCollege BasketballGolfTennisNASCARSoccerVito's ViewThe Russakoff Rules == SPECIAL FEATURES ==-- Categories --The Fan ForumCelebrity GossipThe Trailer ParkSpider-Man 3The ABCs of HDTVInternet Safety == PLAYGAMES ==-- Categories --Tilda's TinkeringzSuggestions & FeedbackHidden Clue CollectorsHelp!Virtual Villagers VillageHigh Score SalutesThe Gem BustersEverything PlayGamesDiner Dashers and Friends Register | Sign In | Forums Help New Message Category Options Mark all Messages as Read Mark all Messages as New Float this Board to the Top Add This Board to My Subscriptions Add This Board to My Bookmarks Subscribe to this board's RSS Feed Threaded Format Linear Format Sort Messages by Thread Start Date Edit My Preferences Front Page Previous Page Next Page NBA Resurrection By Lee Russakoff, Comcast Sports June 1, 2007 I?d heard all of the prophecies. Still, I never believed the messiah would return. When Michael Jordan retired, I was sure we would never see another man with the ability to control an entire NBA game. Never again would a player be able to single-handedly beat a superior team armed merely with unbelievable athletic skill and undeniable force of will. But I was wrong. Forget the tongue wag?the kids of tomorrow will all be biting their fingernails. Thursday night ensures that. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the Sports Forums for comments on today's column -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- May 31, 2007: The night LeBron James beat the Detroit Pistons. All by himself. One man, if he is a man (DNA tests are pending), faced insurmountable odds against an entire army of playoff veterans, and he conquered them all. As Tayshaun Prince feebly tried to cover the King whilst James dropped shot after shot in his face, I could almost read Prince?s lips: ?This is Madness!? The King responded as he drove to the hoop and threw down a thunderous dunk on Prince?s head: ?Madness? THIS IS SPARTA!? The funny thing is, as an avid NBA fan I should have seen this one coming. After being skewered in the press for passing up and then missing the game-winning shots in Games 1 and 2, LeBron responded by defending his home court with two great playoff performances (32-9-9 and 25-7-11). But if James was going to pull off a win in the Palace in Game 5, he was going to have to be a lot more than dominant. He was going to have to be Herculean. He was going to have to be epic. Which made Thursday night must-see TV. Because those of us who follow this kid knew he was capable of such a feat if given the opportunity. We just wondered when he was actually going to deliver. Yes, LeBron was the best player on the floor. But Detroit had the next best five. Rasheed Wallace, Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton, Chris Webber and Prince are all much better than any player on the Cavaliers who hasn?t been dubbed a royal. And had Antonio McDyess not gotten thrown out early for a flagrant-two foul, Detroit would have had yet another player head and shoulders above anyone playing with James. LeBron won anyway. It was one on five and five on one. Eric Snow and Anderson Varejao may have helped out on defense down the stretch, but no one in a Cleveland jersey gave the King any help whatsoever on offense. Literally. In the last 18 minutes of the game, no one except James put the ball in the basket. Actually, that?s not true. Drew Gooden made a foul shot with 2:48 left in the fourth quarter. Sorry, Drew. Way to step up. That?s all the rest of the Cleveland lineup could muster in the most important minutes of the most important game in franchise history. One stinking foul shot. LeBron won anyway. Mike Brown, LeBron?s coach, was completely inept and did everything he could to deny James a win. He sat the King for the first four minutes of the fourth quarter. He wasted valuable timeouts down the stretch. He played defensive liabilities like Daniel Gibson and Damon Jones in lieu of defensive stopper Eric Snow despite the fact that no one on Cleveland aside from James would take a shot. LeBron won anyway. Of course, none of it would have been possible had he not been facing a Flip Saunders coached team. Got a question for you, Flip. As a coach, how many points in a row does it take to send an immediate double team at James as soon as he touches the ball? Thirty? Forty? Where?s your threshold? Just curious. (Side note: doesn?t this have to be the worst-coached conference finals in the history of the NBA? Heck, wouldn?t it have to be the worst-coached series in the history of Biddy Basketball? It?s a shame that one of these coaches will actually make the finals and be regarded by pundits as performing on a high level. If either of these guys merely had the basketball I.Q. of Ron Artest, they would have won this series already.) The bad coaching and non-existent defensive strategy take nothing away from James? performance. ?Video Game James? (as dubbed by Drew Gooden?Drew?s one and only contribution of the night. Oh, aside from that free throw. Sorry Drew, I keep forgetting about that free throw.) got dunks when he wanted them, got fouled when he wanted to, and hit fade away 3s like he was Reggie Miller in the Garden. The truth is, I can?t say I ever really understood how apt Nike's ad campaign was until Thursday night. We are all bearing witness. And we just witnessed the single greatest playoff performance in the history of the game. Read that last sentence again. And then find me a performance that was greater. LeBron scored 48 points. He scored the last 25 for the Cavaliers. Twenty-nine of the last 30. He made the last 11 field goals. (Only the ?God disguised as Michael Jordan? game comes close to this James game?but this one has to top Jordan?s performance against the Celtics for one simple reason: ?His Airness? lost the game.) And the King did it all while trying to carry this sorry bunch further than any Cleveland team has gone before. Against one of the best defensive teams in the league. In a pivotal Game 5 of the conference finals. On the road. Unbelievable. Don?t his critics have to be feeling a little silly right now? Those who said LeBron lacks the fire and aggressiveness to be the next basketball god have to be crying in their beers today, don?t they? Because not only has LeBron James taken the torch from Michael Jordan, he has reshaped the torch in his own image. Like all of the great ones, LeBron has transcended comparisons to past phenoms. He is no longer the next M.J.; he is now the first and only LeBron. Ten years from now, we will argue that he is the best player to ever pick up a basketball. And we'll be right. Remember, this kid is only 22 years old. M.J. didn?t make it out of the first round until he was 25. And say what you want about how bad Jordan?s teams were pre-Pippen?they were never as sorry as this group of Cleveland hacks. May 31, 2007 is a night that will live in NBA infamy. Not only did it see the greatest playoff performance in league history, but it marked the arrival of the game?s next true superstar. King James has finally proven himself worthy of his royal moniker. This is a great day for the NBA. For I have no doubt that James? rise will bring back a league that was in serious danger of becoming irrelevant. Like Doctor and Magic and Larry and Michael before him, King James will surely usher in a new era of professional basketball prosperity. And the timing couldn?t be better. Because a Detroit-San Antonio Final will not help the NBA out of its Lindsay Lohan-like downward spiral. The only thing that can save the NBA from its Oxycontin coma is the arrival of the messiah. Luckily for all of us, he arrived in Detroit on Thursday night. Luckily for all of us, we were able to bear witness. Will LeBron ever be better than Michael Jordan? Will he even get past the Pistons? Send your thoughts to russakoffrules@comcast.net or sound off in the sports forums. Lee Russakoff Contact Sports Editor, Comcast.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Community Can LeBron Take the Cavs All the Way? Has David Stern Ruined the Playoffs? Robert Horry Belongs in the Hall of Fame? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Archive Time to Kill the MVP McNabb Is Not the Next Elway Cheerleading By Example Can a Team Win with Allen Iverson? Philly Fans Are a Cursed Tribe -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- THREAD REPLIES AUTHOR LATEST POST LeBron Has Arrived 5 Russakoff 06-01-2007 12:56 PM by jhelmke23 Nascar is a lost cause [ 1 2 ] 10 bozoone 06-01-2007 12:08 PM by MarkusupAhuh Russakoff 8 Realspsort 06-01-2007 11:51 AM by ba4mg Get rid of overdone Super Bowl halftime shows 1 KenMan 06-01-2007 10:51 AM by Russakoff Get Rid of the MVP? 6 Theditor 05-19-2007 12:07 PM by KenMan The Russakoff Rules [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ] 72 Theditor 05-19-2007 11:43 AM by Watcher1 MLB: Cheerleaders? 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[ 1 2 ] 15 Theditor 03-24-2007 10:58 PM by KenMan Cinderella Men 5 Russakoff 03-16-2007 01:16 PM by Russakoff Top Tags No tags yet Top Taggers No tags yet Legend No New Messages New Messages Hot Thread (Hot Threads have 20 or more replies) Read Only Thread Replied-To Thread Forum Home Jump to Page: 1 ? 2 Front Page Previous Page Next Page User Search ? Advanced Privacy Statement Terms of Service Contact Comcast ? 2007 Comcast Cable Communications, LLC. All rights reserved. that lebron article says it all could Kobe beat the piston 80's bad boys <font size=""7""></font> HELL NO COULD MICHAEL HAVE SCORED 81 POINTS YES HE SCORED 69 63 IN THE PLAYOFFS KOBE WILL NEVER BE LIKE MIKE LABRON MAYBE BUT NOT KOBE.
<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The teams of the 80's would destroy today's teams. The 2001 Lakers were a great team with Kobe and Shaq, but you talking about two superstars having to deal with a starting 5 of superstars who played for the Lakers or Celtics. Just take a look at the recent Team USA Dream Teams. These players are fantastic one on one, but when you try to mesh them together on the same team they cannot compete. I realize some of the best players haven't been apart of it like the original Dream Team members, but the original Dream Teamers all new how to win as a unit and how to lock a team down defensively. The Championship teams of the 80's would smoke any championship team in the past decade.</div> I agree here, there was more talent concentration in a lot of the better teams in the 80's. Look at right now, for a few years, NJ went to the finals, before, a one man offensive led team (yes their defense was great) went to the finals, I mean common, that wasn't going to happen in the 80's. Those same teams would've had more talent if they were back then so a direct team to team comparison just doesn't work at all, 80's kill now.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The Championship teams of the 80's would smoke any championship team in the past decade. </div> I don't know if I'd go that far, but the teams of the 80's were better than the teams today. This kind of ties in with my argument with huevon the other day on why I felt Hakeem was much better than Tim Duncan. Olajuwon had to go through the likes of Magic, Kareem, Worthy etc. just to "get" to the finals in his second year and then he had to go up against the frontline of Bird, Mchale, and Parrish which at the time was too much for him. Duncan has never seen that much talent in one playoff run for any of his titles. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I believe it should've been eight</div> yeah they should've beat the pistons the two previous years prior to their first title...
Dream, Youre give Hakeem too much of a free pass. In the 80s, the WEST was weaker than it was today, with exception to their top team, the Lakers. The Lakers were really the only team in the west during that period (for god sake the Mavs were in the conf. finals one year). The Celtics had a much much tougher road to get to the finals- Bucks, 76ers, Pistons, Bulls, Cavs, Hawks to name a few. Switch the Lakers and Celtics from east to west and you can go ahead and switch the championships along with it. Hakeem not advancing past the Lakers is one thing, but no excuse for losing to the other western teams as they were not great in any way.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Hakeem not advancing past the Lakers is one thing, but no excuse for losing to the other western teams as they were not great in any way.</div> But he did get past the Lakers one year but he ran into the celtics. You also have to consider the team around Hakeem once Sampson was injured. Once you got to the late 80's and early 90's the West was just as good if not better than the east based on every team (Portland, Lakers, Sonics, Jazz, Spurs, Phoenix, etc.)
Well, they were extremely lucky to beat the Lakers to get into the conf finals. The shot by Sampson was so awkward looking. I think it was in game 6, right? So the Rockets already had a 3-2 lead. I would give the lakers the advantage in game 7 with their experience. But getting back to reality, the Rockets ran into a buzz -saw in the 86 Celtics- one of the best teams in NBA history. Ill agree with you that in the early 90s, from top to bottom, the West was better than the east. I think the East's top teams would beat the West's top, but overall, im with you. Its still suprising to me that a great player like Hakeem couldnt elevate his team past the Lakers, Sonics, Spurs, Suns, Jazz (portland was clearly better in 90-92) as all were pretty close in talent and were pretty much tossups. (92-93 suns and the aformentioned blazers being the exception).
well he did eventually he just had to get the right mix of players (horry and cassell really helped out once they got there) to get over the hump. I still dream about what would've happened with Hakeem and Sampson side by side with one another in the 90's?????
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know if I'd go that far, but the teams of the 80's were better than the teams today. This kind of ties in with my argument with huevon the other day on why I felt Hakeem was much better than Tim Duncan. Olajuwon had to go through the likes of Magic, Kareem, Worthy etc. just to "get" to the finals in his second year and then he had to go up against the frontline of Bird, Mchale, and Parrish which at the time was too much for him. Duncan has never seen that much talent in one playoff run for any of his titles.</div> Well I feel Hakeem is somewhat better than Duncan, but not to the same degree you do, check out that thread to see what I was referring to. Duncan has seen comparable talent in a playoff run, Shaq + Kobe shouldn't be underrated.
no they shouldn't but Shaq + Kobe doesn't equal Shaq + Penny + D Rob + Malone + Stockton + Barkley + KJ (who played out of his mind in that series) + Rodman either.....in all my years of watching b-ball I dont think I've see "one" team go through a championship caliber team in every round of the playoffs, what the Dream and the rockets did that year was incredibly special...
absolutely - 95 was incredible for the Rockets. The argument between Duncan and Hakeem is a good one when you factor in longetivity and what was done during the playoffs. Duncan has done it year after year. Now if we want to talk about each at their peaks - no question there. But longetivity is particulary important when discussing the "greater player."
In the 95 Finals Hakeem faced a young inexperienced O'Neal. Duncan faced O'Neal in his prime who could put up 40+pts 20 Reb easily against anyone, and Duncan held more than his own. Look at the head to head stats between O'Neal and Olajuwon, and O'Neal and Duncan. Shaq beats Olajuwon, Duncan beats Shaq.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Shaq beats Olajuwon, Duncan beats Shaq</div> In his prime Hakeem outplayed Shaq on the biggest stage....a lot of those head to stats dropped for Hakeem after he was past his prime when playing Shaq...Shaq even said himself "hakeem dusted my butt" <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Duncan faced O'Neal in his prime who could put up 40+pts 20 Reb, and he held his own</div> O'Neal could've done the same things back then also...he was a guy who was going to get you 30 a night and over 10 boards at the least.....to be honest Shaq really never got any better after that point...yes he went on to win titles, but as far as his game is concerned a. he was and is a bad ft shooter b. he used mostly power to score c. his defense never improved <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">But longetivity is particulary important when discussing the "greater player."</div> well that's the thing if you look at their stats and their play you might actually say Hakeem had more longevity, but he played in a harder era so it wasn't recognized as much.....
<div class="quote_poster">NBA MAN Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">In the 95 Finals Hakeem faced a young inexperienced O'Neal. Duncan faced O'Neal in his prime who could put up 40+pts 20 Reb easily against anyone, and Duncan held more than his own. Look at the head to head stats between O'Neal and Olajuwon, and O'Neal and Duncan. Shaq beats Olajuwon, Duncan beats Shaq.</div>I don't know how it appeared when Shaq and Hakeem actually played in the finals, it looked close statistically between the two centers, my guess would be that Hakeem had the edge in that series. When Shaq played Duncan, usually I would think that Shaq outplayed Duncan, that it usually took Robinson and Duncan to slow down Shaq. I think Duncan/Robinson did about as good a job as anyone can, but I think Shaq had the bigger impact in those series.
