This thread is for posting your own preseason top 25 and for discussing everyone else's. I figured it'd be better to just make one thread for them all, so that we don't have a bunch of new threads pop up when we get closer to November. Anyway, here's my early Top 25 - 1) North Carolina 2) Memphis 3) Kansas 4) UCLA 5) Tennessee 6) Georgetown 7) Louisville 8) Michigan State 9) Duke 10) Washington State 11) UConn 12) Southern Cal 13) Gonzaga 14) Kansas State 15) Indiana 16) Marquette 17) Alabama 18) Texas 19) Arizona 20) Oregon 21) Butler 22) Kentucky 23) Davidson 24) Stanford 25) Wisconsin
<div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">This thread is for posting your own preseason top 25 and for discussing everyone else's. I figured it'd be better to just make one thread for them all, so that we don't have a bunch of new threads pop up when we get closer to November. Anyway, here's my early Top 25 - 1) North Carolina 2) Memphis 3) Kansas 4) UCLA 5) Tennessee 6) Georgetown 7) Louisville 8) Michigan State 9) Duke 10) Washington State 11) UConn 12) Southern Cal 13) Gonzaga 14) Kansas State 15) Indiana 16) Marquette 17) Alabama 18) Texas 19) Arizona 20) Butler 21) Kentucky 22) Davidson 23) Stanford 24) Wisconsin 25) Florida</div> What happened to all that love you had for Zona last year? USC over Arizona even though Budinger is back? I know Arizona sucked last year, but they still have Budinger and Jordan Hill, two of the top 20 freshman from last year. Then they add Bayless, Jamelle Horne, & get Kirk Walters back. I think Arizona will get back to form and have a great year.
<div class="quote_poster">J_Ray Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">What happened to all that love you had for Zona last year? USC over Arizona even though Budinger is back? I know Arizona sucked last year, but they still have Budinger and Jordan Hill, two of the top 20 freshman from last year. Then they add Bayless, Jamelle Horne, & get Kirk Walters back. I think Arizona will get back to form and have a great year.</div> What happened to all that love? You've got to be kidding me. I finally learned my lesson, that's all. I bet on them to win something like thirteen times in the predictions thread, and they never came through. And even with all that talent coming back, no one on that roster's on O.J. Mayo's level. It's not like USC doesn't have a good supporting cast either. Don't forget that Davon Jefferson is coming back, and Taj Gibson owns the glass in the Pac-10. Ultimately, on talent alone, I'd probably have Arizona higher, but this squad hasn't shown any chemistry, and the fact that the Pac-10 is so deep this year hurts them as well. Teams like Memphis will inevitably cruise to a high ranking because they don't play anyone, yet Arizona's got to go up against six or seven other potentially ranked teams in the Pac-10. EDIT: Just noticed I forgot Oregon. I edited them in though.
<div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> And even with all that talent coming back, no one on that roster's on O.J. Mayo's level. It's not like USC doesn't have a good supporting cast either. Don't forget that Davon Jefferson is coming back, and Taj Gibson owns the glass in the Pac-10. Ultimately, on talent alone, I'd probably have Arizona higher, but this squad hasn't shown any chemistry, and the fact that the Pac-10 is so deep this year hurts them as well. Teams like Memphis will inevitably cruise to a high ranking because they don't play anyone, yet Arizona's got to go up against six or seven other potentially ranked teams in the Pac-10. </div> I feel ya on being disappointed in 'Zona. Last year I went in with such high hopes only to have them squashed (again) by horrible D and lack of chemistry. Losing Mustafa and Marcus is going to be tough to deal with but Zona has a top five recruiting class coming in as well. Bayless is arguably a better prospect than Mayo, Mayo just comes in with the SLAM hype basically. Horne is also a five star prospect coming in that can also add some defensive spunk to the team (if he maintains effort on that end). McClellan is due for a breakout year as well. With 'Zona though it's always the same story of this sort of potential and then they fall short, however I think they will still manage to outshine USC.
I knew it was too good to be true. Florida was your original #25 team, but now they are off. Don't sleep on them because we have the talent of a top 25 team, just no experience. I expect us to be in the Top 25 for most of the year(lower half of course) and be a surprise to most "experts".
<div class="quote_poster">RockChalk Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Guess I better start reading up on Davidson......</div> Stephen Curry Stephen Curry Stephen Curry. That's pretty much what you need to know lol. I suppose I'll post my top 25 a bit later since I've been dawdling in this forum today. Stay tuned.
<div class="quote_poster">sunsfan1357 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I feel ya on being disappointed in 'Zona. Last year I went in with such high hopes only to have them squashed (again) by horrible D and lack of chemistry. Losing Mustafa and Marcus is going to be tough to deal with but Zona has a top five recruiting class coming in as well. Bayless is arguably a better prospect than Mayo, Mayo just comes in with the SLAM hype basically. Horne is also a five star prospect coming in that can also add some defensive spunk to the team (if he maintains effort on that end). McClellan is due for a breakout year as well. With 'Zona though it's always the same story of this sort of potential and then they fall short, however I think they will still manage to outshine USC.</div> Mayo's all SLAM hype? I've seen both him and Bayless play live, and there's a huge difference in their talent level. For one, Bayless is less of a point guard. I understand that Mayo's a combo guard himself, but he's still more of a distributer at this point in his career than Bayless. Unfortunately, Arizona needs a point guard a lot more than Southern Cal too. Mustafa Shakur had the wrong mindset for a point, and that's one of the main reasons they did so poorly last season, yet they're filling that void with Jerryd Bayless, who is essentially a two-guard, and Nic Wise, who is a scoring-minded point that hasn't grown since he commited to Zona back in his freshman year. <div class="quote_poster">Gee_Dupe11 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">woo can't wait to watch the beast team of MEMPHIS. we are back</div> Since when have you been a Memphis fan? <div class="quote_poster">GatorsowntheNCAA Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> I knew it was too good to be true. Florida was your original #25 team, but now they are off. Don't sleep on them because we have the talent of a top 25 team, just no experience. I expect us to be in the Top 25 for most of the year(lower half of course) and be a surprise to most "experts".</div> Haha, I just edited them out because I forgot Oregon. I do think they deserve recognition, but over who? Wisconsin has the benefit of playing in a conference with only two other ranked teams, Stanford returns the Lopez twins, and Davidson brings back their entire roster from last year's 29-5 season. <div class="quote_poster">RockChalk Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Guess I better start reading up on Davidson......</div> Yeah, I've seen them ranked in several other Preseason Top 25 polls as well, and with good reason. They return every single scholarship player on their roster, including rising sophomore Stephen Curry, Del Curry's kid, who probably had the best year statistically for a freshman outside of Durant with 21.5 ppg, 4.6 rpg, and 2.8. Those are just insane numbers for a frosh. So, does anyone else have a top 25?
<div class="quote_poster">Voodoo Child Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Mayo's all SLAM hype? I've seen both him and Bayless play live, and there's a huge difference in their talent level. For one, Bayless is less of a point guard. I understand that Mayo's a combo guard himself, but he's still more of a distributer at this point in his career than Bayless. Unfortunately, Arizona needs a point guard a lot more than Southern Cal too. Mustafa Shakur had the wrong mindset for a point, and that's one of the main reasons they did so poorly last season, yet they're filling that void with Jerryd Bayless, who is essentially a two-guard, and Nic Wise, who is a scoring-minded point that hasn't grown since he commited to Zona back in his freshman year.</div> Mayo isn't all SLAM hype, I said he's coming in with SLAM hype which is why people still think he is the number one prospect. He isn't as I'm sure you know as well. Bayless has a lot more potential for expanding his game. Offensively and athletically he is more developed than Mayo (Mayo is stronger though). He is a natural leader, something UA definitely lacked last year considering no one can get Marcus out of NBA mode. Is Mayo a better prospect, overall but I stated that Bayless arguably is better. In no way does Mayo blow Bayless out of the water and make up for losing Young and Pruitt more than Bayless can make up for losing Shakur and Williams (plus he's going to Point Guard University, if anyone can get his game in shape it's Olsen's staff).
<div class="quote_poster">sunsfan1357 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Mayo isn't all SLAM hype, I said he's coming in with SLAM hype which is why people still think he is the number one prospect. He isn't as I'm sure you know as well. Bayless has a lot more potential for expanding his game. Offensively and athletically he is more developed than Mayo (Mayo is stronger though). He is a natural leader, something UA definitely lacked last year considering no one can get Marcus out of NBA mode. Is Mayo a better prospect, overall but I stated that Bayless arguably is better. In no way does Mayo blow Bayless out of the water and make up for losing Young and Pruitt more than Bayless can make up for losing Shakur and Williams (plus he's going to Point Guard University, if anyone can get his game in shape it's Olsen's staff).</div> What the hell is SLAM hype though? I'm lost. As far as I'm concerned, he is the best player. I've seen most of the top high school prospects live twice, and from everything I've seen, Mayo's by far the best player in the class. Beasley's not far behind, but I think he's actually more of a tweener than Mayo. He got shut down trying to post up Ajinca in the Hoops Summit. And Bayless is definitely not further along offensively. All he is at the moment is a one dimensional player; a scorer and nothing else. When he tried to run the point in Memphis, all hell broke loose. The kid has no idea how to run an offense. He's used to being the main option on his team and creating offensive opportunities for himself, but in a pure point guard role, the kid stagnates. As for the Point Guard U. moniker, look at who they've produced. Damon Stoudamire, Jason Gardner, Gilbert Arenas, and Mustafa Shakur are all in the same mold. They're shoot-first point guards with a me-first mindset and defensive deficiencies. So Bayless is headed for a similar future, but is that really a good thing? Also, Mayo's not replacing both Pruitt and Young, just Pruitt. You're forgetting about five-star recruit Davon Jefferson, who'll shoulder the scoring load on the wing.
Here's my top 25 I just scrummed up: 1. UCLA 2. Memphis 3. UNC 4. Tennessee 5. Kansas 6. Louisville 7. Mich. St. 8. Georgetown 9. Indiana 10. Duke 11. Oregon 12. Marquette 13. Washington State 14. Alabama 15. USC 16. Arkansas 17. Butler 18. Zona 19. Stanford 20. Gonzaga 21. Davidson 22. Xavier 23. SIU 24. Mississippi St. 25. Pittsburgh I'm pretty shaky on the last 5 or 6 teams. Despite me just defending 'Zona I've learned that they will probably prove me wrong and under achieve again. I'm too lazy to type up my positions on why I put someone where so I'll just answer those as they come I guess. Going back to Bayless and Mayo. SLAM hype is basically the hype Mayo has gotten from magazines like SLAM or whatever other publication has been praising him since 8th grade. You're really the only person I know who has Mayo as the top prospect, he's top 5 no doubt but I put him behind Beasley, Rose, and Love for sure. Damon Stoudemire helped with 3 Pac-10 championships, All-American, and part of a Final Four team. We all know how Mike Bibby did. Jason Gardner All-American, POY, 2001 Final Four and did what he did with Arenas on the team. Yeah I'd be pretty happy if Bayless can do that stuff.
<div class="quote_poster">sunsfan1357 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">1. UCLA 2. Memphis 3. UNC 4. Tennessee 5. Kansas 6. Louisville 7. Mich. St. 8. Georgetown 9. Indiana 10. Duke 11. Oregon 12. Marquette 13. Washington State 14. Alabama 15. USC 16. Arkansas 17. Butler 18. Zona 19. Stanford 20. Gonzaga 21. Davidson 22. Xavier 23. SIU 24. Mississippi St. 25. Pittsburgh</div> Good call on Tennessee. I saw Wayne Chism the other day, and that guy has been working out like crazy over the offseason and has added a hell of a lot of muscle mass. I'm really expecting a breakout year for him this season shifting to the five spot for the Vols. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm pretty shaky on the last 5 or 6 teams. Despite me just defending 'Zona I've learned that they will probably prove me wrong and under achieve again. I'm too lazy to type up my positions on why I put someone where so I'll just answer those as they come I guess. Going back to Bayless and Mayo. SLAM hype is basically the hype Mayo has gotten from magazines like SLAM or whatever other publication has been praising him since 8th grade. You're really the only person I know who has Mayo as the top prospect, he's top 5 no doubt but I put him behind Beasley, Rose, and Love for sure.</div> Yeah, I know what SLAM magazine is, but they're not the only ones who've been touting him as the top prospect. He was #1 on Rivals for the longest time, and they're far more credible. Actually, I just looked it up, and Scout.Com has him #1, Beasley #2, and Love #3. They've seen more of these guys than both of combined, so for what it's worth, they agree with me on Mayo's talent. By the way, how many times have you actually seen Mayo play? He's proven his worth on pretty much every major stage sans the McDonalds All-American game. Ever since that on game, it seems as if everyone has a definitive opinion of his worth. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Damon Stoudemire helped with 3 Pac-10 championships, All-American, and part of a Final Four team. We all know how Mike Bibby did. Jason Gardner All-American, POY, 2001 Final Four and did what he did with Arenas on the team. Yeah I'd be pretty happy if Bayless can do that stuff.</div> I didn't mention Mike Bibby, because Bayless isn't in his mold. Gardner is one of the biggest failures to have ever come out of 'Zona. The guy coattailed into the Final Four behind Arenas, Wright, Jefferson, Woods, and Walton. You could have thrown any point guard into that situation, and they would have gotten just as far. The fact of the matter is that he was a shoot-first point guard, and that ultimately led to him not being drafted and winding up in the Euroleague. And when was that POY? No one's won a POY trophy in the history of 'Zona ball. Either way, I don't get why you argue this, yet you rank Southern Cal #15 and have Arizona. It seems like an argument for the sake of having an argument. BTW - I guess I'm the only one high on UConn? I noticed ESPN doesn't have them ranked either. I know they had a down year, but they're still bringing in the top shelf recruits and have Calhoun at the helm. Forget the fact that they barely finished over .500 on the season. They didn't have any upperclassmen on their roster. PG - A.J. Price (Jr.) SG - Jerome Dyson (So) SF - Marcus Johnson (Jr.)/Stanley Robinson (So. - former 5-star recruit) PF - Jeff Adrien (Jr.)/Curtis Kelly (So. - former 5-star recruit) C - Hasheem Thabeet (So.) Seems pretty solid to me...
I wasn't arguing for the sake of arguing at all. I think if everything is put together right then Zona will be better than USC, however, like I said I'm used to setting my hopes kind of high and then seeing them crumble to oblivion so I put USC on top for the time being. I believe Rivals has Mayo 4th now. A lot of people are shaky on him now saying he has a bad attitude (really no concrete evidence of that, just word circulating) and what not. The thing most people are starting to realize now is that he isn't as athletic as the other guys, he isn't the best scorer, isn't the best passer (though he isn't bad at it) but still needs the ball in his hands to be effective. At the same time though he is a smart guy and does rebound well. I've seen a few games, none in person because I'm not a traveling scout so I probably don't have as much to rely on other than your opinion and sites like Rivals. As for Gardner, he won Frances Pomeroy Naismith POY (for players 6' and under) Either way I really don't think anyone would have been able to just waltz in and be the leader of a team with that many egos and go as far as they did. That team in general is the most disappointing I've come across for the fact that they didn't win the whole thing, but Gardner was not disappointing.
<div class="quote_poster">sunsfan1357 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I wasn't arguing for the sake of arguing at all. I think if everything is put together right then Zona will be better than USC, however, like I said I'm used to setting my hopes kind of high and then seeing them crumble to oblivion so I put USC on top for the time being. I believe Rivals has Mayo 4th now. A lot of people are shaky on him now saying he has a bad attitude (really no concrete evidence of that, just word circulating) and what not. The thing most people are starting to realize now is that he isn't as athletic as the other guys, he isn't the best scorer, isn't the best passer (though he isn't bad at it) but still needs the ball in his hands to be effective. At the same time though he is a smart guy and does rebound well. I've seen a few games, none in person because I'm not a traveling scout so I probably don't have as much to rely on other than your opinion and sites like Rivals.</div> I don't think his attitude will be a problem simply because he's going to a team where he'll be the main option from day one. Tim Floyd knows what kind of overbearingly confident player he is, and he's okay with that. He's already come out and said that he's going to give him the reigns to the team. I guess we'll just have to wait and see on him, but from everything I've seen, he'll probably have the best year of any freshman. He's not the most athletic, the best scorer, the best passer, etc.; but he combines all of those attributes in a more well-rounded skillset than any other player has. Besides, it's very arguable that he's not the best scorer. Bayless comes from a program where he was the main option throughout his entire career, whereas Mayo has managed to average 20-30 ppg ever since middle school, all while playing alongside the likes of Bill Walker and Patrick Patterson. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As for Gardner, he won Frances Pomeroy Naismith POY (for players 6' and under) Either way I really don't think anyone would have been able to just waltz in and be the leader of a team with that many egos and go as far as they did. That team in general is the most disappointing I've come across for the fact that they didn't win the whole thing, but Gardner was not disappointing.</div> Lol, damn, how'd I forget the Frances Pomeroy Naishmith trophy? There have actually been some great players to have won it: Muggsy Bogues, Tim Hardaway, Brevin Knight, Earl Boykins, Jameer Nelson, Nate Robinson, and Dee Brown. My early money's on Tajuan Porter this year. It'll be interesting to see how he fairs with no Aaron Brooks around though. The two complimented eachother very well. As for that '01 Arizona team, yeah, they were stacked, especially in the post. A lot of peoeple forget how good Wright and Woods were in college. Still, that Duke team that beat them was incredible. Jay Williams (pre-injury), Shane Battier, Carlos Boozer, Mike Dunleavy, Jr., and Chris Duhon --- that's a lineup that only 'Zona could have come close to knocking off. ESPN actually rated them the #5 team in the last 10 years (which, imo is a little low, but still) - <div class="quote_poster">Quoting "ESPN":</div><div class="quote_post">Because of the self-inflicted motorcycle accident that basically ended his NBA career, it's easy to forget how good Jason (Jay) Williams was in college. Williams was the lead man (averaging 21.6 points and 6.1 assists per game) on a team that included Shane Battier (19.9 ppg, 7.3 rpg), Carlos Boozer and Mike Dunleavy Jr. These Blue Devils shot 48 percent from the field and better than 38 percent from the arc on their way to a 35-4 national championship season that also included a share of the ACC regular-season crown and the ACC tournament title (over UNC by 26). The Devils averaged a blistering 90.7 points per game and had a huge plus-20.2 scoring margin. Three of their four losses were by two or fewer points, and all four losses were to teams ranked 16th or better. This Duke team also won all six NCAA Tournament games by double figures.</div> EDIT - Completely irrelevant, but check out how Mayo recently posterized Kobe - http://www.justbball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72427
W00T! Arizona talk for once I think this is the year Arizona puts themselves back on the map. There are no big egos now that Shakur and Marcus Williams are gone. Arizona arguably has the 2nd best frontcourt in the Pac-10 behind USC's duo of Taj Gibson & Davon Jefferson. The only thing holding Jefferson back is his grades, if he can stay eligible, then USC is a contender for Pac-10 Championship. If Kirk Walters can comeback and produce, watch out. Jordan Hill is an absolute beast defensively and on the boards. Last year, Hill showed what he could do defensively when he shut down Hawes when the Huskies came to the desert. Bayless will probably come in with the role to score because all Arizona has is Budinger and then McClellan is a question mark every game. McClellan had pretty bad knee tendinitis last year, which is why Arizona was so inconsistent. When McClellan is draining his shots, Arizona is dangerous. Then Jamelle Horne reminds me a bit of Iggy when he was coming in. An athletic swingman that finishes well, except Iggy was known for his defense. There are also all the other wildcards that could explode, like Fendi Onobun, Tangara, or Nic Wise. Even though I do like Bayless, Mayo is the better player of the two. But Brandon Jennings owned Mayo in all their meetings in AAU, too bad we won't see Mayo stay 2 years so Jennings could own him.
I don't understand how Arkansas does not make the top 25. They are returning all starters. 7' Hill, SEC Freshman of the year Patrick Beverly who is playing on team USA's JR team. The manimal who was injured in the round 1 loss to USC in the tourny, I can go on. New coach John Pelphrey who played for 'Tucky and coached under Billy Donovan has really stirred things up recruit and attention wise. Arkansas basketball is on it's way back. Returning all our starters from a NCAA tourny team and SEC championship game team.
1)UCLA 2) Memphis 3) Kansas 4) North Carolina 5) Tennessee 6) Georgetown 7) Louisville 8) Michigan State 9) Duke 10) Washington State 11) Stanford 12)Mississippi St. 13) Oregon 14) Kansas State 15) Indiana 16) Marquette 17) Alabama 18) Texas 19) Arizona 20) Tennessee 21) Kentucky 22) Davidson 23) USC 24) Wisconsin 25) Florida
<div class="quote_poster">Brutalis Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I don't understand how Arkansas does not make the top 25. They are returning all starters. 7' Hill, SEC Freshman of the year Patrick Beverly who is playing on team USA's JR team. The manimal who was injured in the round 1 loss to USC in the tourny, I can go on. New coach John Pelphrey who played for 'Tucky and coached under Billy Donovan has really stirred things up recruit and attention wise. Arkansas basketball is on it's way back. Returning all our starters from a NCAA tourny team and SEC championship game team.</div> You're right, Arkansas deserves to be ranked. They were a genuine oversight on my part. I originally did a draft of those rankings where I had them in the #10-20 range though. Beverly has actually been playing out of his mind for the U-19 team as the starting two-guard. I'm going to post an updated version of my rankings soon, in article format and with team-by-team explanations. Another team I overlooked was Syracuse. I think Flynn is the point guard they've were missing last season without McNamara, and he'll take a hell of a lot of pressure off of Devendorf, who proved last year that he's just not the type of decision maker necessary to be a full-time point. Paul Harris should see a spike in his playing time too, which is better for both him and 'Cuse. He deserved a lot more than the 22 mpg or so he got last season.
