Mock Drafts......

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THE HCP

THE HCP

NorthEastPortland'sFinest
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It was cool looking back on these mock drafts to see how right and wrong they are. Amazes me how many busts there are. We are all getting excited about our 11th pick or so and there have been so many scrubs in that area of the draft......


http://www.insidehoops.com/nba-mock-draft.shtml
 
HCP said:
It was cool looking back on these mock drafts to see how right and wrong they are. Amazes me how many busts there are. We are all getting excited about our 11th pick or so and there have been so many scrubs in that area of the draft......


http://www.insidehoops.com/nba-mock-draft.shtml
Click to expand...

I think people are excited about the chance of moving up IN the draft (due to the lottery), not the 11th spot itself.
 
This is why I'm glad we get a second crack (hopefully) at the lottery with Jersey's pick. It sort of like playing the slots, you want as many pulls as you can get and hope for the best ... now if only they had a GM
 
It seems like drafting should be a lot easier than it is. Too much emphasis is put on potential however, which only even pans out half the time.

I think the number one thing to look at is a guy's mental attitude and work ethic. All these guys have tremendous talent. A good mindset will make an average talent great (Brandon Roy), and on the contrary, a bad one will ruin a great talent (Beasley, Thabeet, OJ Mayo, the list goes on...)
 
C_note said:
I think the number one thing to look at is a guy's mental attitude and work ethic. All these guys have tremendous talent. A good mindset will make an average talent great (Brandon Roy), and on the contrary, a bad one will ruin a great talent (Beasley, Thabeet, OJ Mayo, the list goes on...)
Click to expand...
Kevin Pritchard agrees with you.
 
Yeah, I think Pritchard was a great GM. Not much success past the lottery, but it's pretty much a craps shoot after that anyways.

What the hell was he fired for anyways? Still unknown reasons/Paul Allen?
 
C_note said:
It seems like drafting should be a lot easier than it is. Too much emphasis is put on potential however, which only even pans out half the time.

I think the number one thing to look at is a guy's mental attitude and work ethic. All these guys have tremendous talent. A good mindset will make an average talent great (Brandon Roy), and on the contrary, a bad one will ruin a great talent (Beasley, Thabeet, OJ Mayo, the list goes on...)
Click to expand...

The trouble with this story is that Roy was actually an elite athlete (40" vert, great size for a 2, elite ball-handling skills, etc.)

Work ethic and competitive fire are certainly important, but if you don't have the physical tools a player's ceiling is severely limited. The league's history is littered with "high character, average athletes" that never amounted to much -- Adam Morrison, Tyler Hansbrough -- the great ones have elite physical and mental attributes.
 
Nikolokolus said:
The trouble with this story is that Roy was actually an elite athlete (40" vert, great size for a 2, elite ball-handling skills, etc.)

Work ethic and competitive fire are certainly important, but if you don't have the physical tools a player's ceiling is severely limited. The league's history is littered with "high character, average athletes" that never amounted to much -- Adam Morrison, Tyler Hansbrough -- the great ones have elite physical and mental attributes.
Click to expand...

I knew someone would bring this argument. I don't agree fully..

Elite level in the NBA for a SG I'd say is 45+ vert....40 is above-average. 35 is around average roughly...elite is "best of the best", right?

Roy had average size for a 2. Also at that point in his career, no one knew he had elite ball-handling skills. That wasn't evident until he got to the NBA level and started ripping apart the opponent's back court, night in and night out.

But that's not my point. All of these guys in the lotto are typically "elite" athletes. Roy's athleticism didn't blow anyone away. If it did, he would have gone higher. He was more "average", as far as comparing elite athletes goes.

So I'm operating under the assumption that, as long there is not a large gap between athleticism and the mental stuff (Morrison and others), teams should give more preference to the mental aspects of a guy.

Ideally you want a good balance of both though, and Roy is the perfect example.
 
julius said:
I think people are excited about the chance of moving up IN the draft (due to the lottery), not the 11th spot itself.
Click to expand...

I didn't mean people were excited for the 11th pick....... just the fact that people (including myself) are pumped because we are possibly going to have 2 nice lottery picks. This link shows how much the draft is a crapshoot! Experts don't even know what is really gonna' happen.
 
elite for a SG is a 45+ vert? wtf. so....nobody? Average size for a 2?

his athleticism didn't blow people away because of his style. He was not just an average athlete, he was above average, he just has a more cerebral game. Doesn't mean the athleticism wasn't there.
 
Yes 6'5 is average for a SG. MJ, dominique, those guys have elite verts. I'd say anything 42 or above is truly elite. 45 is a little high. Although there's plenty of nba players you could find with 45 or more.

And here you go, for your reference.

e·lite
   [ih-leet, ey-leet] Show IPA
noun
1.
( often used with a plural verb ) the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons.
2.
( used with a plural verb ) persons of the highest class: Only the elite were there.
adjective
5.
representing the most choice or select; best: an elite group of authors.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Plenty over 45? Really.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre...All&sort2=DESC&draft=&pos=&source=All&sort=12
Click to expand...

Ok maybe not plenty, but there were some. Jordan was 48, Spud Webb 46, Steve Francis 46, I'm sure there are others.Wilt Chamberlain was said to have a 48 inch vert

But my point the entire time was, 40" is not extraordinary amongst elite athletes. There are at least a handful of guys around this level every year. Athleticism means nothing if the guy is an idiot.

Although I do admit 45+ is outlier territory.
 
I'd be happy with a Paul George caliber player with the 11th pick.
 
C_note said:
Ok maybe not plenty, but there were some. Jordan was 48, Spud Webb 46, Steve Francis 46, I'm sure there are others.Wilt Chamberlain was said to have a 48 inch vert

But my point the entire time was, 40" is not extraordinary amongst elite athletes. There are at least a handful of guys around this level every year. Athleticism means nothing if the guy is an idiot.

Although I do admit 45+ is outlier territory.
Click to expand...

It's not just his vertical jump, it was his elite shot creating ability and elite ambidexterity that made him an elite physical specimen. Yes, he also had an elite mental makeup and worked very hard at his craft, but it's not like people can just will themselves to have great hand-eye-coordination or dexterity; that's part of their "athleticism"
 
C_note said:
Roy had average size for a 2.
Click to expand...

He was 6-7 and as husky as a PF. McMillan played him half his minutes at SF. His great size made him quite the inside player.
 
HCP said:
I didn't mean people were excited for the 11th pick....... just the fact that people (including myself) are pumped because we are possibly going to have 2 nice lottery picks. This link shows how much the draft is a crapshoot! Experts don't even know what is really gonna' happen.
Click to expand...

This is why I don't like tanking (unless situation like now with handful of games left and out of playoffs).

It is such a crap shoot that the difference in a few draft spots vs. losing game after game after game doesn't seem worht it.
 
Nikolokolus said:
It's not just his vertical jump, it was his elite shot creating ability and elite ambidexterity that made him an elite physical specimen. Yes, he also had an elite mental makeup and worked very hard at his craft, but it's not like people can just will themselves to have great hand-eye-coordination or dexterity; that's part of their "athleticism"
Click to expand...

Plus, when he came out of HS and was thinking of the draft (due to academic issues), he was seen mostly as a high flyer, not the methodical killer we knew him to be as a Blazer. So he had elite athleticism, even if he chose not to show it all the time.


jlprk said:
He was 6-7 and as husky as a PF. McMillan played him half his minutes at SF. His great size made him quite the inside player.
Click to expand...

When was this? Maybe for very short spurts, but his Sr season we had Brockman, Mike Jensen and Jamaal Williams as bigs. They all played a lot. Plus, Bobby Jones was the main 3. Brandon played mostly at the 2.
 
^ I think he was saying that Brandon was one of the strongest 2 guards in the game.
 
Nikolokolus said:
It's not just his vertical jump, it was his elite shot creating ability and elite ambidexterity that made him an elite physical specimen. Yes, he also had an elite mental makeup and worked very hard at his craft, but it's not like people can just will themselves to have great hand-eye-coordination or dexterity; that's part of their "athleticism"
Click to expand...

Ya I agree, vertical is overrated as far as athleticism goes. But no one knew Roy had so much potential, I think his attitude played the biggest part for him in realizing it, not so much his innate abilities.
 
6'7? Roy is 6'5 without shoes, 6'6 with...average SG.
 
C_note said:
Ya I agree, vertical is overrated as far as athleticism goes. But no one knew Roy had so much potential, I think his attitude played the biggest part for him in realizing it, not so much his innate abilities.
Click to expand...

Roy had injury issues at Washington and there were concerns about his knees holding up when he entered the draft which pushed him down the board ... being a senior also had people concerned that he might have been close to maxed out in terms of potential. Beyond that if he didn't have the level of body control and physical attributes he possessed he'd just be another Adam Morrison story.
 
Nikolokolus said:
Roy had injury issues at Washington and there were concerns about his knees holding up when he entered the draft which pushed him down the board ... being a senior also had people concerned that he might have been close to maxed out in terms of potential. Beyond that if he didn't have the level of body control and physical attributes he possessed he'd just be another Adam Morrison story.
Click to expand...

What other player on the Blazers who was supposed to be a physical beast and have good body control(this one is a tad bit of a reach since he was always considered clumsy) is essentially another Adam Morrison but playing a different position? Oh hello Thabeet.
 
Rhal said:
What other player on the Blazers who was supposed to be a physical beast and have good body control(this one is a tad bit of a reach since he was always considered clumsy) is essentially another Adam Morrison but playing a different position? Oh hello Thabeet.
Click to expand...

Thabust? Oh hell no, that guy was slow as molasses at UConn and people were saying way before the draft that Memphis was about to reach big time. All Thabeet has is fantastic height and very subpar quickness and motor. You even said it yourself that he was considered clumsy ... that ain't "good body control."
 
Nikolokolus said:
Thabust? Oh hell no, that guy was slow as molasses at UConn and people were saying way before the draft that Memphis was about to reach big time. All Thabeet has is fantastic height and very subpar quickness and motor. You even said it yourself that he was considered clumsy ... that ain't "good body control."
Click to expand...

Draftexpress called this a year before he declared.

Saying that their scouts say he's a reach for a second round pick.

On draft day there was a NCAA analyst who said he'd take Thabeet #1 over Blake because he was going to be Mutombo.
 
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