If Marcus goes pro...

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STOMP said:
was he really? I wouldn't have guessed being a short unathletic pocket passer was the rage with NFL GMs these days. Those facts would have been revealed by the combine regardless of when he declared. Baring injury, I'm pretty sure the combine will reveal facts that only drives the interest in Mariota up.

I can recall chatter about Barkley's draft prospects not living up to the LA hype prior to him deciding to come back and lose in the Sun Bowl to Georgia Tech.

STOMP
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Hmm, everything I had heard was that he was a high pick, but he never did do the combine, so you might be right. Do you think that's why Barkley didn't declare?
 
Natebishop3 said:
Hmm, everything I had heard was that he was a high pick, but he never did do the combine, so you might be right. Do you think that's why Barkley didn't declare?
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who really knows? When listing reasons he came back for his Sr year, he noted his family is already really wealthy, so the allure of an NFL contract wasn't the carrot for him that it is for others... he was already set financially. I'm sure that being a starting QB at a big time college program is pretty great. He didn't have his degree yet. Maybe being realistic about his draft prospects factored in too, but even if so I'd guess that was down the list.

STOMP
 
Dan Patrick once again pushing the "Mariota as #1 pick" storyline this morning, this time during an interview with Dungy. Dungy calling Mariota a franchise player, a special player, a legit 4.45 guy who also makes great decisions.
 
Marcus will be the greatest Duck QB EVER! He's a mix of M Vick speed with Montana touch and that comes along almost never in a 6'4 package! That said he needs another year to learn one skill, how to come out of his shell and lead men with larger than life egos. He wont be ready for that in 6 months at the ripe age of 20 years old.
 
If you want to listen to the Dan Patrick interview with Dungy, the part about MM starts at the 8:40 mark.

[video=youtube;VYCau_D7fsk]
 
Serious question: what do people see in Mariota that makes them think he is a better prospect than Harrington was?
 
oldmangrouch said:
Serious question: what do people see in Mariota that makes them think he is a better prospect than Harrington was?
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I love Harrington but Mariota is a lot more athletic. Harrington was also drafted #3 after 4 years at Oregon. If you look at Harrington in his 2nd year there is no comparison with Mariota this year or even Mariota's freshman year. I also think Harrington wasn't given the best situation with the Lions and after failing he lost confidence and never was given a real chance in the NFL again.
 
I would say the one thing you can't teach, Marcus is unflappable and doesn't force, he takes what is given and capitalizes on it in ways Joey was unable to do. That and he's faster, has more touch on his ball and has freakishly long fingers which helps a bunch with ball control and zip.

That said I think Joey got a raw deal in Detroit and we many never know how good he could have been. He was running for his life for years!
 
Joey Harrington had something that Marcus has not yet shown.

Leadership.

Joey could make you believe, regardless of the odds. I'm not even sure how many comebacks he led, but the guy was just amazing. He walked into Detroit as a rookie and took an absolutely shitty team and actually won a few games.

No, he wasn't nearly the athlete that Marcus is. Not even close. Overall, I think Marcus has the best chance of any Oregon QB to be successful in the NFL, but Joey had that ability to always keep the Ducks in the game. He never gave up, and he'd lead a team through the gates of Hell if he had to. I will always have very fond memories of his Duck team.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Joey Harrington had something that Marcus has not yet shown.

Leadership.

Joey could make you believe, regardless of the odds. I'm not even sure how many comebacks he led, but the guy was just amazing. He walked into Detroit as a rookie and took an absolutely shitty team and actually won a few games.

No, he wasn't nearly the athlete that Marcus is. Not even close. Overall, I think Marcus has the best chance of any Oregon QB to be successful in the NFL, but Joey had that ability to always keep the Ducks in the game. He never gave up, and he'd lead a team through the gates of Hell if he had to. I will always have very fond memories of his Duck team.
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Very well said. You managed to capture what I had been thinking.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Joey Harrington had something that Marcus has not yet shown.

Leadership.
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In the Tony Dungy link which you just relayed, one of the first things he lists when talking about MM's top shelf NFL prospects is his leadership ability. Of course, TD knows Marcus up close and personal from practice & the locker room and he's got some decent insight into what makes a good leader in the NFL.

No Marcus hasn't led the Ducks to nearly as many comeback wins as Joey did. Instead he's led them to blowout wins where he's sliced and diced worthy opponents in the first half. Both Duck QBs led their respective teams to final #2 rankings and BCS wins. I get that you fondly recall Joey Heisman's era, but I don't get why you're bad mouthing MM over this... do you have any examples of his lack of leadership? I doubt he goes into broadcasting after his playing days are through as he doesn't have Joey's bubbly personality or natural ease in front of the camera, but those traits are hardly the only way to be an effective leader of a team.

STOMP
 
Natebishop3 said:
Hmm, everything I had heard was that he was a high pick, but he never did do the combine, so you might be right. Do you think that's why Barkley didn't declare?
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At one time he was rated the #2 QB of the draft after his Jr season. He stayed, sucked, and fell appreciably. But that was his choice to suck and have a crappy attitude. MM is way better with respect to attitude.
 
STOMP said:
In the Tony Dungy link which you just relayed, one of the first things he lists when talking about MM's top shelf NFL prospects is his leadership ability. Of course, TD knows Marcus up close and personal from practice & the locker room and he's got some decent insight into what makes a good leader in the NFL.

No Marcus hasn't led the Ducks to nearly as many comeback wins as Joey did. Instead he's led them to blowout wins where he's sliced and diced worthy opponents in the first half. Both Duck QBs led their respective teams to final #2 rankings and BCS wins. I get that you fondly recall Joey Heisman's era, but I don't get why you're bad mouthing MM over this... do you have any examples of his lack of leadership? I doubt he goes into broadcasting after his playing days are through as he doesn't have Joey's bubbly personality or natural ease in front of the camera, but those traits are hardly the only way to be an effective leader of a team.

STOMP
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I don't really mean that he has no leadership skills at all, but that Joey was a natural born leader, and was very inspirational in the huddle and on the sidelines. I've heard MM mention repeatedly in interviews that he's naturally a very quiet guy who keeps to himself, and that the coaches have had to push him to be more vocal with his teammates. I think he's probably more of a lead-by-example type of player, which is fine, but Harrington was the kind of QB that could lift up the entire team with his "bubbly personality." Mariota is still very young, and I'm sure he's improved quite a bit over the last 1.5 years, but I think he has a long way to go before he can be compared to Harrington in that department.

I just haven't really seen that kind of leadership from Marcus yet. It seemed like he wilted under pressure against Stanford last year, but he was a freshman, so it's understandable. Harrington didn't take over as the starting QB until his junior year, so he was obviously much older than MM at that point. Mariota hasn't really been faced with a ton of adversity. The team has blown out most of their opponents, so he hasn't really had to keep the team focused and motivated when they're already down and it isn't looking good. That's really what I'm talking about.

I don't know why you think this is bad mouthing him. He's a far better QB overall than Harrington. I said I think he's going to be much more successful in the NFL than Harrington was. I just haven't seen the kind of leadership out of him that I saw from Joey.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I don't really mean that he has no leadership skills at all, but that Joey was a natural born leader, and was very inspirational in the huddle and on the sidelines. I've heard MM mention repeatedly in interviews that he's naturally a very quiet guy who keeps to himself, and that the coaches have had to push him to be more vocal with his teammates. I think he's probably more of a lead-by-example type of player, which is fine, but Harrington was the kind of QB that could lift up the entire team with his "bubbly personality." Mariota is still very young, and I'm sure he's improved quite a bit over the last 1.5 years, but I think he has a long way to go before he can be compared to Harrington in that department.
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He has a long way to go before some fan's impression changes. An independent expert who knows him very well (Dungy) sites his leadership as one of the reasons he could go #1 overall. Who to trust?

I don't know why you think this is bad mouthing him.
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you really don't think saying "Marcus hasn't shown leadership yet" is bad mouthing him? Granted it's not saying Marcus sucks, but it's not exactly high praise. It reads exactly like you were bashing him about something I don't think any of us mere fans have a real clue about. Hell, for all I know many of Joey's teammates could have hated him

STOMP
 
STOMP said:
He has a long way to go before some fan's impression changes. An independent expert who knows him very well (Dungy) sites his leadership as one of the reasons he could go #1 overall. Who to trust?



you really don't think saying "Marcus hasn't shown leadership yet" is bad mouthing him? Granted it's not saying Marcus sucks, but it's not exactly high praise. It reads exactly like you were bashing him about something I don't think any of us mere fans have a real clue about. Hell, for all I know many of Joey's teammates could have hated him

STOMP
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I think that leadership is one thing that he needs to work on. He's a quiet guy. He has admitted it himself. He has said the coaches have encouraged him to be more vocal. That's from his own mouth. I've seen him making an effort on the sidelines, so obviously he is improving. With that said, I think it's the one thing that Harrington has over Mariota. You obviously disagree, that's your opinion. How do you quantify leadership? It's all based on opinions, and I have mine. Dungy has his. You have yours.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I think that leadership is one thing that he needs to work on. He's a quiet guy. He has admitted it himself. He has said the coaches have encouraged him to be more vocal. That's from his own mouth. I've seen him making an effort on the sidelines, so obviously he is improving. With that said, I think it's the one thing that Harrington has over Mariota. You obviously disagree, that's your opinion. How do you quantify leadership? It's all based on opinions, and I have mine. Dungy has his. You have yours.
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mine is that smart esteemed and relatively unbiased people who actually know the person are in a lot better position to judge them the rest of us outside the fishbowl. I don't pretend to know how Marcus or Joey are really viewed inside the locker room by their teammates because I don't know and it should be obvious to the rest of us outside the fishbowl that if I do make that claim I'm posturing

Teammates always glow about their teammates in interviews, if they don't it's a story. Smart players often downplay their act to the press to come off as humble/likeable. Hell, I thought OJ was a good guy. The point is we have a pretty blurry lens to view our heros through

Whats a good leader? Well I've always thought the Joe Cool focused competitive grinder type of personality that Montana displayed is the best type to have leading your team. The rah rah emotional types often seem to be overcome by the moment when the spotlight shines brightest and I've seen people rally around the calm cool and collected many times. As Dungy noted, MM makes good decisions under pressure and also brings ideal size and athleticism. He's been killing it since his first start... you really think guys are having any issues at all following him?

STOMP
 
STOMP said:
Whats a good leader? Well I've always thought the Joe Cool focused competitive grinder type of personality that Montana displayed is the best type to have leading your team. The rah rah emotional types often seem to be overcome by the moment when the spotlight shines brightest and I've seen people rally around the calm cool and collected many times. As Dungy noted, MM makes good decisions under pressure and also brings ideal size and athleticism. He's been killing it since his first start... you really think guys are having any issues at all following him?

STOMP
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I work with a 3-time All American LB who lost his shot at the pros due to an injured shoulder and he was telling me the rah rah QB types drive everyone nuts. But equally so do the church mouse types. He believes the best leaders are the 'have it all together' types who play smart, compete hard (and not stupid) and get results. The kind you never want to let down as a fellow teammate. I think Montana was a perfect example. I think MM is more the church mouse type to a certain degree. Perhaps as he gets more comfortable being 'the man' he will become a Montana prototype. But first he has to prove himself at the pro level. I read that Joey was the big rah rah type and teammates really disliked that about him.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I'm just not thinking he'll be back next year.
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I think it would be pretty stupid to skip out on being a top5 pick. That is millions of dollars you could be flushing away. Luck was a rare guy that really enjoyed college and could afford the insurance. I'm not sure how much those cost but if you can afford to buy it for injuries or slipping draft stock that is the only way he should stay. Or if his stock slips and he won't be a high pick.
 
How many 20 years olds make it in the NFL as a starting QB? I don't know, just thought it might be a factor when leading full grown men.

I think it could be 26.5 as an average age, but what's in a college degree and a masters worth of football knowledge at that level? I'm sure going to an awful NFL team with a crappy O line will increase Marcus's overall chances of success and starting all of what, three years of football in life can be completely overlooked. Cheers to that!


Or let him develop another year, get his degree, groom Morgan and have the best backfield in the nation to create with.
 
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Ya know what Peyton and Eli Manning, Rivers, Brees, Brady and Wilson all have in common? 4 years of college and a degree..... Even Roethlisberger had 3 years.... I'd say that's the who's who of NFL QB's today!
 
To me Mariota reminds a bit of Aaron Rodgers. Not saying that he'll be as good but he just reminds me of him. Their release and footwork in the pocket are very similar, Rodgers is more accurate, maybe stronger arm too, Mariota is more mobile. I don't know that's just my comparison.
 
I think he's the #1 pick in this draft, especially if he wins the Heisman. Clowney has really dropped the ball this year. He's showing to be very immature. Reminds me a bit of Nick Fairley.
 
I see Mariota staying one more year. You only go to college once, and he has room to improve. Unless the Bucs grab a QB guru in a Greg Roman as a HC, I don't see him declaring.

Besides, the Bucs' facilities are supposed to be garbage
 
I wonder how much insurance costs? If he is a top5 pick I can't imagine it being worth the risk of putting that beating on your body an extra year but if he can find the money to get insurance and doesn't have poor relatives to take care of... Well there are other QB's like Luck, Leinert, Barkley who've done it.
 
Draco said:
I wonder how much insurance costs? If he is a top5 pick I can't imagine it being worth the risk of putting that beating on your body an extra year but if he can find the money to get insurance and doesn't have poor relatives to take care of... Well there are other QB's like Luck, Leinert, Barkley who've done it.
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Even with the insurance, it's a risky proposition, because the insurance only pays out for career-ending injuries. If he suffered an injury that severely impeded his draft-stock, or his game as a whole, but he was still able to play at the pro level, he would realize no benefit from the policy.
 
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