What if I told you no one is going to hell?

Hahaha..MarAzul, much respect my friend. I would ask you this. Why is it unreasonable for there to be conditions that must be met in the Christian faith, yet totally reasonable for there to be the same tests and acts that must be met in all other faiths?

 

Because the implication is if (a perfect, morally consistent) God actually existed events would have been different than described.

 

Well, in my reading that I have done, as much as I can in all of them, I think I only find you need to follow the rules to be faithful. Only the Christian religion has this tight requirement that you believe, this man Jesus is God and if you don't get his approval you are not of the faithful.

Actually, not all Christian interpret the Roman Road and Matthew that tight. and the Jews of course can't. Actually I can't, but I don't lose much sleep over it. I just chalk it off to be a man that does the best he can.

 

Sorry for the late reply, but I had a customer I had to attend to.

Well if we believe in the Trinity (God the father, son and holy spirit), then our soul is just as much God as our own. If he sends us to "hell" or "The Lake of Fire", he is also sending himself there as well.

When God breathed in us "The breath of life" and gave us a "soul", that was part of him.

This is why I believe God sent him "His son" to Earth to make the final sacrifice, so no part of him must pay for the sin of man.

 

Not all "Christians" believe this. And breaking down "Christian" is to be "Christ-like". That connection to me is understanding "Christ's" walk. Was his message "You are going to hell if you don't believe in me" or "Love thy neighbor and enemies"?

I think this "Roman's Road" is not the series of events you must go through before you get to Heaven. Instead, understanding what Christ has done and welcoming him into your life, connects you with him so he may take the burden of death away from you.

 

That is a one sided assumption. As I have said many times... Free will is what has become the imperfection. It wasn't his mistake that we choose to sin, since it is our choice.

The finality of perfection is after his ultimate sacrifice. That sacrifice paid the price for all Sin.

 

hummm not so, Mar..Every religion is based upon belief in a Messiah figure..every religion, you must follow the path set before you to be accepted or rewarded in the next life..

I know you are an educated man, I believe you when you say you have read some on other religions..you know I speak the truth. Requirements of faith and belief are the foundation of religions.

 

Thank you Mags
but I think I will be ok.

 

I believe you will brother...

 

It was god's choice to make us imperfect, in this belief system. If that idea is that our free will cannot exist if we were made perfect, that leads to the question: is god perfect? If so, does it have free will?

Most Christian conceptions of god speak to its perfection. I've never seen a Christian broach the subject of whether god has free will, but I've always assumed that they'd believe it does. If so, that illustrates that one can both be perfect and have free will. If not, well, that's interesting...what would constrain an omnipotent and omniscient god's choices?

 

And you too sir.

 

Perhaps we should or I should have a broader view. But I think we both will be ok.

 

I believe so as well.I do not confuse religion with the belief in God.

 

I have battled this same concept for the many years of being a Christian (since 1987). You can go even further and say "God made Satan and the angels weren't supposed to have free will, yet Satan rebelled against God"

I have a theory if you want to hear it. It's a little wacko though.

 

I may not be an adherent to any organized religion, but I'm always interested and willing to discuss religious concepts (like god) as a philosophical endeavor.

So lay your crazy theory on me.

 

This is an adoption of some "Buddhist" philosophy, but is also an empirical "mainstream view". I call it my "push-pull theory!"

For every action, there is a reaction. For every yin, there is a yang.

A perfect God must have a balance of imperfection in this universe. When God created the universe, for all good, there must be just as much evil or the universe is in unbalance. So a perfect God "outside the realm of this universe" understood the reality of the universe and created just as much "evil" as "good". There needed to be Satan, demons, whatever you want to call it. And the "free will" we have as humans had this balance.

If you look into the Christian philosophy, it is a constant battle of flesh "SIN" over spirit "Perfection". If you feed the flesh, then your sin weakens your spirit. If you feed the spirit, you "SIN" becomes weaken. On the "end days" when Jesus takes back the world, the concept of this earth as we know it changes completely. The unbalance is not in the "closed system" of Earth, but balanced throughout the Universe.

 

no it's a logical deduction that a morally consistent God would not command genocide (etc.)

this is a different subject, but worth contemplating how much free will choice can actually be involved if every one of the 100+ billion people that have ever lived "chose" to sin.

 

If you believe that Earth if the "closed system". We live in a much larger scale. Earth is but a speck of the universe we know today.

EDIT: need to explain this a bit more.
When God created the universe, he had to balance it. And with that, the choice of "free will" to genocide is just as moral as the sun consuming earth. Is that moral? At what extent do you consider what is moral?

They have chosen Sin. I doubt there is a single person on this planet that hasn't sinned once in their life.

 

Why do you feel their must be a "balance?" Who's enforcing this requirement and/or what would happen if the universe were entirely "good" or "benevolent" or "ordered?" The idea that balance is a requirement that binds even a god's hands would seem to undermine the idea of an omnipotent god.

 

God's "Omnipotence" has nothing to do with this universe when he is outside this "closed system" called the universe. And as most Physicists believe, the entire map of time from beginning to infinity has been laid our like a map. As the saying goes, for what has happened, happened and what will happen has already happened. The omnipotent can view the entire map, being outside the universe.

As for God being bound... I disagree. The universe as a whole is in perfect balance. The entire value of the universe is zero. For every negative energy, there is positive energy. Even the slightest unbalance could completely destroy the fabric of this universe as we see it.