Miami Heat Dame Trade Ideas and Rumors

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Ed O, Jul 2, 2023.

  1. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2008
    Messages:
    17,934
    Likes Received:
    15,150
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's my thinking as well... if Scoot pops and Sharpe takes a step forward and we could get Ayton for Nurk and change we could be nearly as good by keeping the young guys with Dame.

    Especially if we could get a fair return out of Simons...
     
    BIG Q and julius like this.
  2. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    33,744
    Likes Received:
    42,853
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not really a relevant question, since that's not Bones' claim. The claim is that Cronin didn't actually make any effort to gauge Brown's availability. It's not about whether he had an opportunity to pull the trigger on a deal; it's about whether or not he ever even put the scope on his rifle.
     
    Bob Dobalina and Phatguysrule like this.
  3. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2014
    Messages:
    7,571
    Likes Received:
    11,240
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Saying this for years
    I'm still trying to figure out why Bones isn't calling Dame a liar, because he promised to stay with the Blazers and try to bring a championship to Portland.

    How is that different than Cronin seeing the cards he's dealt and concluding the move most likely to win a title is drafting the oft-considered transcendent talent instead of trading him and so much more to get OG Anunoby?
     
  4. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2014
    Messages:
    7,571
    Likes Received:
    11,240
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Saying this for years
    Well, Dame also told the public that there were difference-makers around the league who wanted to come to Portland to play by his side.

    Maybe that was a lie, too ....
     
  5. superfly4201

    superfly4201 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2008
    Messages:
    199
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Any GM is certainly going to listed to an offer, assuming there was one. But if it starts out that we want Ant, #3 and Sharpe for Brown you say thanks but no thanks. This narrative that Brown wanted to come here and Joe wouldn’t listen is crap. Boston thought they could fleece us and Joe shut it down like he should. Then they had to back up the truck and grossly overpay Brown. There stuck doing the same with Tatum next year and are screwed.
     
    Bob Dobalina, riverman, BIG Q and 5 others like this.
  6. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2008
    Messages:
    17,934
    Likes Received:
    15,150
    Trophy Points:
    113
    But Cronin can't force a trade to happen. If guys aren't available he can't trade for them.

    Who was traded that would have been a needle mover for us? I've seen no evidence there was a better move available than just drafting Sharpe, Scoot, and signing Grant.
     
    BIG Q likes this.
  7. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2014
    Messages:
    7,571
    Likes Received:
    11,240
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Saying this for years
    I'm trying to figure exactly how that would work. If there was any real opportunity to get Brown without bankrupting our roster and draft picks and to keep Dame in the process, you'd have to postulate Cronin was both incompetent and Machiavellian not to at least put his antenna out there.

    I just have a very, very, very hard time thinking Cronin didn't even look into something that would have kept the organization's most popular player ever here and had the fanbase optimistic of contending this year because he was for some unknown reason determined to reset the franchise with no guarantees how that would work out.
     
    Graduate32 and BIG Q like this.
  8. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2014
    Messages:
    7,571
    Likes Received:
    11,240
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Saying this for years
    What Bones is saying is that Cronin never even asked if Brown was available for a price, though. Now, I find that incredibly unlikely, but that's what he's saying, that Cronin basically pretended Brown didn't exist, ignored his potential to be acquired completely.
     
    Natebishop3 and Phatguysrule like this.
  9. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2008
    Messages:
    17,934
    Likes Received:
    15,150
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Cronin made it very clear, very publicly, that he was looking for deals. Dame made that happen.

    We all knew Portland was looking to deal.

    There were no reports that the Blazers were turning people away or hanging up on people. Or being unreasonable in any way.

    I don't blame Dame for being disappointed that nothing happened. I don't blame him for requesting a trade.

    But I also don't blame Cronin for any of this. From my perspective he's been pretty logical so far.
     
    Mote, 42N8Bounce, RR7 and 2 others like this.
  10. PCmor7

    PCmor7 Generational Poster

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2014
    Messages:
    7,571
    Likes Received:
    11,240
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Saying this for years
    All I'm saying is what Bones is suggesting.

    Again, to me that seems so highly unlikely that it'd take one of the biggest conspiracies in NBA history for it to be true.

    You have to believe Cronin signed Lillard to the giant extension while not wanting him on the team, acquired two players in the offseason that Dame wanted with him on the team, re-signed one of those players to a contract that could be argued exceeded his value all while pulling off a performance that would make Bradley Cooper envious.

    Regardless of what info Bones or Hoopjock got, you have to explain all of this, bearing in mind that Cronin didn't have to do any of it. The Blazers could have been in exactly the same situation they are now minus the acrimony. It pretty much requires Cronin to deliberately dislike Dame from the start and doing everything he could to hurt him. Cronin basically would have to be a psychopath. There are a lot more logical explanations for why the Blazers are where they are now that don't involve Cronin's life goal revolving around trying to ruin Damian Lillard's.
     
    RickyJoe, Mote, Bob Dobalina and 11 others like this.
  11. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2008
    Messages:
    17,934
    Likes Received:
    15,150
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Agreed
     
    RickyJoe, BIG Q and PCmor7 like this.
  12. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2018
    Messages:
    9,710
    Likes Received:
    8,812
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Very well said.

    I suspect Cronin said general things like he would be aggressive and get player such as x to win now or go after player y. But when it came time for actual offers the other teams wanted more than Cronin expected, Cronin realized the #3 pick was worth way more than expected, and who knows what other restrictions ownership/vulcans/etc ultimate had.

    Dame probably doesn't care at all about the expected value of first round picks relative to the salary cap and luxury tax, but Cronin and the assistant GM's have to pay very close attention to this especially with the new CBA that was implemented in the middle of these last 2 seasons.

    Cronin really has no motive to screw Dame over, as if he wanted him to ultimately request a trade, which is basically the obvious end game of this summer, it would've made more sense to just say that 2 years ago and work to trade him then. Just seems like Cronin wanted to build a contender around Dame but was not able to.

    Sometimes plans just don't work out and you have to make the best new plans with your situation. You shouldn't be held hostage by what you thought would happen previously; now that it is a different situation.
     
  13. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    22,788
    Likes Received:
    35,228
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't see why anybody in this story has to be lying

    you can have intentions and plans; might be strong intentions....and circumstances change that alter intentions

    Cronin could have told Dame he'd do everything he could to assemble a contender as long as it made sense for Portland. I'd imagine he said something just like that. What Dame could have heard Cronin say, after his ears had been conditioned by the decade of GM malpractice and snake oil of Olshey, was "we'll do anything, everything, to put a contender around you". Cronin could have inserted plenty of wiggle words between the lines, due diligence wiggle words, that allowed for multiple paths forward. And Dame simply didn't hear those wiggle words because of impatience after years of patience

    Blazers had Josh Hart, the kind of veteran Dame likes; they had a 7th pick; and they had a 3rd + 23rd pick. And they had all that at the same time Cronin was talking repeatedly about building a team around Dame. They traded away the veteran, and they didn't trade any of the three picks for other veterans. That may have been the best path forward each time but I sure can see how Dame would view that as a betrayal, especially if Cronin was saying the same things to Dame in private he was saying publicly

    still doesn't mean anybody is a liar
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2023
    RickyJoe, Eastoff, PCmor7 and 6 others like this.
  14. Propagandist

    Propagandist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2017
    Messages:
    3,875
    Likes Received:
    7,243
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Seriously, what in the goddamn hell is going on with our GMs? Let’s get a professional in there.
     
    Bob Dobalina and BonesJones like this.
  15. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    14,824
    Likes Received:
    15,887
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Very well said by both of you. I realize we all want the best deal possible and that might take a lot more patience but I cannot wait for the day we can stop talking about this shit and start talking about the young team that we'll have playing unencumbered by these unfortunate complications.
     
    SharpesTriumph and Propagandist like this.
  16. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Messages:
    14,824
    Likes Received:
    15,887
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's our ownership or lack thereof since technically we just have an executor of an estate overseeing our team. Someday we'll get new ownership that will really want to put a stamp on our team and that's when we'll be able to expect ambitious choices and bold action.
     
    SharpesTriumph and Phatguysrule like this.
  17. Samuel

    Samuel James “Hollywood” Robinson

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,864
    Likes Received:
    1,759
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well put!
     
    Phatguysrule and PCmor7 like this.
  18. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Messages:
    44,488
    Likes Received:
    38,530
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    You're asking us to explain things we never said bro. "Bones is suggesting" ... "You have to believe" ... You're putting words in my mouth that were never said.

    From what Eric's said, in the past year Cronin grew tired of the pressure Dame was putting on him, and grew more enamored with the thought of an Anfernee Simons and Shaedon Sharpe backcourt of the future. He was talking about this intel to me privately last season and we didn't believe it and never reported it. Turns out it was right, and he had an easy out that made Jody happy because they won't be in the tax for the foreseeable future.
     
  19. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Messages:
    44,488
    Likes Received:
    38,530
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    Dame signing the contract was based on certain pretenses that changed in the past year. Dame even said they no longer wanted the same thing. His belief that they wanted to build a winner around him is why he signed that contract. That changed and Dame has basically said as much.

    As far as Cronin goes:
    - He talked about being super aggressive in building around Dame and needing more vets, but decided to stop taking calls for the 3rd pick days before the draft despite the common sense that his best offers would come when Portland's on the clock at 3 and had Scoot Henderson available.
    - He didn't move any other picks, or get future 1sts back
    - He said on draft night that they had to do well in free agency, then after he did absolutely nothing, admitted that his goal was never to be super active in free agency because of the market.

    This it the tip of the iceberg as far as what we've heard, but I figured I'd give you something that is public and provable. Eric was hearing two weeks before the draft about how Portland didn't want to shop the pick and we even had a stream about it where we warned people about it. You can believe what you want, but try to avoid turning a misunderstanding between our points of view into something where you're putting words in our mouths.
     
  20. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Messages:
    44,488
    Likes Received:
    38,530
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    I can't wait either, it's exhausting.
     
    blazerkor likes this.

Share This Page