OT Roe V Wade In Trouble

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by Chris Craig, Nov 28, 2021.

  1. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    32,785
    Likes Received:
    22,849
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    The AZ supreme court decision would seem to be a huge gift politically, assuming abortion rights makes it onto the ballot this fall.

    barfo
     
    Phatguysrule and SlyPokerDog like this.
  2. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    116,760
    Likes Received:
    114,817
    Trophy Points:
    115
  3. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    116,760
    Likes Received:
    114,817
    Trophy Points:
    115
  4. jonnyboy

    jonnyboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Messages:
    5,549
    Likes Received:
    4,874
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Wyoming
    “Pregnant ladies going to see the gynecologist” must be the ‘soft’ approach to describing abortion.
     
  5. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    116,760
    Likes Received:
    114,817
    Trophy Points:
    115
    As Abortion Laws Drive Obstetricians From Red States, Maternity Care Suffers
    Some doctors who handle high-risk pregnancies are fleeing restrictive abortion laws. Idaho has been particularly hard hit.

    One by one, doctors who handle high-risk pregnancies are disappearing from Idaho — part of a wave of obstetricians fleeing restrictive abortion laws and a hostile state legislature. Dr. Caitlin Gustafson, a family doctor who also delivers babies in the tiny mountain town of McCall, is among those left behind, facing a lonely and uncertain future.

    When caring for patients with pregnancy complications, Dr. Gustafson seeks counsel from maternal-fetal medicine specialists in Boise, the state capital two hours away. But two of the experts she relied on as backup have packed up their young families and moved away, one to Minnesota and the other to Colorado.

    All told, more than a dozen labor and delivery doctors — including five of Idaho’s nine longtime maternal-fetal experts — will have either left or retired by the end of this year. Dr. Gustafson says the departures have made a bad situation worse, depriving both patients and doctors of moral support and medical advice.

    Texas, Oklahoma and Tennessee, obstetricians — including highly skilled doctors who specialize in handling complex and risky pregnancies — are leaving their practices. Some newly minted doctors are avoiding states like Idaho.

    The departures may result in new maternity care deserts, or areas that lack any maternity care, and they are placing strains on physicians like Dr. Gustafson who are left behind. The effects are particularly pronounced in rural areas, where many hospitals are shuttering obstetrics units for economic reasons. Restrictive abortion laws, experts say, are making that problem much worse.

    “This isn’t an issue about abortion,” said Dr. Stella Dantas, the president-elect of the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists. “This is an issue about access to comprehensive obstetric and gynecologic care. When you restrict access to care that is based in science, that everybody should have access to — that has a ripple effect.”

    Idaho doctors operate under a web of abortion laws, including a 2020 “trigger law” that went into effect after the Supreme Court eliminated the constitutional right to abortion by overturning Roe v. Wade last year. Together, they create one of the strictest abortion bans in the nation. Doctors who primarily provide abortion care are not the only medical professionals affected; the laws are also impinging on doctors whose primary work is to care for expectant mothers and babies, and who may be called upon to terminate a pregnancy for complications or other reasons.

    Idaho bars abortion at any point in a pregnancy with just two exceptions: when it is necessary to save the life of the mother and in certain cases of rape or incest, though the victim must provide a police report. A temporary order issued by a federal judge also permits abortion in some circumstances when a woman’s health is at risk. Doctors convicted of violating the ban face two to five years in prison.

    Dr. Gustafson, 51, has so far decided to stick it out in Idaho. She has been practicing in the state for 20 years, 17 of them in McCall, a stunning lakeside town of about 3,700 people.

    She sees patients at the Payette Lakes Medical Clinic, a low-slung building that evokes the feeling of a mountain lodge, tucked into a grove of tall spruces and pines. It is affiliated with St. Luke’s Health System, the largest health system in the state.

    On a recent morning, she was awakened at 5 a.m. by a call from a hospital nurse. A pregnant woman, two months shy of her due date, had a ruptured membrane. In common parlance, the patient’s water had broken, putting the mother and baby at risk for preterm delivery and other complications.


    Dr. Gustafson threw on her light blue scrubs and her pink Crocs and rushed to the hospital to arrange for a helicopter to take the woman to Boise. She called the maternal-fetal specialty practice at St. Luke’s Boise Medical Center, the group she has worked with for years. She did not know the doctor who was to receive the patient. He had been in Idaho for only one week.


    “Welcome to Idaho,” she told him.

    In rural states, strong medical networks are critical to patients’ well-being. Doctors are not interchangeable widgets; they build up experience and a comfort level in working with one another and within their health care systems. Ordinarily, Dr. Gustafson might have found herself talking to Dr. Kylie Cooper or Dr. Lauren Miller on that day.

    But Dr. Cooper left St. Luke’s in April for Minnesota. After “many agonizing months of discussion,” she said, she concluded that “the risk was too big for me and my family.”

    Dr. Miller, who had founded the Idaho Coalition for Safe Reproductive Health Care, an advocacy group, moved to Colorado. It is one thing to pay for medical malpractice insurance, she said, but quite another to worry about criminal prosecution.

    “I was always one of those people who had been super calm in emergencies,” Dr. Miller said. “But I was finding that I felt very anxious being on the labor unit, just not knowing if somebody else was going to second-guess my decision. That’s not how you want to go to work every day.”


    The vacancies have been tough to fill. Dr. James Souza, the chief physician executive for St. Luke’s Health System, said the state’s laws had “had a profound chilling effect on recruitment and retention.” He is relying in part on temporary, roving doctors known as locums — short for the Latin phrase locum tenens, which means to stand in place of.

    He likens labor and delivery care to a pyramid, supported by nurses, midwives and doctors, with maternal-fetal specialists at its apex. He worries the system will collapse.

    “The loss of the top of a clinical pyramid means the pyramid falls apart,” Dr. Souza said.

    Some smaller hospitals in Idaho have been unable to withstand the strain. Two closed their labor and delivery units this year; one of them, Bonner General Health, a 25-bed hospital in Sandpoint, in northern Idaho, cited the state’s “legal and political climate” and the departure of “highly respected, talented physicians” as factors that contributed to its decision.

    Other states are also seeing obstetricians leave. In Oklahoma, where more than half of the state’s counties are considered maternity care deserts, three-quarters of obstetrician-gynecologists who responded to a recent survey said they were either planning to leave, considering leaving or would leave if they could, said Dr. Angela Hawkins, the chair of the Oklahoma section of the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.


    The previous chair, Dr. Kate Arnold, and her wife, also an obstetrician, moved to Washington, D.C., after the Supreme Court overturned Roe in Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization. “Before the change in political climate, we had no plans on leaving,” Dr. Arnold said.

    In Tennessee, where one-third of counties are considered maternity care deserts, Dr. Leilah Zahedi-Spung, a maternal-fetal specialist, decided to move to Colorado not long after the Dobbs ruling. She grew up in the South and felt guilty about leaving, she said.

    Tennessee’s abortion ban, which was softened slightly this year, initially required an “affirmative defense,” meaning that doctors faced the burden of proving that an abortion they had performed was medically necessary — akin to the way a defendant in a homicide case might have to prove he or she acted in self-defense. Dr. Zahedi-Spung felt as if she had “quite the target on my back,” she said — so much so that she hired her own criminal defense lawyer.

    “The majority of patients who came to me had highly wanted, highly desired pregnancies,” she said. “They had names, they had baby showers, they had nurseries. And I told them something awful about their pregnancy that made sure they were never going to take home that child — or that they would be sacrificing their lives to do that. I sent everybody out of state. I was unwilling to put myself at risk.”

    Perhaps nowhere has the departure of obstetricians been as pronounced as in Idaho, where Dr. Gustafson has been helping to lead an organized — but only minimally successful — effort to change the state’s abortion laws, which have convinced her that state legislators do not care what doctors think. “Many of us feel like our opinion is being discounted,” she said.

    Dr. Gustafson worked one day a month at a Planned Parenthood clinic in a Boise suburb until Idaho imposed its near-total abortion ban; she now has a similar arrangement with Planned Parenthood in Oregon, where some Idahoans travel for abortion care. She has been a plaintiff in several lawsuits challenging Idaho’s abortion policies. Earlier this year, she spoke at an abortion rights rally in front of the State Capitol.

    In interviews, two Republican state lawmakers — Representatives Megan Blanksma, the House majority leader, and John Vander Woude, the chair of the House Health and Welfare Committee — said they were trying to address doctors’ concerns. Mr. Vander Woude acknowledged that Idaho’s trigger law, written before Roe fell, had affected everyday medical practice in a way that lawmakers had not anticipated.

    “We never looked that close, and what exactly that bill said and how it was written and language that was in it,” he said. “We did that thinking Roe v. Wade was never going to get overturned. And then when it got overturned, we said, ‘OK, now we have to take a really close look at the definitions.’”

    Mr. Vander Woude also dismissed doctors’ fears that they would be prosecuted, and he expressed doubt that obstetricians were really leaving the state. “I don’t see any doctor ever getting prosecuted,” he said, adding, “Show me the doctors that have left.”

    But lawmakers refused to extend the tenure of the state’s Maternal Mortality Review Committee, an expert panel on which Dr. Gustafson served that investigated pregnancy-related deaths. The Idaho Freedom Foundation, a conservative group, testified against it and later called it an “unnecessary waste of tax dollars” — even though the annual cost, about $15,000, was picked up by the federal government.

    That was a bridge too far for Dr. Amelia Huntsberger, the Idaho obstetrician who helped lead a push to create the panel in 2019. She recently moved to Oregon. “Idaho calls itself a quote ‘pro-life state,’ but the Idaho Legislature doesn’t care about the death of moms,” she said.

    Most significantly, the Legislature rejected a top priority of Dr. Gustafson and others in her field: amending state law so that doctors would be able to perform abortions when the health — not just the life — of the mother is at risk. It was almost too much for Dr. Gustafson. She loves living in Idaho, she said. But when asked if she had thought about leaving, her answer was quick: “Every day.”
     
  6. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    116,760
    Likes Received:
    114,817
    Trophy Points:
    115
  7. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    116,760
    Likes Received:
    114,817
    Trophy Points:
    115
  8. crandc

    crandc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    18,387
    Likes Received:
    23,672
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Arizona speaker of the House in 1864 who pushed through abortion ban was a child molester.

    After his first wife died he married a 15 year old girl. After her death a 13 year old. After she died he left the state and married a 14 year old girl he had impregnated.

    Meanwhile in this century Republicans are trying to pretend this wasn't what they really wanted. A bill was proposed by a Republican to overturn the 1864 law. Republicans, who currently hold small majorities in both legislative houses voted to go into recess instead. Women shouted "shame" but when it comes to controlling women they have no shame.
     
  9. crandc

    crandc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    18,387
    Likes Received:
    23,672
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Also the 12 year old Mexican girl he abducted and raped.
     
  10. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    116,760
    Likes Received:
    114,817
    Trophy Points:
    115
    House bill criminalizing common STIs, could turn thousands of Oklahomans into felons

    If signed into law, House Bill 3098 would criminalize the intentional or reckless spread of STIs.

    Violators could face between 2 to 5 years in prison.

    However reckless is not defined in the bill, which experts in the field say leaves an open door to potential unnecessary lawsuits and prosecutions.

    https://ktul.com/news/local/house-b...3098-state-department-of-health-hpv-infection

     
  11. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    116,760
    Likes Received:
    114,817
    Trophy Points:
    115
  12. crandc

    crandc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    18,387
    Likes Received:
    23,672
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Associated Press reports on what happens to pregnant women turned away from emergency rooms because hospitals are afraid to treat them in states that ban healthcare for women.

    One woman miscarried in hospital restroom. Another, turned away, was being driven to next nearest hospital 45 minutes away when she gave birth in the car. The baby died. Another woman whose water broke at 17 weeks, well before viability, was sent home to miscarry.

    Federal law requires emergency rooms to at least stabilize any patient. Department of Health and Human Services made it clear that includes pregnancy emergencies but states mandate jail time for any termination.

    The Extreme Court is about to hear a challenge to the federal requirement for emergency care brought by Idaho, which bans all abortion. They do not want hospitals to treat hemorrhaging women. Because they are so pro life.
     
    SlyPokerDog likes this.
  13. crandc

    crandc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    18,387
    Likes Received:
    23,672
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Free state of Florida now outlaws all abortion.

    Arizona legislature voted to repeal 1864 abortion ban but reversal does not go into effect until 90 days ago legislative session ends in June.

    Trump talked about how delighted everyone is with overturning Roe.
     
    SlyPokerDog likes this.
  14. crandc

    crandc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    18,387
    Likes Received:
    23,672
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A Texas woman wanted an abortion, which is illegal in Texas. She had means so she went to Colorado where women have rights.

    Her former partner hired the lawyer who wrote Texas' bounty hunter anti abortion law and filed wrongful death suit. Her lawyer is hoping the courts will rule it a crime for a woman to leave states for abortion. Meanwhile he is trying to depose her, which would require her to list everyone who helped her in any way. Which would subject them to huge civil fines under the bounty hunter law.
     
    SlyPokerDog likes this.
  15. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    116,760
    Likes Received:
    114,817
    Trophy Points:
    115
  16. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    116,760
    Likes Received:
    114,817
    Trophy Points:
    115
     
  17. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    116,760
    Likes Received:
    114,817
    Trophy Points:
    115
    Registering guns... bad.

    Registering pregnant women... good.
     
    Phatguysrule likes this.
  18. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2008
    Messages:
    13,763
    Likes Received:
    11,656
    Trophy Points:
    113
    First thing that crossed my mind. These people are absolute clowns. In a horrifying way.
     
    SlyPokerDog likes this.
  19. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    116,760
    Likes Received:
    114,817
    Trophy Points:
    115
    Tennessee woman denied abortion after fetus’ ‘brain not attached’ slams state’s ban

    A Tennessee woman who was denied an abortion despite a fatal abnormality says the state’s anti-abortion laws resulted in her losing an ovary, a fallopian tube and her hopes for a large family.

    “The state of Tennessee took my fertility from me,” Breanna Cecil, 34, told The Independent. She added that state lawmakers “took away my opportunity to have a family like my own biological family because of these horrible laws that they put in place.”

    The mother-of-one said she has not felt the same since her doctor told her in January 2023 that her fetus was diagnosed with acrania, a fatal condition where the fetus has no skull bones.

    Then, 12 weeks pregnant, Ms Cecil was getting her first ultrasound. She attended the appointment alone, so when the doctor told her the fetus was not viable outside the womb, she was left with only asking the doctor what she should do.

    However, she was left with few options. The state’s near-total abortion ban prevents anyone from getting an abortion if there is still a heartbeat - which her fetus still had.

    The law makes no exceptions for fatal conditions and also criminalizes physicians who perform the procedure outside of the allowed exceptions.

    Ms Cecil recalled the doctor not knowing how to respond to her question about her options.

    “That’s something that no one should ever hear,” she noted.

    The doctor set her up with a specialist, where another ultrasound was conducted. That scan was more difficult, she says, because she could see the severity of the fetus’ condition. “I could see the brain not attached,” Ms Cecil said.

    The only advice doctors could give offer was that if she had her second child it would “most likely die inside of me before 20 weeks” and she would be forced to deliver a stillborn.

    The news was crushing as Ms Cecil said her pregnancy was starting to show. Not only could she not “mentally handle” the well-intentioned questions about the baby’s due date and sex, she said she could not be a “good mom to [her] little boy” if she was forced to go through with her pregnancy, and deliver the stillborn.

    She decided to get an abortion.

    After “sobbing to receptionists” at roughly 20 clinics and hospitals in a desperate attempt to get an appointment, she finally had success. A hospital in Chicago had an opening. On 3 February, doctors performed a dilation and curettage procedure.

    Just six days after returning to Tennessee, thinking the worst was behind her, Ms Cecil started experiencing a fever and back pain. Her doctor gave her antibiotics, but something still wasn’t right.

    She went for another ultrasound and the physician found retained tissue leftover from the fetus, which can have serious consequences. Doctors performed another procedure on Ms Cecil hoping it would be the end.

    Her fever persisted and two days later, she returned to the hospital, where doctors discovered she had a nine-centimeter-sized abscess in her abdomen that encompassed some of her reproductive organs.

    Doctors had to perform emergency surgery on her, and removed her right ovary and fallopian tube.

    Ms Cecil returned home after a grueling 10 days in the hospital.

    Ms Cecil and her husband had spent nearly a year trying to conceive that pregnancy. “Fertility and infertility is really hard to go through in itself,” she said, noting the couple thought they’d finally gotten through the difficult stage.

    So when news of the fetus’ condition hit, she blamed herself and asked the nurses: “Did I do something wrong?”

    Since her third procedure, she and her husband have not been able to become pregnant. Ms Cecil doesn’t think it’s a coincidence and wonders if not for Tennessee law, would she still have her fertility?

    “Right now I feel like they took that away from me,” the 34-year-old said of state lawmakers.

    Ms Cecil said she wanted to make clear to legislators that “abortion is not black and white,” explaining that every situation is different.

    Like Texas woman Kate Cox, who was also denied the procedure in her home state, Ms Cecil wants a large family; neither woman falls within the stereotype that many on the right are portraying as abortion candidates.

    The young mother added pregnant people who need an abortion shouldn’t feel like they need to beg for permission from lawmakers who do not have medical backgrounds.

    Often, women in these situation are “deciding if we want our child to suffer” after being born or are “waiting until they die inside of us,” Ms Cecil said.

    She added she still doesn’t feel normal more than a year after the pregnancy. Physically, she has a scar that stretches from her belly button down to her pelvic bone that has caused her fat to become displaced. Emotionally, she said, “I think about that baby all the time.”

    While she and her husband have been trying for another baby, she often breaks down and thinks, “I just want that baby. Why didn’t that work out?”

    Ms Cecil contemplated joining a group of women, represented by the Center for Reproductive Rights, who were denied abortions and are now fighting the state’s prohibition, asking for “clarity” on the ban’s medical exceptions.

    The state of Tennessee took my fertility from me

    Breanna Cecil

    She decided not to become a plaintiff in the case because she feared others’ opinions of her decisions.

    On 4 April, a three-judge panel listened to arguments from lawyers from the center and the state about a temporary block of the abortion ban. The center’s attorneys mentioned a series of heartbreaking stories from the plaintiff — as well as a woman whose baby was diagnosed with acrania.

    They were referring to Ms Cecil.

    The three-judge panel has yet to rule on the temporary injunction in a state that is one of 14 across the nation that made abortion illegal since the end of Roe v Wade in June 2022.

    After hearing the oral arguments, Ms Cecil now wants to join the case. “If someone doesn’t ever want to hire me again because of what happened to me, I just don’t care. I’m not gonna let that bother me anymore,” she said.

    She’s lived in Tennessee since she was seven years old, and while she has been tempted to leave, she refuses to let the anti-abortion crowd force her from her home.

    “I can’t back down and let them win this battle,” Ms Cecil said.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...see-denied-abortion-ban-lawsuit-b2529144.html
     
  20. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2008
    Messages:
    13,763
    Likes Received:
    11,656
    Trophy Points:
    113

Share This Page