All In For Ben Simmons

Well they will tank and you will be happy. Keep losing bro. Eventually every team will win a playoff game or two.

 

Hyperbole much? Good grief, please tell me if you've ever even heard of one of these guys.... Clifton McNeely, Andy Tonkovich, Howie Shannon, Charlie Share, Gene Melchiorre, Mark Workman, Ray Felix, Frank Selvy, Dick Ricketts, Sihugo Green. Those are the first ten #1's & though I'm closing in on 60 and have been a lifelong Bball junkie, none rang a bell.

I have been around long enough to absolutely know that I can list more then ten #1's who's careers were definitely worse then Ayton's already pretty solid run. LaRue Martin ring a bell? Kent Benson, Joe Barely Cares, Pervis Ellison, Michael Olowokandi, Kwame Brown, Andrea Bargnani, Greg Oden, Anthony Bennet & Markelle Fultz... please try arguing any of those guys. I could add another slew of guys who could be argued to have had a lesser run including Ben Simmons. In particular Kenyon Martin is one of my least favorite guys ever to play in the league and I used to love watching Rasheed punk his overblown ego.

Not every draft is loaded with talent, we all know this. This past draft was one that universally was seen as lacking. This next draft is thought to be loaded with talents. If Risacher was in the 2025 class, he might not go in the top 10

STOMP

 

I sincerely hope so. It would be a huge missed opportunity to do anything else.

 

I stopped at the last 25 years but sure I agree there are many more and some are much worse. I also left off players who's career was ended by injury.

 

Losers lose. At some point these players and the coach will either try to win or they will leave and the team continues to lose.

 

Once again, I've never advocated for the players or coaches to try to lose. They should absolutely be playing to win.

But young teams lose. It takes vets to win. Even mediocre vets will help you win against bad teams.

 

Once again "Tanking" is losing ON PURPOSE! Losers lose. Be a loser and you will continue to lose. Players who win don't like to lose. Be a loser and you will lose your players.

 

I've not advocated for that. I've advocated for moving off of our middle aged players who don't have all star or all NBA potential.

I've specifically said that if the young guys are too good to lose that is a good problem to have.

This is one reason I keep having to restate my position. You guys keep arguing against things I've already said that I am not advocating for.

And over the timeline we're talking about, if you do a good job the players will not be free agents when you're losing. You'll be one of the best young teams in the NBA.

 

Why some cant accept that some others would prefer to be a playoff team with a small small small chance of winning it all instead of being a lottery team with a small chance of winning it all…is mind boggling.
Different people, different preferences. Neither is right or wrong.

Just accept it and move on….

 

There are plenty of examples of teams that continually lost turning their franchise around once they acquired better players with the Warriors being the most extreme recent example. Pretty sure they had the longest playoff draught in US pro sports prior to going on their championship run.

The front office should never ever tell the players not to try to win as they are motivated by the importance of their individual careers... I don't think anyone is advocating that. But the front office can sit and trade out it's vets that give the team it's legit chance to win without losing it's players. It's pro sports and guys get it. Generally guys in pro sports want to A) make their money & B) win once making money is assured. I'm pretty positive the franchise will start the season with stated intentions to compete for a playoff spot and will shift to plan tank if they struggle as expected.

STOMP

 

You are correct neither is right nor wrong. And yes we should accept those with different opinions and move on. And by moving on I mean stop whining about it in almost every thread. It is like the fan in the bar yelling the same thing over and over at the TV set......they can't hear you. There is no reason to repeat it. We all know both sides of the argument, there is nothing more that can be said that we have not already heard. I am not saying never discuss it, just dial it back.

 

There is strategy in sports. Certain strategy gives you better odds of success.

This forum is a place to engage in discussion regarding such strategy.

If you don't like the conversation there is nothing to stop you from just accepting it and moving on.

 

I think we have different definition of conversation then.
I see what you are doing as not conversing but beating a dead horse trying to get everyone to fall in line with your thinking. Most people see it this way at this point.
Self awareness is a great tool!

 

Most of the posts are me explaining how people are misapplying points to my position that I have never advocated for or have actually argued against.

They are doing this because the points that I and others have made can't be disputed. Because they are based on facts and probabilities rather than feelings and emotion.

A great example of this can be seen in the movie moneyball. When Billy Bean is explaining to his scouts why doing what seems counterintuitive and less exciting actually leads to more wins given their specific situation.

Yes, you can be illogical and choose to stay mediocre (as Portland has done historically). You can even point out anecdotal evidence to support this choice. That's not wrong. But at least admit that's what you're doing.

Or you can pay attention to historical data and acknowledge the probabilities and follow the path that most likely leads to greater talent on the team, and thereby greater chances for success in the not too distant future, but most importantly for the next decade plus.

 

I think this sums up the issue perfectly.

 

Yes, it's crazy that somebody would argue that point. The data is quite clear.

It's okay if you don't like the direction the data suggests taking, it'll cost the team a lot of money. It'll mean lower attendance. We won't have a chance at making the playoffs for a few years. But pretending the data doesn't exist or isn't clear is just silly. The data includes guys like Ben Simmons. It includes Greg Oden.

 

Probably better than Minny.
They did get Edwards out of it after a bunch of years trying.

 

Cleveland has had a few number one picks and got LeBron.
Maybe the Blazers can get the player that brings the chip? We all know it can happen.