Politics Ukraine / Russia

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by Hoopguru, Jan 20, 2022.

  1. Everything Beagle

    Everything Beagle Well-Known Member

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    Putin refusing the offer would be a strong indicator that Trump plans to fight for Russia instead of merely rescinding support for Ukraine. These are cruel times. Stay safe.
     
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  2. crandc

    crandc Well-Known Member

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    Someone breaks into your home. You fight like hell but you are outnumbered and they are hurting your children and trashing your house. So finally you say OK take the TV and stereo and leave. That doesn't mean they have a right to your TV and stereo. Just best you can do in the situation and you are within your rights to do it.
    What is unforgivable is some rich outsider telling the thieves to go steal your TV and stereo and praising them for doing so. Like Gabbard. Like Trump.
     
  3. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Wait, you are saying that it's some sort of a conspiracy theory that Tulsi is a Russian agent?

    Then why don't you believe it?

    barfo
     
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  4. BigGameDamian

    BigGameDamian Well-Known Member

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  5. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    It's crazy how Russia has been able to invade Ukraine and other countries over the years. I sported Obama but he pissed me off by not doing much about Russia taking Crimea.
     
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  6. beast blazer

    beast blazer Well-Known Member

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    It's not a "claim" it's a fact. Even missiles that can be shot down, can't be stopped if a bunch are shot at once.

    The Russians have nuclear surrounding the United States that could pop up and wipe us out at any time. They would of course be wiped out as well. It's mutually assured destruction.
     
  7. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    Bingo. And that's why nobody is going to use nukes unless there is a verifiable eminent threat to the existence of their country.

    Nobody wants to end the existence of Russia. Or China. Neither Russia or China believes that anybody who has any means wants to erase them from the map.
     
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  8. beast blazer

    beast blazer Well-Known Member

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    There have already been multiple cases where both the US and Russia had their finger on the button but pulled off at the last minute. And being in such a heighted state of tension amplifies that threat. There's also the threat of a country using a limited strike which escalates.

    We know humans can get to the state where they are ready to "go down fighting" to blow themselves up to take out an enemy, or to refuse defeat. If a person is willing to do that, they'd be willing to press the red button.
     
  9. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    Being willing to blow themselves up is not the same as being willing to blow up their families. And every person they have ever known and loved.
     
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  10. beast blazer

    beast blazer Well-Known Member

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    It's already nearly happened more than once. You, and many others, are simply not grasping the threat. It's probably a defense mechanism, since the idea is so bad, but we also have to face reality.

    The Russians have been issuing warning after warning, and the missile they launched against Ukraine was another warning. It's a grave mistake to interpret their restraint as confirmation that they'll always do nothing but bluff.
     
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  11. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. They (Putin) wouldn't act the way that they do unless they were too selfish to want themselves and their families to be killed.

    Nobody is threatening to kill Putin's family. Even if we went after Putin himself with assassins he would still not have a compelling reason to initiate nuclear winter.

    What you are suggesting is simply not logical.
     
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  12. beast blazer

    beast blazer Well-Known Member

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    Escalating the war with Russia isn't logical. The missile they launched against Ukraine was meant to demonstrate that our missile defenses can't stop their missiles, and that they are willing to use them. It was like nicking someone's cheek with your dagger to demonstrate that you could have cut their throat, and to stop.
     
  13. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    As if Europe couldn't do the same to Russia...
     
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  14. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    Uh oh. I guess we'd better give North Korea everything they could ever want...

     
  15. Everything Beagle

    Everything Beagle Well-Known Member

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    Again?!
     
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  16. beast blazer

    beast blazer Well-Known Member

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    I don't think they'd have the balls to do so if big brother US wasn't behind their back. They've been lax on defense spending because they know we'll protect them.
     
  17. UKRAINEFAN

    UKRAINEFAN Well-Known Member

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    In this interview with Sky News, Zelenskii seems to be saying that if Ukraine could be given immediate NATO membership that they would be OK with the russian occupation of Ukrainian territory (that they already hold) until they could get it back diplomatically. Seems as if russia would have to give up some of that territory to get Kursk back though. This seems to be quite a concession since we know that russia doesn't actually have any belief that NATO threatens them, so they really give up nothing. For Ukraine's leaders, human life matters, which makes a successful negotiation difficult with a country that does not value human life. I would hope that the world would keep the sanctions on russia and also give to Ukraine at least some of the russian confiscated assets to help them rebuild the cities that russia has destroyed. As Zelenksyii says though, no one has made this offer to Ukraine.
    https://news.sky.com/story/zelensky...aSL2HUeuIrAKeUwNiQ_aem_vi58YDU7MlSCDZTogamMog
     
  18. UKRAINEFAN

    UKRAINEFAN Well-Known Member

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    I think russia has to seriously consider any deal though. They have had very high casualties (KIA and WIA) over the last couple months and yesterday had their highest daily total of the war , over 2000. Sanctions are finally starting to bite, ruble crashing again, many bankruptcies, no end to inflation in sight. They had to pull so many troops out of Syria that Assad's forces are being driven back by the rebels, who seem poised to take Aleppo. Ukraine going into full production of their own long range missiles and drone/missiles.
     
  19. UKRAINEFAN

    UKRAINEFAN Well-Known Member

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    Is russia completely paranoid, or is continued war the only way tsar Putin can stay in power? Here is their response to Zelenskyii:
    "Russian Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) said Russia will refuse any ceasefire because the West wants to temporarily freeze the war in Ukraine in order to restore the Ukrainian Armed Forces' combat capability by sending 100,000 NATO soldiers to Ukraine as 'peacekeepers.'"
    This is OK with me. I am hoping they will refuse Trump's peace plan and then he will go Rambo on them.
    https://igorsushko.substack.com/p/russia-finds-itself-in-a-gordian
     
  20. Dozer

    Dozer Active Member

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    Hi, i have been reading up and i have to ask, what war is logical? When is war logical? I do not consider self defense war. Offensive aggression is war. When is war logical?

    My point being, leaders who aggressively seek out war are typically not logical and will not follow the sound thinking most may have. To me, it is illogical to dismiss tragic actions from leaders, due to the act of aggression being illogical.
    I would expect the unexpected from leaders who push for war.
     
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