Politics Ukraine / Russia

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I predict Trump will give Puerto Rico to Russia.

Putin Rico!
 
Wow, these are the only lefties who are actually talking sensibly about this escalatory move (only other exception is Noam Chomsky) Kudos to The Young Turks for being about to logically assess the situation rather than defaulting to the moronic tribal position.
 
crandc said:
Tulsi Gabbared, echoing Putin, declared Russia is protecting themselves.
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Tulsi is a Russian agent. As to why the military has allowed her to serve as a leutinent colonel for the past 26 years (and she's still active), while being a Russian agent is a bit odd.
 
Dennis was my favorite candidate, back when I voted for Democrats.
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It seems as if Zelensky is preparing us for the loss of Crimea. Sounds as if he is aiming to return Ukraine to the pre-2022 borders. Big disappointment for me, but I wouldn't want any more Ukrainians to die for my own selfish interests. I think I have to accept that I will probably not be able to return to beloved Crimea in my lifetime. This is a sad day. Makes me angry that West didn't give massive military aid to Ukraine in 2022 and early 2023 before russia built their strong defensive lines and rebuilt their army. Ukraine could have won this war and knocked russia out of Crimea.
@UkrReview
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"We cannot spend tens of thousands of our people dying for the sake of Crimea being returned. We understand that Crimea can be returned diplomatically," — Zelensky
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"We do not yet have enough strength to reach the borders of 1991 with weapons in hand," he added.
Gc2HzrRXsAEJwMD
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
It seems as if Zelensky is preparing us for the loss of Crimea. Sounds as if he is aiming to return Ukraine to the pre-2022 borders. Big disappointment for me, but I wouldn't want any more Ukrainians to die for my own selfish interests. I think I have to accept that I will probably not be able to return to beloved Crimea in my lifetime. This is a sad day. Makes me angry that West didn't give massive military aid to Ukraine in 2022 and early 2023 before russia built their strong defensive lines and rebuilt their army. Ukraine could have won this war and knocked russia out of Crimea.
@UkrReview
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"We cannot spend tens of thousands of our people dying for the sake of Crimea being returned. We understand that Crimea can be returned diplomatically," — Zelensky
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"We do not yet have enough strength to reach the borders of 1991 with weapons in hand," he added.
Gc2HzrRXsAEJwMD
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Thinking about it, this doesn't seem like a good negotiating tactic, giving up something in advance.. I am going to feel foolish is this turns out to be fake, but I would be happy.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Thinking about it, this doesn't seem like a good negotiating tactic, giving up something in advance.. I am going to feel foolish is this turns out to be fake, but I would be happy.
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Well, it's not fake, Was from an interview with a Fox News reporter. I have now seen the interview. However Putin might reject the deal since he is so greedy and since he doesn't value human life at all, except his own.. And then the war would continue. Ukrainians used UK Storm shadow missiles today for the first time into russian territory, Also their own missiles are going into mass production.
 
Putin refusing the offer would be a strong indicator that Trump plans to fight for Russia instead of merely rescinding support for Ukraine. These are cruel times. Stay safe.
 
Someone breaks into your home. You fight like hell but you are outnumbered and they are hurting your children and trashing your house. So finally you say OK take the TV and stereo and leave. That doesn't mean they have a right to your TV and stereo. Just best you can do in the situation and you are within your rights to do it.
What is unforgivable is some rich outsider telling the thieves to go steal your TV and stereo and praising them for doing so. Like Gabbard. Like Trump.
 
beast blazer said:
Tulsi is a Russian agent. As to why the military has allowed her to serve as a leutinent colonel for the past 26 years (and she's still active), while being a Russian agent is a bit odd.
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Wait, you are saying that it's some sort of a conspiracy theory that Tulsi is a Russian agent?

Then why don't you believe it?

barfo
 
It's crazy how Russia has been able to invade Ukraine and other countries over the years. I sported Obama but he pissed me off by not doing much about Russia taking Crimea.
 
BigGameDamian said:
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It's not a "claim" it's a fact. Even missiles that can be shot down, can't be stopped if a bunch are shot at once.

The Russians have nuclear surrounding the United States that could pop up and wipe us out at any time. They would of course be wiped out as well. It's mutually assured destruction.
 
beast blazer said:
They would of course be wiped out as well. It's mutually assured destruction.
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Bingo. And that's why nobody is going to use nukes unless there is a verifiable eminent threat to the existence of their country.

Nobody wants to end the existence of Russia. Or China. Neither Russia or China believes that anybody who has any means wants to erase them from the map.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Bingo. And that's why nobody is going to use nukes unless there is a verifiable eminent threat to the existence of their country.

Nobody wants to end the existence of Russia. Or China. Neither Russia or China believes that anybody who has any means wants to erase them from the map.
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There have already been multiple cases where both the US and Russia had their finger on the button but pulled off at the last minute. And being in such a heighted state of tension amplifies that threat. There's also the threat of a country using a limited strike which escalates.

We know humans can get to the state where they are ready to "go down fighting" to blow themselves up to take out an enemy, or to refuse defeat. If a person is willing to do that, they'd be willing to press the red button.
 
beast blazer said:
There have already been multiple cases where both the US and Russia had their finger on the button but pulled off at the last minute. And being in such a heighted state of tension amplifies that threat. There's also the threat of a country using a limited strike which escalates.

We know humans can get to the state where they are ready to "go down fighting" to blow themselves up to take out an enemy, or to refuse defeat. If a person is willing to do that, they'd be willing to press the red button.
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Being willing to blow themselves up is not the same as being willing to blow up their families. And every person they have ever known and loved.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Being willing to blow themselves up is not the same as being willing to blow up their families. And every person they have ever known and loved.
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It's already nearly happened more than once. You, and many others, are simply not grasping the threat. It's probably a defense mechanism, since the idea is so bad, but we also have to face reality.

The Russians have been issuing warning after warning, and the missile they launched against Ukraine was another warning. It's a grave mistake to interpret their restraint as confirmation that they'll always do nothing but bluff.
 
beast blazer said:
It's already nearly happened more than once. You, and many others, are simply not grasping the threat. It's probably a defense mechanism, since the idea is so bad, but we also have to face reality.

The Russians have been issuing warning after warning, and the missile they launched against Ukraine was another warning. It's a grave mistake to interpret their restraint as confirmation that they'll always do nothing but bluff.
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I disagree. They (Putin) wouldn't act the way that they do unless they were too selfish to want themselves and their families to be killed.

Nobody is threatening to kill Putin's family. Even if we went after Putin himself with assassins he would still not have a compelling reason to initiate nuclear winter.

What you are suggesting is simply not logical.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I disagree. They (Putin) wouldn't act the way that they do unless they were too selfish to want themselves and their families to be killed.

Nobody is threatening to kill Putin's family. Even if we went after Putin himself with assassins he would still not have a compelling reason to initiate nuclear winter.

What you are suggesting is simply not logical.
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Escalating the war with Russia isn't logical. The missile they launched against Ukraine was meant to demonstrate that our missile defenses can't stop their missiles, and that they are willing to use them. It was like nicking someone's cheek with your dagger to demonstrate that you could have cut their throat, and to stop.
 
beast blazer said:
Escalating the war with Russia isn't logical. The missile they launched against Ukraine was meant to demonstrate that our missile defenses can't stop their missiles, and that they are willing to use them. It was like nicking someone's cheek with your dagger to demonstrate that you could have cut their throat, and to stop.
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As if Europe couldn't do the same to Russia...
 
beast blazer said:
Escalating the war with Russia isn't logical. The missile they launched against Ukraine was meant to demonstrate that our missile defenses can't stop their missiles, and that they are willing to use them. It was like nicking someone's cheek with your dagger to demonstrate that you could have cut their throat, and to stop.
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Uh oh. I guess we'd better give North Korea everything they could ever want...

 
In this interview with Sky News, Zelenskii seems to be saying that if Ukraine could be given immediate NATO membership that they would be OK with the russian occupation of Ukrainian territory (that they already hold) until they could get it back diplomatically. Seems as if russia would have to give up some of that territory to get Kursk back though. This seems to be quite a concession since we know that russia doesn't actually have any belief that NATO threatens them, so they really give up nothing. For Ukraine's leaders, human life matters, which makes a successful negotiation difficult with a country that does not value human life. I would hope that the world would keep the sanctions on russia and also give to Ukraine at least some of the russian confiscated assets to help them rebuild the cities that russia has destroyed. As Zelenksyii says though, no one has made this offer to Ukraine.
https://news.sky.com/story/zelensky...aSL2HUeuIrAKeUwNiQ_aem_vi58YDU7MlSCDZTogamMog
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
In this interview with Sky News, Zelenskii seems to be saying that if Ukraine could be given immediate NATO membership that they would be OK with the russian occupation of Ukrainian territory (that they already hold) until they could get it back diplomatically. Seems as if russia would have to give up some of that territory to get Kursk back though. This seems to be quite a concession since we know that russia doesn't actually have any belief that NATO threatens them, so they really give up nothing. For Ukraine's leaders, human life matters, which makes a successful negotiation difficult with a country that does not value human life. I would hope that the world would keep the sanctions on russia and also give to Ukraine at least some of the russian confiscated assets to help them rebuild the cities that russia has destroyed. As Zelenksyii says though, no one has made this offer to Ukraine.
https://news.sky.com/story/zelensky...aSL2HUeuIrAKeUwNiQ_aem_vi58YDU7MlSCDZTogamMog
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I think russia has to seriously consider any deal though. They have had very high casualties (KIA and WIA) over the last couple months and yesterday had their highest daily total of the war , over 2000. Sanctions are finally starting to bite, ruble crashing again, many bankruptcies, no end to inflation in sight. They had to pull so many troops out of Syria that Assad's forces are being driven back by the rebels, who seem poised to take Aleppo. Ukraine going into full production of their own long range missiles and drone/missiles.
 
Is russia completely paranoid, or is continued war the only way tsar Putin can stay in power? Here is their response to Zelenskyii:
"Russian Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) said Russia will refuse any ceasefire because the West wants to temporarily freeze the war in Ukraine in order to restore the Ukrainian Armed Forces' combat capability by sending 100,000 NATO soldiers to Ukraine as 'peacekeepers.'"
This is OK with me. I am hoping they will refuse Trump's peace plan and then he will go Rambo on them.
https://igorsushko.substack.com/p/russia-finds-itself-in-a-gordian
 
Phatguysrule said:
I disagree. They (Putin) wouldn't act the way that they do unless they were too selfish to want themselves and their families to be killed.

Nobody is threatening to kill Putin's family. Even if we went after Putin himself with assassins he would still not have a compelling reason to initiate nuclear winter.

What you are suggesting is simply not logical.
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beast blazer said:
Escalating the war with Russia isn't logical. The missile they launched against Ukraine was meant to demonstrate that our missile defenses can't stop their missiles, and that they are willing to use them. It was like nicking someone's cheek with your dagger to demonstrate that you could have cut their throat, and to stop.
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Hi, i have been reading up and i have to ask, what war is logical? When is war logical? I do not consider self defense war. Offensive aggression is war. When is war logical?

My point being, leaders who aggressively seek out war are typically not logical and will not follow the sound thinking most may have. To me, it is illogical to dismiss tragic actions from leaders, due to the act of aggression being illogical.
I would expect the unexpected from leaders who push for war.
 
Dozer said:
Hi, i have been reading up and i have to ask, what war is logical? When is war logical? I do not consider self defense war. Offensive aggression is war. When is war logical?

My point being, leaders who aggressively seek out war are typically not logical and will not follow the sound thinking most may have. To me, it is illogical to dismiss tragic actions from leaders, due to the act of aggression being illogical.
I would expect the unexpected from leaders who push for war.
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War is logical when you need to extract value from another country. And if you need to keep your population thinned out because you can no longer support them. If you can just go take what you want it's logical to go take it.

That's where Russia is. They don't have enough youth among their population. They don't have enough skilled trades people. They don't have enough scientists.

They believe that they need to control the land that Ukraine exists upon in order to have enough buffer to defend their home land. Russia has always believed that. They also believe that they need Poland and Romania and several other countries.

They are being logical if you understand what their beliefs are.

None of that makes nuclear winter a viable option. It does make threatening nuclear winter a viable option.

Russia is collapsing. The only way for them to exist moving forward is to take control of as much of the old USSR as they possibly can. The only way for Putin to maintain power is to appear strong.

Everything Putin has been doing is very logical when you consider his goals.
 
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