Just putting it out there, fellas. I'm interested to see the apportioning of credit to Odom, Grant and Butler if the Lakers turn out better than expected...
i expect them to be very good next year...and yes i 'jock' kobe...i want him to come back to the lakers...my friend lives in ocean ridge so i can get in the gates and i was gonna stand there wearing my kobe lakers jersey on his street until he drove by holding up a sign telling him to resign with the lakers but i figured i'd get arrested for stalking or something lol...LA loves kobe...and LA (and myself) will still love kobe if hes a clipper...so either way...hes gonna put himself in a good situation with either team...livingston/cmag/brand/kaman...sasha/caron/odom/grant...both teams have guys that they can build around him with so we'll see how it turns out...but it wasnt a mistake to trade shaq...smartest thing the lakers could have done, should have done it 2 years ago imo...
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">smartest thing the lakers could have done, should have done it 2 years ago imo... </div> That's the dumbest comment I've heard in here. Even Laker Fans will admit that. 2 years ago he just won the city their 3rd straight Championship and his 3rd NBA Finals MVP.(How many does Kobe have?) YOu'll get a reality check on how much an impact the Big Diesel had this season. The most dominant player in the League (I don't care how old he is, nobody still can't guard him. And don't tell me the Pistons "held" him down cause he dominated game 4 when the Lakers had to win. But then KObe's ego got in the way and starting forcing shots in the 2nd half and stopped giving it to Shaq. And don't deny it KObe Fans. You know it's true.) and all you got was Odom, Butler, and Grant. KG, Tim, C-Webb, and Brand are gonna have a killing when Odom 'guards' them.
i truley hope bryant goes to the clippers... it will be a refreshing change... wont it be just a bball fans dream for the long awaited kobe/shaq game.... i'm lookin forward to a la vs. miami game.... kobe should do much better off with the clips.. plus he could turn a team thats been a joke for a while in to a serious playoff contender...i can almost hear it now '' we better prepare for those clippers'' plus if kobe goes hopefully fisher comes to houston ... i hope he does so it really doesnt matter when shaq,kobe,or nebody else go.... with fisher hopefully an addition rockets all the way next year.... tmac draws a double team yao draws a double, kick out to jim or d-fish... howard to pick up grabage
If KObe decides to leave (which I seriously doubt) Laker Fans will be saying, "Who can we get with the #1 pick this year?"
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting crazytown:</div><div class="quote_post">If KObe decides to leave (which I seriously doubt) Laker Fans will be saying, "Who can we get with the #1 pick this year?" </div> What? Listen to you...the Magic fan that is talking sh*t on the Lakers about them getting a #1 pick, yet that's about all the Magic can do anymore. Next year, your Magic will suck just as bad. The reason the Lakers had a bad time without Shaq last year was because there is not a single guy on that team that can play the paint other than Shaq. Put Grant in there, and he probably isn't good...but he can do it better than Medvedenko. The Lakers don't need a scorer...they have that in Kobe. Now that we have Odom and Grant crashing boards, and possibly Dampier (or just Grant) in the paint instead of guys meant to be PFs...then we'll do just fine. I suggest you worry about Orlando...if it wasn't for them being in the East, they would'nt have ever made the playoffs a few years back...and they would never make it there again.
This is not the old Kobe & Shaq no more. Kobe got better but in the meantime Shaq got out of shape, lazy and FAT. The old Kobe & Shaq could carry the team even though they had bad supporting cast. The return Lakers got for Shaq wasnt worth it, and i think they could had gotten a better deal if they didnt rush the trade. I wanted to see Shaq go anyways. Kobe & Shaq maybe the best duo but look at them they barely show any teamwork arguing over leadership of a team, that is not what you do to win a championship. Since now Kobe is the only leader now and it is obvious to most people, Kobe doesn't have to worry about that and just play ball. Based on that trade they have supporting cast that can help Kobe, needless to say the triangle offense wont be running for the Lakers too, since Phil is out. So Payton wont have to struggle anymore, and i can see Payton being an all-star this year, last season it wasn't for Paytons age that he did bad thats what i know. Look at his numbers from 20ppg to 14ppg. It clearly shows its the offense there wont be any significant change of the ppg if he is aging
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Next year, your Magic will suck just as bad.</div> What little credibilty you had you lost with that statement. You don't much about basketball if you the Magic will win only 21 games this season. They are vastly improved from last year and they'll make the playoffs. And don't give me this, "the western conference is better than the east" crap. Your team just got 5-game swept. 1st time in NBA history! That excuse no longer passes. Especially with Shaq there now. Please don't use that excuse until a western team wins back the NBA Championship. The tides are slowly shifting to the East...
i agree the eastern conference has become much stronger the past 2 seasons... but its funny to hear you say that the lakers should have traded oneal 2 seasons ago is the dumbest thing you've ever heard...immediately after the third championship, it was already obvious that the shaq and kobe feud would never end and that it had merely 'ended' on a superficial level...this was also the season in which shaq's ludicrous contract extension demands began to arise and it was obvious that he would try to prove that the lakers couldn't exist without him... once a player has set into that mentality...he becomes a cancer to the team and the organization...it was clear all along that the lakers knew that kobe was the future, not shaq...and if this was the case...they should have made the move immediately to move shaq and start retooling the team around bryant the moment conflict became inevitable...did you see us hoisting championship banners these past 2 seasons? nope...and part of that was because we were still trying to run the offense and the team around O-Neal without the cap space to sign the right free-agents to do such a thing...sure the championship hopes looked pretty good at the start of last season with teh acquisition of payton and malone (largely thanks to shaq...i agree), but even that was a temporary solution and that was the problem...the lakers were always left to try and fill their needs through minimum contracts (see harper, richmond, horace grant, malone, payton etc.) and were never building around the man that will be the franchise player for years to come... If the trial goes well...Kobe should have his game and training regiment return to normal and will be on his way to peaking from a game, maturity, and leadership standpoint by the age of 28-30...this leaves us 3-5 years now to be able to tool the team around him to take advantage of this, had we made the move 2 years ago, we would have had 5-7 years to tool the team around bryant for him to lead the championship quests from the ages of 25-32... with the current CBA in place, the problems that Oneals contract was going to pose on the Lakers long term was obvious (at least to me) 2 years ago...and at that point in time, who knows what kind of talent we would have been able to command in a trade for Oneal...hell we might have been able to get 3 quality starters and a couple of role players to come off the bench if we had moved him 2 years ago although I am definitely not hating on the acquisitions of odom and butler...i think they will turn out to be fine players and they seemingly have accepted their roles to play around Kobe... so before you call it a dumb statement...prove that 1. Oneals contract is not and has not been a hinderance on the progress of the lakers and their ability to make acquisitions in free agency, 2. that the lakers were wrong in choosing to build their future around kobe, 3. that they could not have gotten a better deal in a trade for oneal 2 years ago than they did this summer, 4. that the lakers won any championships in teh past 2 years because of the retention of Oneal, 5. do i have to go on or is my point pretty clear? im sure shaq is going to have a better season in miami than he has in the past 2 years as a laker...but the fact that he was already unhappy in LA was obvious 2 years ago and anyone who paid really close attention could have predicted that shaq was going to have 2 declining years...i am by no means saying that his dominance or his career are over, hes still got a few good years in him left...its just that those years were never going to happen in a laker uniform...note that you dont see me knocking the magic hardcore because i think that the inability of hill to recover from his injuries was just plain unfortunate, with t-mac and hill side by side, they would have been an intimidating force... why did orlando trade t-mac (arguably one of the best players in the game) for steve francis? because t-mac was unhappy in orlando and it was clear that his best years (in an orlando jersey) were over...the same was true for shaq 2 years ago...ordinary people may have said i was dumb at the time, but when you look at it right now, it may seem to have been insightful and intelligent because i identified the problems that were going to come before anyone else did...you forget that people also called jerry west dumb for dealing vlade to get kobe in 96...call him dumb now...
ps. i make original analysis and remarks...and my thoughts don't come copy and pasted from what 'experts' may have written...you may not agree with it because of what 'experts' have written and you have read but believe me, i know a lot about the game of basketball...i am a true student of the league and of the game...and if you don't have anything original to say...do not refer to any of my statements that go against conventional thinking as dumb...the ability to regurgitate the thoughts and words of someone else is not intelligence...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting crazytown:</div><div class="quote_post">What little credibilty you had you lost with that statement. You don't much about basketball if you the Magic will win only 21 games this season. They are vastly improved from last year and they'll make the playoffs. And don't give me this, "the western conference is better than the east" crap. Your team just got 5-game swept. 1st time in NBA history! That excuse no longer passes. Especially with Shaq there now. Please don't use that excuse until a western team wins back the NBA Championship. The tides are slowly shifting to the East...</div> I'll admit that the Magic are improving and the east just got a little more credibility with Shaq and the Pistons winning the championship, but I don't get what you're saying with the 5 game sweep. Are you talking about the Laker organization in particular? Cus the Lakers beat the 76ers in 5 games a few years ago.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Lakerland:</div><div class="quote_post">I'll admit that the Magic are improving and the east just got a little more credibility with Shaq and the Pistons winning the championship, but I don't get what you're saying with the 5 game sweep. Are you talking about the Laker organization in particular? Cus the Lakers beat the 76ers in 5 games a few years ago.</div> And actually...the Lakers beat the 76ers in five games, but 4 consecutive...Games 2-5. Sixers shocked everyone by winning the first one, but the Lakers realized that they underestimated them, so they stomped them into the ground for the rest of the series.
when he said 5 game sweep...he was referring to the fact that the pistons outplayed the lakers all game long in game 2...but Kobes impossible shot and overtime performance somehow kept them alive...i agree...the pistons outplayed the lakers through almost the entirety of the game...except for when it really counted the most...and the only player that was unstoppable when it counted the most in that game was Kobe...rip got shut down by kobe, billups was still being his clutch self but just wasnt hitting, and tayshaun was nowhere to be found...
Yeah, and on top of all that, I'd be the MVP too if I was being guarded by Gary Payton, and if I had to hold a guy defensively, who only scored 4 PPG in the Finals. IMO, the real MVP was Ben Wallace...but...isn't that the guy dominating the paint? Sure wasn't Shaq...
It's funny hearing all these comments bashing on Kobe and Shaq. Like the article said, people seem to forget that Shaq has not cared about basketball for a while now. He's fat and out of shape, he doesn't hustle, he doesn't play defense, etc etc. All because he feels that he's stuck playing with Kobe and he doesn't have much to prove anymore after 3 rings and some MVPs. I think he will have at least 2 monstrous years in Miami. Partly because he's re-motivated and also partly he's in the East. Big Ben and co. will have some fun this coming season playing in the same conference as Shaq. Now I will just say it right now that the Lakers will be in playoff contention for sure this coming season. Any team that is openly known to be geared towards a Kobe Bryant is in playoff contention. How deep will they be? I say not higher than 5 or 6. I simply do not see them placing higher than Timberwolves, Kings, Spurs, and Dallas. Maybe Dallas won't be as good this year after losing Nash, but they still got a nice cohesive unit there. Also let's not forget the up and coming teams: Grizzlies, Rockets and Denver. It will be a rough year for Lakers, and, as much of a Laker-hater or Kobe-hater I am, I won't deny the fact that they will be in playoff contention. Funny thing though, when or if the Lakers do well this coming season, most of you Laker fans will say "See what I tell ya? It's all Kobe!". I'd hate to tell you this, but let's not forget Odom, Butler, and Grant. Credit the supporting casts. Don't repeat the same ignorant mistakes those MJ lovers made, he needed supporting casts still to win. Even MJ needed Scottie. However, I contend that MJ doesn't need as much of a supporting cast than Kobe. Have Kobe win some rings without Shaq first then I'll admit this "Kobe > MJ" theory. PS: Hi B-Side
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SupraJames:</div><div class="quote_post">Funny thing though, when or if the Lakers do well this coming season, most of you Laker fans will say "See what I tell ya? It's all Kobe!". I'd hate to tell you this, but let's not forget Odom, Butler, and Grant. Credit the supporting casts. Don't repeat the same ignorant mistakes those MJ lovers made, he needed supporting casts still to win. Even MJ needed Scottie. However, I contend that MJ doesn't need as much of a supporting cast than Kobe. Have Kobe win some rings without Shaq first then I'll admit this "Kobe > MJ" theory.</div> Exactly, never ignore the unsung heroes on the team. MJ won because he had the role players that perfectly complimented him and fit the triangle...every single one of those guys knew their role and executed it perfectly day in and day out. And now with Kobe getting players around him that compliment his game, lets see exactly what when we completely unleash Kobe.
im just waiting for crazytown to respond to my original 2 posts... hey buddy...you gonna have anything original to say? are you gonna back up your thought processes? or is your response just gonna be 'you're stupid'...im banking on the latter...but i just tore your argument so if you're gonna come back with a rebuttal please dont bring that weak ish...as of right now...i am right and you are wrong...because i presented the better argument, so bring your weak rebuttal on and i'll tear that one apart too...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SCBrian:</div><div class="quote_post">im just waiting for crazytown to respond to my original 2 posts... hey buddy...you gonna have anything original to say? are you gonna back up your thought processes? or is your response just gonna be 'you're stupid'...im banking on the latter...but i just tore your argument so if you're gonna come back with a rebuttal please dont bring that weak ish...as of right now...i am right and you are wrong...because i presented the better argument, so bring your weak rebuttal on and i'll tear that one apart too...</div> I concur, I have yet to see crazytown back up his claims.
if the Lakers don't find a big man i don't see kobe taken them to the playoffs. it's not a knock on kobe but the spurs and piston play the same type of defense. ask Larry Brown
1st off, I just skimmed through your post. Don't have time to read it all. And it's quality , not quantity. You had a lot of the latter. Let's breakdown a few of your obvious bias statements: You proclaim how Shaqs contract hindered the Lakers from aquiring players to build around Kobe. You do realize they aguired 2 bad contracts(Odom & Grant)? Here's an excerpt from an NBA expert. Why am I going by an expert you ask? 1) I only go by experts I actually agree with. If my opinions just happens to coincide with an expert then I'll point it out. Cmon bro, you learn this kind of stuff in college, ENG 101 courses. Having sources to back up your claims...anyways...2)Because they have MUCH more credibilty than a guy on a Laker Forum. Why aren't you writing for ESPN or any other NBA-like business? Seems like the perfect occupation for you based an you "knowledge of basketball". WHy are you wasting your time in here writing "elaborate", well thought out arguments" in here. (Note:The quotation marks denotes sarcasm. I wasn't stroking your already huge ego) Anyways, back to the excerpt: Losers of Free Agency: Los Angeles Lakers - You probably know by now where we stand on this one. While true that keeping Shaq and Kobe and Phil Jackson together would have been exceedingly expensive and a virtual commitment to ongoing chaos, the feeling here remains that the Lakers didn't get nearly enough for O'Neal. Not enough size. No established All-Stars. No more financial flexibility than they would have had by keeping the old gang together. In a perfect world, Shaq would have consented to a pay cut and Kobe would have reached out to the other sides of the triangle to seek a truce and Jerry Buss would have listened to the reason coming from his basketball people about breaking this thing up too quickly. Not in Lakerland, though. That kind of stuff, apparently, only happens in San Antonio. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">[strike]1. Oneals contract is not and has not been a hinderance on the progress of the lakers and their ability to make acquisitions in free agency,[/strike] </div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">so before you call it a dumb statement...prove that 1. Oneals contract is not and has not been a hinderance on the progress of the lakers and their ability to make acquisitions in free agency, 2. that the lakers were wrong in choosing to build their future around kobe, 3. that they could not have gotten a better deal in a trade for oneal 2 years ago than they did this summer, 4. that the lakers won any championships in teh past 2 years because of the retention of Oneal, 5. do i have to go on or is my point pretty clear? </div> EDIT: You know what, just that little paragraph alone answers ALL your questions. Which alludes to my original point, Quality over quantity. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">you forget that people also called jerry west dumb for dealing vlade to get kobe in 96...call him dumb now...</div> You forget, Jerry West is no longer with the Lakers. It's Mitch now. And I'd like to see some quotes about that. Where's your proof? Most people though nothing of the trade. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">why did orlando trade t-mac (arguably one of the best players in the game) for steve francis? because t-mac was unhappy in orlando and it was clear that his best years (in an orlando jersey) were over...the same was true for shaq 2 years ago.</div> I'm sorry, since when was the age of 25 mean your best years are over. Again, you credibility just down the tank even more.(If that's even possible). T-Mac ego got the best of him. All he had to do was wait a year. If HIll got hurt and retired his contract would be off the books and D.Howard who has the potential to be a Superstar. BOTTOM LINE: 1)Lakers were fleeced by Miami. They would've gotten the same value had they traded him 2 years ago. 2 years would not have made a difference. 2)What SANE NBA owner would trade the most dominant big man after he just brought the team their 3rd straight Championship? Keep in mind, 1)they went BACK to the Finals the 2 years later. 4 out of 5 years in the NBA Finals. Any sane team would take that in a heartbeat. 2)They were the favorite AGAIN in 02-03. Your reasoning is completely absurd. Sorry kid, just because you have a "unique" (there's those sarcastic quotations again) opinion. Doesn't make it right. Check Mate. Game Over. :king: I've wasted enough time on you. I'm sure your Laker buddies will agree with everything you say. LOOK OUTSIDE THE BOX And that's my final word.
