i don't know why the blames goes all to kobe. look at shaq's history playin' with guards. when he played in orlando magic, he had some arguments with penny hardaway. when he was playin' his early years as a laker, he had some problems with eddie jones. jones was forced to ask to trade him to another team because of shaq. there was an article about a week ago about this, jones said that he hope that shaq 'has grown up'. then he he had this problem with kobe that everybody knows about. what's up with shaq not getting along with his teammates? he talks, or should i say whine to much. now, he said that he'll bring title to miami. big statement and a big mistake. he should back it up and probably won't.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting kobe_8:</div><div class="quote_post">i don't know why the blames goes all to kobe. look at shaq's history playin' with guards. when he played in orlando magic, he had some arguments with penny hardaway. when he was playin' his early years as a laker, he had some problems with eddie jones. jones was forced to ask to trade him to another team because of shaq. there was an article about a week ago about this, jones said that he hope that shaq 'has grown up'. then he he had this problem with kobe that everybody knows about. what's up with shaq not getting along with his teammates? he talks, or should i say whine to much. now, he said that he'll bring title to miami. big statement and a big mistake. he should back it up and probably won't.</div> you must have been living under a rock for the past two years, cuz when the Lakers didn't win the championship, the blame rested a lot on Shaq's shoulders- Shaq is overweight, shaq is lazy, fat, and selfish. Shaq is this and that. He should've had that surgery last summer. He's got a huge contract. This is not saying that Kobe wasn't blamed for the losses but so was Shaq so quit the glorify Kobe bit. Shaq has always been a blunt of everyone's jokes about his weight and fitness. If anything, the last last season, the Lakers getting destroyed by the Spurs, Shaq was heavily criticized for his lack of dominance. Anyways, my point is in LA, blame is tossed onto everyone when things go bad.
Look Kobe and Shaq both have egos, they both want to be the captain of there team. I think both of there egos ecalated after winning 3 championships in a row. I think Shaq is a problem, I think the problem with Shaq is that he didn't go out to every game and give 110%. I mean when your getting 36 million dollars a year your should be going out and trying your hardest not assuming your going to get a contract ext. just because you have the best combination of size and power. I think Shaq is the problem because he can't and won't grow out of his ego, but Kobe being a younger player and just maturing into his prime will effect his ego good or bad. Hopefully with the lost of these last 2 championships its going to help both, Shaq and Kobe, bite there toungs about promises and high goals which is not seaming to stop by Shaq.
Shaq does complain, but saying that it's all Shaq's fault and none of it is Kobe's fault is stupid. I think what a lot of people forget is Shaq makes his teammates better. Ask anyone who's played with him or watched most of his games. He's so dominant that teams have to change their gameplans just for Shaq. Kobe, on the other hand, needs to learn how to make his teammates better. If Kobe would've passed the ball more, we probably wouldn't be having this argument.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Lakerland:</div><div class="quote_post">If Kobe would've passed the ball more, we probably wouldn't be having this argument.</div> 2003-2004 Kobe Bryant Assist Per Game 5.1 Shaquille O'Neal Assist Per Game 2.9 hmmm... now who needs to pass more ball?
kobe_8, stats do not always tell the story, kobe gets much more touches than shaq does affecting some aspects of shaq's game including assists, but I agree. Kobe is not the big ballhog everyone cuts him out to be.
Its both their huge Egos that put a strain on their relationship while playing together with the lakers. You cant point fingers. Its both their fault.
i have no more comments on this issue, refer to other threads if you wanna know my stance... but thats a tite sig trench but never fear...its me and kobe against the world =P
Kobe has flashes here and there of making his teammates better. He just has to learn how to mix his game up like that every game and then he can become one of the greatest players of all-time. Everytime he managed to get close to 30 and get close to 10 dimes they win.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting kobe_8:</div><div class="quote_post">i don't know why the blames goes all to kobe. look at shaq's history playin' with guards. when he played in orlando magic, he had some arguments with penny hardaway. when he was playin' his early years as a laker, he had some problems with eddie jones. jones was forced to ask to trade him to another team because of shaq. there was an article about a week ago about this, jones said that he hope that shaq 'has grown up'. then he he had this problem with kobe that everybody knows about. what's up with shaq not getting along with his teammates? he talks, or should i say whine to much. now, he said that he'll bring title to miami. big statement and a big mistake. he should back it up and probably won't.</div> When Shaq made those arguments about Penny he was about the same age Kobe is now. We don't know what happen with the Lakers when they decided to trade Shaq away. Maybe Kobe said something or not we don't know. but Shaq has been that way since he was here(Cole High School) in SA do you have a problem about now that he is not on your team or what? He ripped David Robinson all the time and you know just like everyone else Dave had always been a very Class Act. please don't hate Shaq now that he is not on your team anymore you should have started to hate him years back.
Simple, Shaq's teamates get jealous because they know that Shaq is the Main Man and they couldn't win squat without him.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting kobe_8:</div><div class="quote_post">2003-2004 Kobe Bryant Assist Per Game 5.1 Shaquille O'Neal Assist Per Game 2.9 hmmm... now who needs to pass more ball? </div> you are kidding right? please... tell me you are kidding by posting those numbers. Because you cant be serious about saying that a VERY dominant low post player (regardless of who he is) should have more assists than a PG/SG or even anywhere near the same amount...
oneinpower - i've been screaming to trade shaq for 2 years...always hated shaq...always will...kobe is the man... rudeezy - miami is theone who aint winnin jack this year or years to come...shaq isnt the man...not anymore... harbinger - not to say that stats mean everything....but 5.1 apg in the regular season and 5.5 apg in the playoffs is quite a few for a sg...the only non-pgs who could match or have more assists than kobe did were lebron and pierce...who handle the ball a lot more than kobe does and initiate teh offense more than kobe does...oh sorry almost forgot vlade too but when you can kick to peja its pretty easy to rack up assists =P and plz dont reply saying 'well when you can feed shaq its easy to get assists'...for the most part shaq is fed in the post and goes 1 on 1 where he makes moves to get his shots...thats how he operates...and theres no assist credited there..
Actually around a quarter of Shaq's points came from alley oops.... And it's pretty damn easy to give alley oops to Shaq compared to other big guys. He's the single legit big man that you can alley oop it to fairly regularly and easily. Big, strong, not easy to move Shaq = easy alley oops.
It amazes me how Lakers fans are blind to how selfish Kobe is, he is nowhere near the team player KG or Duncan are. He loves to be a one man show, and he drove Shaq away. Kobe is the problem, let me use examples from the 2004 NBA finals to show why. Kobe does blatant things that do not help his team ? like ignoring Shaq in Game 4 when Shaq gave the Lakers their only consistent scoring threat. In five games against the Pistons, Kobe averaged 23 points, 2.8 rebounds, 4.4 assists and shot 38% from the field. The Pistons did play great defense but Kobe didn't mind launching wild shots. He needed to get his rather than help the Lakers get theirs. It's not apparent why Kobe went out of his way to not pass the ball to Shaq. He didn't go out of his way to pass him the ball, that's for sure. Of Kobe's 22 assists in five games vs. the Pistons, just nine went to Shaq. For a player who handled the ball a majority of the time, Kobe should have been feeding Shaq more often. The way Shaq manhandled Pistons defenders, he should have received more touches regardless of whom was passing him the ball. In Games 3 and 4, just two of Kobe's seven assists went to Shaq. In Game 4, which the Lakers needed to win, Detroit had trouble stopping Shaq. He scored 36 points on 16-of-21 shooting. Shaq said he was frustrated at his lack of touches at key times. Kobe said he needed to shoot through his shooting woes.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting kobe_8:</div><div class="quote_post">2003-2004 Kobe Bryant Assist Per Game 5.1 Shaquille O'Neal Assist Per Game 2.9 hmmm... now who needs to pass more ball? </div> This actually shows how much Shaq passes. He doens't have the rock as much as Kobe and when he does he either shoots the high percentage or drops dimes. Where's the turnover numbers?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting kobe_8:</div><div class="quote_post">2003-2004 Kobe Bryant Assist Per Game 5.1 Shaquille O'Neal Assist Per Game 2.9 hmmm... now who needs to pass more ball? </div> HAHAHAHA!!! I cant believe this!! Kobe (who runs the ball and brings the ball up court) only has 2 more assists per game than a 7-1 360 pound Center, and you try to use that in favor of Kobe!!! LOL! Kobe should have 5 assists per game to Shaq alone!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting kobe_8:</div><div class="quote_post">2003-2004 Kobe Bryant Assist Per Game 5.1 Shaquille O'Neal Assist Per Game 2.9 hmmm... now who needs to pass more ball? </div> Shaq is a center kobe is a 2 guard he should have more assits. In fact shaq is one of the better passing big men in the NBA Divac has lead the nba centers in assists the last couple of years averaging around 5 a game. You cant expect shaq to have more assists then kobe in the position he plays. I dont consider kobe that selfish. Just a little ignorent and to young to lead a team. I in fact think that lebron is a little more mature than kobe. Kobe cant take critizem some times. Like the game in sac town were he took two shoots the whole first quarter to show people what would happen if he didnt shoot. I believe kobe can average around 7 assists a game if he is not selfish and cuts down on his shots a little. I would like to see the stats for shots taken during the regular season and there shot percentages I know shaq shoots around 58-60% and kobe shoots under 50% not sure who takes the most amount of shots though. If anyone has that stat would they care to post it or I will look for it and come back to this thread later.
