<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SCBrian:</div><div class="quote_post">thats cute...31 votes in your favor before i've even posted...still writing the article...but deal is off...people on here are morons...cant even read instructions on voting...how can you vote when both sides havent been heard?</div> I see. Its wrong that 31 people voted for MJ before you posted. Yet, you fail to mention the 3 people who voted for Kobe. Surely, they are just as moronic as "us" becuase they voted for Kobe before hearing your arguement, right? Nah...we can't have that. Since they voted for Kobe, we'll ignore that and call everyone else a moron.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jiggax23:</div><div class="quote_post">Regardless of what era you play in, when you can dominate your opposition by being more gifted than them, and do it by winning as much as MJ did, you are in the mode of greatness... Wilt was able to dominate his opponents physically, and couldnt win... Kobe is able to dominate during stretches, but he is not so far above the competition that you can say he is greatest... MJ was that much above his competition... And for that stupid pump fake, that is nothing more than a bail out, and i stick by my word... i aint saying that he does it cuz he cant score any other way, im saying he does it cuz he gets himself in so much trouble, that he has to FORCE himself to score someway, and he does that by doing the pumpfake because he cant do it any other way once his defender has stopped him. And SCBrian, post your dissertation, i wanna see what nonsense you have in store now</div> Everyone has been correct in some way or another during this debate...good points brought up...but what I have in bold is wrong. If you do watch Kobe play, it's not a bail out...his fake is part of what he does, almost like his trademark. He leans back and gets a feel for the defense's forearm in his back, and then he'll fade back and either fake the shot and take a leaner, or take a fade-away. If faking a guy out was a bail out...then what would you say about Hakeem Olajuwon, when his trademark move was to pull two fakes in two directions, and take it up strong?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Prodigy:</div><div class="quote_post">Mj was at the right place at the right time</div> Oh he was was he? When he got to the Bulls they were at the top of the NBA right? He was surrounded by good/great players that took alot of pressure off him right? He wasn't expected to LEAD the team night in and night out as a rookie? Give me a break,by making the asinine statement above you show you know very little about the career of Michael Jordan. If at this stage you say Kobe is a better player then you truly have alot to learn about the NBA. Michael Jordan has done what no one before him or since has done. He dominated the League with teams without a 'good' big man. Think about that for a second...the Chicago Bulls built a team around a shooting guard,not a 7 foot center,and won 6 of 8 NBA Championships. Jordan played in an era of exceptional big men and equally as exceptional guards and still he dominated. You cannot compare Kobe to Michael Jordan. There is nothing to compare. Maybe after this season we'll be able to but not yet because for the majority of his time on the Lakers he wasn't even the go-to guy. With Shaq gone ALL the pressure is on Kobe. He won't get alot of the open looks he did with the big fella there and he'll have to rely on himself to be the leader of the team and that means acting like a leader on and off the floor and not getting embroiled in stupid squabbles over whose team it is. A true leader lets his actions,not his words speak for him and this year we will see what kind of player and leader Kobe truly is then we'll be able to more accurately compare him to Michael Jordan.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Vintage:</div><div class="quote_post">I see. Its wrong that 31 people voted for MJ before you posted. Yet, you fail to mention the 3 people who voted for Kobe. Surely, they are just as moronic as "us" becuase they voted for Kobe before hearing your arguement, right? Nah...we can't have that. Since they voted for Kobe, we'll ignore that and call everyone else a moron.</div> that is also true, nobody should have voted blindly... and jigga...if you think the things i write are nonsense...you're probably just not smart enough to understand... im out...the few intelligent people on this board aren't worth dealing with the other idiots...i'll send the article to Mel...he'll post it...and i don't really care what you guys think or say about it...why don't i care...because more than likely none of you would be able to make arguments against it that were intelligent enough to justify responding to...maybe a couple of you might have...vintage, allnet, some others...so to those few, sorry i woulda loved to have debated that with you guys...its my favorite subject to argue haha... and mel - sorry...cant stand these dumbasses anymore again...so once again imma stop posting for awhile...dont really have time for this crap anyways and some of the posts here make me dumber with every line i read...
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> And for that stupid pump fake, that is nothing more than a bail out, and i stick by my word... i aint saying that he does it cuz he cant score any other way, im saying he does it cuz he gets himself in so much trouble, that he has to FORCE himself to score someway, and he does that by doing the pumpfake because he cant do it any other way once his defender has stopped him. </div> a pump fake is a part of basketball, if it works on ur defender that means that defender doesnt want you to take the shot....it is a very useful move, saying a pump fake is "stupid" is stupid in itself.....its a move just like MJ's little hesitation before the fadeaway where he did a little shake.... if u can score, score in any way possible.....i think its even better that he can use a pump fake and make NBA defenders fold so quickly
Actually, we will never knows who's better, because of their situations. Because the players have to play their roles. Kobe played his, and Mike was playing his. We just judge players like that. People say Allen Iverson shoots too much, but he has to, in the ASG he was dishing assists. People say T-mac's ego won't go with Yao, but he said it was Yao's team and he just wants a ring, and he will be dishing out assists, guaranteed. The players on the Olympic team will surprise you, because they are all in a different role/environment and execute/perform on a different level. I just wish I can see the 92 Dream Team practice games when Mike had his team (no refs!), and Magic had his team. I bet those were some awesome battles. When I mean "At the right place at the right time" is he was the first to put on a one-man show, showed the world he don't need big men, cause he can take all the shots he wanted to (this style of play is popular now adays) which caused a flux of media explosion. The ads, slogans, jingles, shoes ,etc. they were all his, he was the first, and kids watch that and go wow "I wanna be like Mike". That is when the emotional attachment was created. I don't know if he actually "changed"(causing one on one matchups decaying the game...wasn't his fault...we were stunned with the glitter and gold and wanted to be like him..."I want to be like Mike"...sounds like brainwashing to me) basketball but he did change Sports Marketing What he did for the NBA was great, and the NBA made tons of $$$ because of him. Now today, every star in league has their sig. shoe and endorsement deals. It's not a big deal no more, no player really sticks out. The one who stands out for now is LBJ because of the hype, shoes, ad, controversies, etc. and now is a pop culture Icon for the 00's, and some people dislike him, whereas of Jordan he was respected and loved by the majority. The NBA wants to create another "Jordan" We witnessed this with Hill, Penny, Vince, AI.....and now with KB8 and LeBron "King" James. But the closest like him is Kobe the speech, the walk, the fire, the dunks, the defense, the mind, the leadership, the shots, the clutchness, the creativity, the charisma, the hangtime, and the tounge. Time goes on, and stars come and go, but we will never know what will happen. Remember he is human, not a god. He's a country boy from NC, and he doesn't mind if all you Jordan worshippers hush for a day, and knows he's not even capable of what you guys might think he can do.Everybody knew who Michael Jordan was, even if you were a bball fan or not. Even people in Antarctica knew who he was (I dunno). His impact was on the world. He was a pop culture icon, and we go WOW! And forget he's human. Nobody will ever get much love and respect like MJ did, because he was the first
Actually in terms of marketing, Penny surpassed Jordan when he came in the league, and for one that says he's human not a god which is extremely obvious you seem to treat and refer to Kobe as if he was a god.
I was talking about Jordan, not Kobe, and I'm saying Kobe has a lil' bit of MJ in him. About the marketing he was the first to make an impact like that. Nike picked the right guy. So other companies started doing it, and would get at every oppurtunity that strikes. That's why I think the work ethic and heart is going down because of $$$. Nike put so much money in LBJ even before he played single pro b-ball game. Nike, Adidas, And1, Reebok, etc. they are l recruiting kids, gettin' them sponsored, making them forget about their edu. and playing ball all day and they end up gettin' screwed. It's all for the money, and people are gettin' spoiled. Just look at the music world also, it's the same. Hip-hop is gettin' mainstream, thus more $$$, crappier ass music. There ain't no dedication then. Money/Power is decaying our society, just look at our President. SORRY IF THIS WAS OFF TOPIC JUST MAKING MY POINT ACROSS PS: I don't treat Kobe like a god, I know sometimes he forces shit, and sometimes makes stupid descisions by trying to be a heroe, but he redeems himself by making better descisions following the neg. or at crucial parts of the game, so they even out. JUST READ THE DAMN POST
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SCBrian:</div><div class="quote_post">that is also true, nobody should have voted blindly... and jigga...if you think the things i write are nonsense...you're probably just not smart enough to understand... </div> Tell me where I said the stuff you write is nonsense. Because I cannot recall when I did that. I was merely pointing out the fact that you mentioned the 31 people who voted for Michael Jordan, but failed to mention the 3 people who voted for Kobe. I was not insinuating that you are unintelligent, just pointing out something you didn't mention in the original post. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> im out...the few intelligent people on this board aren't worth dealing with the other idiots... </div> Trust me, I know how you feel..... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> i'll send the article to Mel...he'll post it...and i don't really care what you guys think or say about it...why don't i care...because more than likely none of you would be able to make arguments against it that were intelligent enough to justify responding to...maybe a couple of you might have...vintage, allnet, some others...so to those few, sorry i woulda loved to have debated that with you guys...its my favorite subject to argue haha... </div> I am not trying to start anything....but...you do care. You care enought to still write the article. You care enough that it gets put up on the site. You still care. But, you are angry at whats taking place now. And although you are contemplating leaving, eventually, you will be back. I know this because I left here pissed at some events that unfolded between a few moderators and I(back when I was one also). But I came back. The good ones always come back, even if its only for a couple of posts here and there. You'll be back.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">PS: I don't treat Kobe like a god, I know sometimes he forces shit, and sometimes makes stupid descisions by trying to be a heroe, but he redeems himself by making better descisions following the neg. or at crucial parts of the game, so they even out. JUST READ THE DAMN POST</div> you need to relate this to yourself, not to me Read your own posts, for some reason everyone that doesn't think Kobe is currently better than Jordan is a Jordan worshipper and think's MJ is a god, yet you who are on the other side are somehow exempt to that right? I know you're going to tell me you didn't say that, but what is this supposed to imply: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Remember he is human, not a god. He's a country boy from NC, and he doesn't mind if <u>all </u> you Jordan worshippers hush for a day, and knows he's not even capable of what you guys might think he can do</div> :thumbsup:
Jordan is David Stern's Commecial Money Maker.... Lebron and formerly Kobe(until that rape ish) are his two new babies. Jordan is as big as he is because of his ability to sell products.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting trenchteam:</div><div class="quote_post">Jordan is David Stern's Commecial Money Maker.... Lebron and formerly Kobe(until that rape ish) are his two new babies. Jordan is as big as he is because of his ability to sell products.</div> Very true, Stern's money men: Jordan Penny Grant Hill Kobe Carter Lebron ....Iverson too
For the record, i never said the pump fake was a stupid move... but to pump fake just so you can jump in to the defender for the purpose of getting a foul is a bail out... i never said it wasn't a smart move, or that its a stupid move... i just said its a bail out the way kobe uses it, cuz he has no intention of scoring, he just wants to get to the line cuz he can't score it any other way after already having tried many times prior to resorting to bailing himself out w/ the fake... if he was pump faking to get open, thats a different story
That pump fake move is not a bail out, that is a correct statement. However he stole it from Jordan. Most of his moves are modeled over Jordan but shot at a lower percentage by Kobe. I wanna see Kobe average the 45ppg.
Poll deleted. Its premature to have votes on 'who has the better argument' when SCBrian hasn't even posted his share.
I used to have a lot of time and respect for John salley, but not after those comments. He prob wants a new TV deal or something, or he fell out with Michael, cause he's talking absolute crap!
KOBE's moves are just like watching someone down the park trying to copy MJ, ok he does it much better then a kid down the park, but you never se him do anything new. It's almost as if he's imagining to be MJ when he plays. Watch Michael, just watch his game, watch his last bulls appearence at MSG, that's perfection. PERIOD>
Comon guys, I think this is a pretty useless debate at the moment. We will only find out for sure who is better of the two when Kobe retires.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mel JBB:</div><div class="quote_post">Poll deleted. Its premature to have votes on 'who has the better argument' when SCBrian hasn't even posted his share.</div> Hahahahahahaha Thank you Mel
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting pidandsid:</div><div class="quote_post">KOBE's moves are just like watching someone down the park trying to copy MJ, ok he does it much better then a kid down the park, but you never se him do anything new. It's almost as if he's imagining to be MJ when he plays. Watch Michael, just watch his game, watch his last bulls appearence at MSG, that's perfection. PERIOD></div> If it was perfection wouldn't he shoot 100%, and committ 0 turnovers?
