"3 seasons? he deservs a ring because of 3 seasons? " Well....a shot at one at least. In my opinion in 3 short years, Carter climbed to the top of the NBA elite. And I think it was because of him that the NBA continued to do well after Jordan left. He was the bridge to the post jordan era. He gave back to the community (before all this trade stuff) and was the NBAs ambassador. Sure Im biased cause Vince is my all time favorite player. Sure he has made some mistakes, nobody can argue that. But when this dark cloud of negativity leaves Vince, I'll be glad that I didn't just bash him like everyone is. Loyal Forever for me.
Magloire + Mash for VC straight up works under the cap. We could throw in Moiso too & they could include Armstrong to balance out the deal. Davis isn't going anywhere and I think he'd be happy to see VC since he would take a lot of the scoring burden off him. Mash might not ever play again. He's worn out his welcome in New Orleans. TO would love Magloire
That may work, but, did you stop to think about something. Ok, New Orleans is now in the West. In the West, it's very nice to have a good big man. Magloire is indeed, a good big man. By trading away him, that's practically throwing away their season in my opinion. I think, having Magloire is going to be a key thing for them next year. If Magloire has a breakout year, I think the Hornets could slip in to the playoffs. But, if they shaft him away entirely soley to get Carter, I think you could kiss em goodbye. They lose their big man and they get an oft-injured Carter. That's not good for them in my opinion. Great for Toronto, since they'd be getting a good big man plus Mash, but, for New Orleans, no. Magloire is getting better and better, had a good year last year, and I think he's the key to success for them out West.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Magloire + Mash for VC straight up works under the cap. We could throw in Moiso too & they could include Armstrong to balance out the deal. Davis isn't going anywhere and I think he'd be happy to see VC since he would take a lot of the scoring burden off him. Mash might not ever play again. He's worn out his welcome in New Orleans. TO would love Magloire</div> I also dont think that Toronto will want Jamal Mashburn
The Raps are better off without Carter and they should trade him now. If the season starts and he has another injury, they'll basically get nothing in return for him next season. Waiting til mid-season is too risky IMO. And seeing as no one in the Raps locker room really respects him, you have to wonder... this is supposedly the leader of your team? Yet everytime he gets knocked down or bumped he drops to the floor like someone just shot him in the leg. 2 minutes later he's running around and dunking on people - riiiiiiiiight. The guy doesn't play much D, he's not the greatest passer, and his nickname has become "Half-Man Half-Season"...
Regardless of his injury troubles, and his lack of production, the main reason why anyone would want Carter (and why TOR won't trade him, unless they get another star in return) is because he reels in the fans like one of those competitive bass fishermen. Toronto's winning percentage has been .465 since the lockout (one year after Vince's rookie season), and their attendance has not dipped below 18,450 fans per game. Meanwhile, if you look at a team like Orlando, who have had the same exact winning percentage over that span, or even Minnesota, with a .624 winning percentage over that span, Minny's highest per game average for a year over that span was 17,846, and Orlando's highest was 15,149. Those are their highest, whereas Toronto's lowest was 18,450! Point is, unless you get another player as electrifying as Vince (and let's face it, I'm not a Vince supporter, but Kobe, T-Mac, Shaq and KG would probably be the list) they can't afford to trade him. Which is why, no matter how much Vince wants to be traded, I really don't see it happening. Raptors management knows it. That's why they quieted the rumors earlier in the summer, and I think they'll do close to anything to keep that attendance figure up--err, I mean, Vince in T-Dot.
Best trades for Carter that in my mind would help all teams involved? <u><font color="DarkOrange"><font size="4">The Suns</font></font></u> <font size="1">Toronto trades: SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.1 minutes) PF Donyell Marshall (14.7 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 36.5 minutes) SF Lamond Murray (6.0 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.9 apg in 15.7 minutes) PF Jerome Moiso (2.9 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.2 apg in 11.9 minutes) Toronto receives: SF Shawn Marion (19.0 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.7 apg in 40.7 minutes) PG Howard Eisley (6.9 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 4.1 apg in 21.8 minutes) SG Nene Hilario (16.7 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 4.4 apg in 40.6 minutes) Change in team outlook: -20.2 ppg, -9.3 rpg, and -0.6 apg. Phoenix trades: SF Shawn Marion (19.0 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.7 apg in 40.7 minutes) PG Howard Eisley (6.9 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 4.1 apg in 21.8 minutes) SG Joe Johnson (16.7 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 4.4 apg in 40.6 minutes) Phoenix receives: SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 73 games) PF Donyell Marshall (14.7 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 82 games) SF Lamond Murray (6.0 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.9 apg in 33 games) Change in team outlook: +0.6 ppg, +1.4 rpg, and -4.0 apg. Denver trades: SG Nene Hilario (16.7 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 4.4 apg in 40.6 minutes) Denver receives: PF Jerome Moiso (2.9 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.2 apg in 35 games) SG Joe Johnson (16.7 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 4.4 apg in 82 games) Change in team outlook: +19.6 ppg, +7.9 rpg, and +4.6 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED</font> <u>Raptors:</u> PG - Rafer Alston SG - Jalen Rose SF - Shawn Marion PF - Chris Bosh C - Nene <u>The Nuggets:</u> PG - Andre Miller SG - Joe Johnson SF - Carmelo Anthony PF - Kenyon Martin C - Marcus Camby <u>Phoenix:</u> PG - Steve Nash SG - Quentin Richardson SF - Vince Carter PF -Amare Stoudemire C - Jake Voshkuhl with Donyell Marshall as the 6th man..... <u><font color="Red"><font size="4">The Clippers</font></font></u> <font size="1">Toronto trades: SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 38.1 minutes) PF Donyell Marshall (14.7 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 36.5 minutes) SF Morris Peterson (8.3 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 1.4 apg in 26.1 minutes) Toronto receives: SG Kerry Kittles (13.1 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 2.5 apg in 34.7 minutes) SF Corey Maggette (20.7 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 3.1 apg in 36.0 minutes) PF Chris Wilcox (8.6 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 0.8 apg in 20.6 minutes) SG Marko Jaric (8.5 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 4.8 apg in 30.4 minutes) Change in team outlook: +5.4 ppg, -0.2 rpg, and +3.5 apg. L.A. Clippers trades: SG Kerry Kittles (13.1 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 2.5 apg in 34.7 minutes) SF Corey Maggette (20.7 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 3.1 apg in 36.0 minutes) PF Chris Wilcox (8.6 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 0.8 apg in 20.6 minutes) SG Marko Jaric (8.5 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 4.8 apg in 30.4 minutes) L.A. Clippers receives: SF Vince Carter (22.5 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 73 games) PF Donyell Marshall (14.7 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 1.5 apg in 82 games) SF Morris Peterson (8.3 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 1.4 apg in 82 games) Change in team outlook: -5.4 ppg, +0.2 rpg, and -3.5 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED</font> <u>Raptors:</u> PG - Rafer Alston SG - Kerry Kittles SF - Corey Maggette PF - Chris Bosh C - Chris Wilcox with Jalen Rose [or Kerry Kittles] as the 6th man...... <u>Clippers:</u> PG - Shaun Livingston SG - Vince Carter SF - Morris Peterson PF - Elton Brand C - Chris Kaman with Donyell Marshall as the 6th man....... I really don't see any losers, the only problem I could see is that the Nuggets want to keep Nene because they don't trust Camby being healthy, but apart from that it works for every team. Phoenix get's a guy to sell tickets and that can play, they also get Donyell Marshall, and Lammond Murray isn't horrible or anything, esepacially for Eisley. Toronto unloads Vince, who cares if he doesn't want to go West, and they get Marion who is exciting and good, Nene to play center, and Eisely, so Milt Palacio doesn't have to play anymore [that's really the best part]. Denver get's a good young SG which is something they've needed, and if Camby can say healthy [], it's a good trade for them, but it could be risky. In the Clippers deal, Vince replaces Maggette, Donyell replaces Wilcox, and Morris Peterson replaces Kittles, it actually seems to me like a sick deal for the Clippers. Vince is better than Maggette and Donyell [right now] than Wilcox, so that is filled by Jaric. The Raptors can play Wilcox at center, and Maggette and Kittles or Maggette and Rose can start at the 2 and 3. The Clippers will have a frontcourt of Vince, Brand and Kaman, and Donyell Marshall will be their 6th man.
I heard alot of time ago about a trade between the kings an raptors trading peja for Vince. I don't know if it's true or not.
I don't know if almost anyone, besides perhaps AI and Shaq, draws the fans Vince does. Which is why I don't think any of those trades could go through, og15, although they're good attempts. And why the Kings-TOR rumors are just that - rumors. Although I could be proven wrong in which case I'd look quite stupid.
Explain to me why you wouldnt miss him much in Toronto. Hes the one that holds that team together. Who else do they got? Chris Bosh thats about it. Hes a developing player that is the 2nd best on the team behind Vince Carter. Jalen Rose is no prize at all. Without Carter...there would be no Raptors. Just because he was hurt doesnt mean he sucks either. This year may be his breakout year...never know. Ive heard hes 100% and ready to play. I wish he would be traded tho to show all of u Raps fans how much he really means to the Raptors. Why do u think the GM of the Raps doesnt wanna trade him? huh? Because he knows that Carter is a very big part of that team including ticket selling wise, scoring wise, and there only Allstar on the team. I wouldnt even think about trading him for any players like Maggette, Marion, etc. They wont contribute to the team as much as Carter has and does. Peja?! Who thought about him? Well that would be a big mistake also. Whats this guy...A shooter..thats it. Nothing else really because he gets open 3s in every game. Not to mention..if the Raptors happened to make the playoffs with their new additions to the team (Rafer)...Peja would choke like he always does. Carter would step it up to a new level in the playoffs like he did in 2001 was it? Well my point is...Dont trade Carter for trash....Talk him into staying in a Raptors Jersey because if Carter happens to have a breakout year...Raptors made the biggest mistake for trading him unless its someone like Pierce, Kobe, Tmac, or Iverson (Iverson STAYS!)...that would be the players that are in Carters league IMO. Oh at btw...if the Raptors need to trade someone...I think it needs to be Jalen Rose. PLZ trade Rose!
good points but now its my turn y he needs to go: -he has conditioning problems -not a leader -players have no respect for him anymore -hes afraid of contact -doubts his team -only had a jumpshot last season but i would give him a second chance to change his mind if the team does well this year
Derf, I agree those are reasons why he's not an ideal player, but that doesn't mean you should trade him. In terms of ticket sales, but more importantly, success of the team, you would never get back equal value for Vince. You can never get back equal value whenever you trade a superstar (see Shaq and T-Mac trades this summer). Trading Vince won't solve those problems, because you won't get a player that's better than Vince. So, granted he has his weaknesses, but you'd be getting weaker by trading him instead of stronger.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting DerfZ:</div><div class="quote_post">good points but now its my turn y he needs to go: -he has conditioning problems -not a leader -players have no respect for him anymore -hes afraid of contact -doubts his team -only had a jumpshot last season but i would give him a second chance to change his mind if the team does well this year</div> My responses to those: - He only missed 3 games last year due to true injury (6 games from the Bowen freak accident) - Your best player does not need to be a leader. Some people aren't born with that personality. Many stars aren't leaders, but about everyteam would want them. - Vince doesn't need anyones respect. If the players have no respect him, why does it matter? They're his oppenents, and his teammates are his workmates. - True but he has reasons...His game is still very good without the contact he intiated in his first few years. - Very true, can't argue with that. - The Jumpshot got him nearly 23 PPG Though? He was really good in the 2nd half after his ankle injury. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know if almost anyone, besides perhaps AI and Shaq, draws the fans Vince does. Which is why I don't think any of those trades could go through, og15, although they're good attempts.</div> There's some kid in Cleveland that attracts quite a few fans.. and some other guy in Denver named Carmelo Anthony too.
Heh, forgot about those. I'll add LeBron to the list, though not Carmelo. I think the added fans were more a function of the team doing much better (partly because of Carmelo, but also because of Andre, Healthy Camby and the rest of the team). If Melo was traded to TOR, would fans flock to see him like the come to see Vince? In my opinion, probably not. But anyway, that's still not the point. AI, Shaq, LeBron is my list, and none of them will be traded.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">if the Raptors need to trade someone...I think it needs to be Jalen Rose. PLZ trade Rose!</div> If you can find a team that wants him and his team high contract then the Raptors would do it. The Raptors can't even trade him for a second round pick because his contract is huge and isn't expiring.
