Does this year propel him over other Power Forwards that never won a 'ship? Or do y'all still think of him the same... but with a ring now? Duncan is still untouchable... but what about Sir Charles? The Mailman?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JUNIOR MINT @ Jun 18 2008, 04:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Does this year propel him over other Power Forwards that never won a 'ship? Or do y'all still think of him the same... but with a ring now? Duncan is still untouchable... but what about Sir Charles? The Mailman?</div> No so much over all of them but up there as one of the greats at his position. The ring just solidifies him more. Now if Boston repeats or even manages a threepeat...then were talking something else entirely....lol
I agree with NNNM. This is the first time that KG got to play wth better players around him, and now we see the end results. Best defense, and a championship. Now if they can repeat it, and then like you said maybe threepeat? He would have to be included in discussions as the top PF ever to play the game.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JUNIOR MINT @ Jun 18 2008, 03:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Does this year propel him over other Power Forwards that never won a 'ship? Or do y'all still think of him the same... but with a ring now? Duncan is still untouchable... but what about Sir Charles? The Mailman?</div> I got him at #5. 1. Karl Malone 2. Tim Duncan 3. Charles Barkley 4. Kevin McHale 5. Kevin Garnett yeah, yeah I know what you're going to say and I don't care. Malone was the better player, Duncan has had the better team success. (p.s. note my av )
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing @ Jun 18 2008, 10:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>For me its Duncan, KG, Barkley, Malone.</div> really? I think you're underating Malone because you most likely caught him around the Jazz NBA finals and after that. If you saw him in the late 80's and early 90's I can't believe you'd have him 4th. This is the best PF ever IMO. Great scorer, excellent rebounder, great at filling the lanes and improved his FT's, Passing and Defence so much that he is a two time MVP. Malone was a beast like Amare or Howard is now. He dominated other PF's. Heck a lot of teams tried putting their Centers on him! Too bad he was also the fastest big man of his era and blew right by them. go watch some Youtube HL's if you can find them of when he was young.
Malone was a pick & roll player, not anything like Amare or any of the traditional PFs (Duncan). I saw him play from his first season on, and I don't remember him posting up anyone. Rather, I remember him being a deadly outside shooter and he got layups from the pick & roll on the roll.
^ Up until the early to mid '90s, Malone went to the basket a lot. Later on, when he sold out his inside game in order to shoot turnaround jumpers, he'd post up - albeit rarely anywhere near the basket.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jun 18 2008, 10:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Malone was a pick & roll player, not anything like Amare or any of the traditional PFs (Duncan). I saw him play from his first season on, and I don't remember him posting up anyone. Rather, I remember him being a deadly outside shooter and he got layups from the pick & roll on the roll.</div> he routinely set up on the right post and would spin to the middle and either dunk or toss a hook up drawing contact for the and 1. His jumper was mediocre at best the first 5-6 years in the league. Towards the mid 90's he started hovering further away from the basket. He got tons of baskets on the break because he could beat other teams big men down the court. He was always attacking the rim. Thurl Bailey was the big man on the Jazz who would take the jumpers way back in the day.
1. Duncan 2. Malone 3. McHale 4. Garnett 5. Barkley or Pettit He's pretty much in the same spot I had him at before. This ring and championship just cements his legacy. He's still the same player he was before.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jun 18 2008, 09:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Barkley, McHale, Malone, KG, Duncan</div> I second that list
1. Tim Duncan 2. Karl Malone 3. Charles Barkley 4. Kevin McHale 5. Kevin Garnett This championship really doesn't do much for KG IMO because he was kind of underwhelming the whole playoffs. If Pierce isn't on that team they don't even get by the Hawks. Duncan lead his team to 4 championships, KG was playing second/third fiddle to Pierce/Allen.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Run BJM @ Jun 18 2008, 11:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>1. Tim Duncan 2. Karl Malone 3. Charles Barkley 4. Kevin McHale 5. Kevin Garnett This championship really doesn't do much for KG IMO because he was kind of underwhelming the whole playoffs. If Pierce isn't on that team they don't even get by the Hawks. Duncan lead his team to 4 championships, KG was playing second/third fiddle to Pierce/Allen.</div> KG had a double double in almost every game in the playoffs. It was only the Finals that he was underwhelming really. A bit against Cleveland as well because they have the best PF rotation in the NBA.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (playaofthegame @ Jun 18 2008, 11:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Run BJM @ Jun 18 2008, 11:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>1. Tim Duncan 2. Karl Malone 3. Charles Barkley 4. Kevin McHale 5. Kevin Garnett This championship really doesn't do much for KG IMO because he was kind of underwhelming the whole playoffs. If Pierce isn't on that team they don't even get by the Hawks. Duncan lead his team to 4 championships, KG was playing second/third fiddle to Pierce/Allen.</div> KG had a double double in almost every game in the playoffs. It was only the Finals that he was underwhelming really. A bit against Cleveland as well because they have the best PF rotation in the NBA. </div> His stats were still good but from what I saw he was timid as hell and didn't dominate at all. Consistently settled for outside jumpers, rarely forced the issue when he should have been scoring every time down the floor, etc. And those have been the knocks on KG for his whole career basically, people were just too ignorant to see it in Minny and now that hes in the spotlight its a big revelation to everyone. Yeah, he still got a double-double but what's that really mean? IMO his impact on the game was below par with his abilities. He wasn't playing poorly, he was just settling for being just a good player instead of stepping up and being a great player like we've seen Shaq and Duncan do so many times. We all know what KG can do, he still put up great stats but to me he wasn't as dominating as he could have (and should have) been.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Run BJM @ Jun 18 2008, 11:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (playaofthegame @ Jun 18 2008, 11:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Run BJM @ Jun 18 2008, 11:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>1. Tim Duncan 2. Karl Malone 3. Charles Barkley 4. Kevin McHale 5. Kevin Garnett This championship really doesn't do much for KG IMO because he was kind of underwhelming the whole playoffs. If Pierce isn't on that team they don't even get by the Hawks. Duncan lead his team to 4 championships, KG was playing second/third fiddle to Pierce/Allen.</div> KG had a double double in almost every game in the playoffs. It was only the Finals that he was underwhelming really. A bit against Cleveland as well because they have the best PF rotation in the NBA. </div> His stats were still good but from what I saw he was timid as hell and didn't dominate at all. Consistently settled for outside jumpers, rarely forced the issue when he should have been scoring every time down the floor, etc. And those have been the knocks on KG for his whole career basically, people were just too ignorant to see it in Minny and now that hes in the spotlight its a big revelation to everyone. Yeah, he still got a double-double but what's that really mean? IMO his impact on the game was below par with his abilities. He wasn't playing poorly, he was just settling for being just a good player instead of stepping up and being a great player like we've seen Shaq and Duncan do so many times. We all know what KG can do, he still put up great stats but to me he wasn't as dominating as he could have (and should have) been. </div> Have to concur, I didn't like how his game was based on Jumpers in the Finals. Course the Lakers didn't do too hot either, though were up against a superior defense.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Run BJM @ Jun 18 2008, 11:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (playaofthegame @ Jun 18 2008, 11:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Run BJM @ Jun 18 2008, 11:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>1. Tim Duncan 2. Karl Malone 3. Charles Barkley 4. Kevin McHale 5. Kevin Garnett This championship really doesn't do much for KG IMO because he was kind of underwhelming the whole playoffs. If Pierce isn't on that team they don't even get by the Hawks. Duncan lead his team to 4 championships, KG was playing second/third fiddle to Pierce/Allen.</div> KG had a double double in almost every game in the playoffs. It was only the Finals that he was underwhelming really. A bit against Cleveland as well because they have the best PF rotation in the NBA. </div> His stats were still good but from what I saw he was timid as hell and didn't dominate at all. Consistently settled for outside jumpers, rarely forced the issue when he should have been scoring every time down the floor, etc. And those have been the knocks on KG for his whole career basically, people were just too ignorant to see it in Minny and now that hes in the spotlight its a big revelation to everyone. Yeah, he still got a double-double but what's that really mean? IMO his impact on the game was below par with his abilities. He wasn't playing poorly, he was just settling for being just a good player instead of stepping up and being a great player like we've seen Shaq and Duncan do so many times. We all know what KG can do, he still put up great stats but to me he wasn't as dominating as he could have (and should have) been. </div> But that's what separates Hakeem Olajuwon, Tim Duncan and Shaquille O'neal..really all-time greats and probably top 10 players to ever play the game from Kevin Garnett or David Robinson, great all-around players but not going to take over the game for you offensively or carry a championship team on his shoulders. People need to realize that those three players I just mentioned (Duncan, O'Neal and Olajuwon) are honestly the only big men/7 footers that have been able to at the snap of the fingers dominate a game and takeover at a championship level in the way that a wing player does in the last 20 years or so. Kevin Garnett never was, never will be this kind of player. But was Charles Barkley? Or Kevin McHale? Those two were two of the best post players to play but they were nowhere near the all-around force that Garnett is. His defense sets him apart. His defense was great throughout the playoffs and that STILL goes unnoticed. And I completely disagree with people who are still criticizing Garnett. Most of you probably just watched the Finals because in the previous rounds he was being aggressive and attacking the rim. I dunno what you were watching.