10/11 - Warriors vs. Thunder

Discussion in 'Golden State Warriors' started by xplicitjc, Oct 11, 2008.

  1. xplicitjc

    xplicitjc cold as a hooker's heart

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    after 3 quarters, i'm liking what i'm seeing on the stat sheet for the most part!!

    Belinelli 20 points on 7-10 shooting with 5 assists
    Demarcus Nelson 10 points 5 assists 3 boards on 5-7 shooting
    Hendrix has 12 pts and 13 boards (6 offensive) with a block
    Harrington has 9 boards

    i know it's preseason against the fricken thunder, but still...it's encouraging!!
     
  2. HiRez

    HiRez Overlord

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    Yeah, lots of bright spots. Especially Hendrix, I hope they don't cut him now. When's the last time you saw a Warrior grab 13 boards in 23 minutes? Maybe Biedrins did it once or twice, and I know its preseason, but I think you have to give him some more looks. We so desperately need that down low beefy banger who is going to shove the Paul Milsaps of the league off the block.

    I will give Harrington props for 9 rebounds but we know he won't do that very often.
     
  3. AlleyOop

    AlleyOop JBB JustBBall Member

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    How about Demarcus Nelson with 18 points, 7 assists, 4 rebounds and 4 assists. He's really been impressive so far.
     
  4. Doctor Kajita

    Doctor Kajita Active Member

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    Hey guys, I was at the game last night. I was very impressed with Hendrix...the guy was a ball magnet. Almost Rodman like. We haven't had a guy like that since...never. Reallly encouraging to see. He would have had a lot more points if he didn't miss so many easy layups. At one point, he stole the ball, went the length of the court, only to miss a layup. The bench was laughing their butts off.

    Bellinelli was also impressive. Not only did all his shots look good, they were taken at the right time. Not Baron-like. He uses the screen very well and passes on the pick-and-roll better than a lot of Warriors, including Stephen Jackson. I would say his ball handling is mediocre. I think Stephen Jackson's handles are better because he can get to any area he wants but Marco needs a screen. It's going to be hard to balance minutes between Marco and Azubuike. But one is a better offensive threat while the other is a better defender and rebounder. So, I guess it's good to have both.

    DeMarcus Nelson is also pretty solid. His shot looks pretty fluid and overall, he didn't make any mistakes. He seems to have a knack for getting steals and the dude's got hops. Sorry for the Dan Dickau fans, but Nelson has a clear advantage over him. At one point, Nelson and CJ Watson played together. Nelson clearly was a bigger presence on the floor. He has better handles, is bigger and stronger, and more athletic.

    I think at the end of the day (or when Ellis comes back), DeMarcus Nelson and Marcus Williams will be our backup PG's.

    Turiaf also impressed me. He made a lot of bad passes, but these are passes I like to see bigs make. When he gets the ball in the post, he will always look for the guy who passed it to him or cutters to the lane. This is something I'd like Biedrins start doing more (and better). His energy is as advertised and he's got long arms for blocking shots. Also, he's a great cheerleader. First one off the bench to cheer his teammates on.

    Brandon Wright did okay. I think he still has to improve but I like what I saw. Nothing overwhelming but I wasn't underwhelmed either.

    I was a bit underwhelmed by Harrington. He scored a lot of points, but I didn't see anything different from last year. Honestly, the guy is going to hold back development of Wright, Randolph (if he plays PF), and Hendrix. That being said, I am jumping the gun on Hendrix, but what he did last night is something Harrington will never do. The guy was just at the right place at the right time every time.
     
  5. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Thanks for the recap Kensaku.

    I'm glad we did add some bulk, tenacity, defense, etc. Turiaf and Hendrix can go toe to toe with the Boozer's, Millsap's, Brand's, Al Jefferson's of the world. They both seem to have a good motor but also unique skills. Nellie's been raving about Turiaf's passing and hes got a decent jumpshot as well. Hendrix has insane mobility for a guy his size (if the combine stats are any indication) and seems to have fantastic hands when grabbing rebounds and even getting steals. Hendrix's hops are a concern though. Hes gonna have to slow down, use more pump fakes, and get a little more crafty.

    And now we got Demarcus Nelson who appears to be the leader to start at PG. All of our other PGs have done nothing so far in pre-season. Nelson is making things happen. Seems to be a ballhawk and lockdown type defender. Hes a very good athlete, very big, very strong, pushes the tempo well, finishes at the rim. His PG skills were a concern but hes been lightyears ahead of everyone else on the roster (except Dickau) when it comes to assist-TO ratio. Hes just making plays right now and no one else is. We could be looking at a Rondo-esque PG maybe lacking some of Rondo's natural PG ability but adding more ability to take it strong to the rack and finish. He ought to fit in great alongside Monta or Belinelli as well.
     
  6. AlleyOop

    AlleyOop JBB JustBBall Member

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    Thanks for the great feedback Kensaku! I really hope Hendrix gets a chance under Nellie -- he's exactly the type of player we need to contend with Boozer and Milsap. The thing I love most about Hendrix is his attitude and personality from his interviews -- he just seems like a great person, and he admits he loves to bang and do the dirty work.

    I also hear you about Harrington -- will we ever see anything different from him? He means well, and is another good person, but unfortunately in his case it does not translate to good power play. You can teach position, but you can't teach hops. Harrington will never have any sort of vertical leap. Further, his fingers are done growing. He'll always be stuck with those small hands (at least this is my observation, could be wrong). He's just not an inside power player and that's what we need at the PF. It's great if you can also shoot the three like Dirk. But Dirk will post you up, bang with you, and score inside. This sets up his outside game. Harrington can't really do that. He rebounds more like a PG than a PF. He's one-dimensional, and like you I agree he's holding up development of the young guys that will most likely be here long term. Hopefully we are able to swing a good deal mid-season.

    I'm shocked that Marcus Williams has made such a lukewarm splash with GS. This was his golden opportunity. The keys to the fastest ferrari in the league were handed to him and he was told simply to "drive." If I were him, I would have hired personal nutritionists, trainers, yoga masters, zen masters, gotten professional massages every day, chiropractic, I would have dumped $1 million dollars just in getting ready to arrive to camp. I would have gone from Williams little "pooch" body build to looking like George St. Pierre. I would have made it my LIFE to make sure I was the most amazing PG Nellie had ever seen. Man! To think it was the open door to a possible long-term multi-million dollar deal with one of the most exciting teams in the league.

    But what has Williams done so far? Apparently just hid in the shadows of the bleachers, it seems. I know most people say he's still the starter regardless, but if you know Nellie then you know that it IS possible for a Matt Barnes or an Azibuike to come out of nowhere and take the starter's role away from you. Looking at the box scores, the reports from camp, and the limited footage I've seen so far, I'd say Watson, Dickau and Nelson are ALL having better camp showings than Williams. I hope for his sake he's just saving himself for the regular season or something?
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2008
  7. jason bourne

    jason bourne JBB JustBBall Member

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    Who can we get for AL and Marcus Williams?
     
  8. AlleyOop

    AlleyOop JBB JustBBall Member

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    Heinrich?
     
  9. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    That'd be a helluva offseason move if that went down.
     
  10. Clif25

    Clif25 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Danny Fortson?
     
  11. Doctor Kajita

    Doctor Kajita Active Member

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    Sorry guys, I totally left out my opinion about Marcus Williams.

    He may not have filled up the stat sheet last night but he knows how to control a team offensively. He had a couple VERY nice passes that neither DeMarcus Nelson or CJ Watson would/could make. He also has a stroke from outside, which doesn't seem forced or awkward. He's got a nice shot and he knows when to take it and when not to take it. From what I saw, he's like Nelson where he lets the game come to him. He doesn't have Baron's handles where he is the game, but maybe that's a good thing. The scouting reports are right though, he doesn't have tremendous speed or quickness, but he seems to know where his teammates need to be and where he needs to be.

    I don't think offloading Marcus Williams is a good idea. He's a good option to have next to Nelson, et al.

    Also, from what I saw from the stands, he talks a lot and gets along real well with his teammates. I think there's an interview by Harrington where he says Williams is a joker and is already well-liked by all.

    So, all that being said, I think we've got some acceptable pieces at PG right now. We won't really tell until final roster cuts are made and we're a couple months into the season (the Monta-less months), but the PG's on the team have a good mindset: get everyone involved in whatever capacity they can. This is good news for all the young guys AND the vets. Getting everyone involved wasn't something Baron did so well towards the end of his Warrior tenure, and that's why I feel we have a better team mindset than when Baron was here, which should translate to more wins in the future (probably not this year).

    One thing about Stephen Jackson. The guy is our undeniable leader. I wouldn't mind if we signed him to an extension. This is his home now. He hasn't hurt the team through injuries or bad attitude (the suspension last year was from when he was with Indiana). Everyone looks up to him, including the coaches. Yesterday, he was doing everything: scoring inside, outside, passing, dribbling, defending. With Baron's absence, his value is very apparent. In other words, he's more valuable than Baron ever was. Yup, I said it.

    Go Warriors!
     
  12. Doctor Kajita

    Doctor Kajita Active Member

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    One last thing. Yeah, it may have been a pre-season game, but Nellie had this lineup in the game starting in the 2nd quarter and well through the end of the game (in variation): Hendrix, Randolph, Wright, Bellinelli. This may be an indication of things to come. It was cool to see the combination of Wright's massive length, Hendrix's muscle, Randolph's athleticism, and Bellinelli's shooting all working together.
     
  13. HiRez

    HiRez Overlord

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    Am I the only one who thinks it will be awkward when Monta comes back? I mean, we have all these hungry guys fighting for PG time and then 3 or 4 months from now, Monta is just going to come strolling in and take over the PG spot, when he's not even a PG? What happens if one of these guys excels and Monta can't cut it, does he go back to SG and SJax gets traded? Does Nelson sit Monta a lot? I wouldn't put it past him. I dunno, seems like all sorts of possibilities for some hurt feelings and soforth.
     
  14. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    Nobody is a star yet at point guard, so maybe the warriors management guys aren't afraid of hurt feelings? A lot of these invites/young players fighting for the starting guard positions have nothing to lose. I don't they expect the dust to settle unless the Warriors are winning. There could be tons of movement if the warriors don't do well or if the management is happy with the chemistry out there. Those small scale contract guys just need something to show the next employers what they got. (watch for stat padding and tenacious play!)

    Kensaku, how did the ball movement look, in general? It sounds like we're doing more inside/outside ball movement since bigger players are involved. Were there any plays where the bigs operated at the top of the key as opposed to playing down low and throwing post kickout passes? Were there any high low plays (Wright to Hendrix)? Sounds like we got more this year than drive and kick which is great. Last year, our offense was utterly predictable and easily stopped if the other team was physically matched up with the Warriors. I'm surprised we did so well with that style.

    Also, it sounds like Belinelli has problems creating separation between himself and the defender. It could be a body strength/endurance issue rather than poor ballhandling since slight contact or pressure or fatigue can cause one to lose control of the dribble. Maybe Belinelli is just soft in that regard where he needs a pick or a screen or else he doesn't feel too comfortable on the drive. It could also be that Belinelli just isn't that quick... He could be fast and athletic, but just not quick footed. He's like Mike Miller or Jrich (quick hands, no foot quickness, good hops, good strength). But Belinelli doesn't have the body of those two players, just the hops, open floor speed, and maybe the energy and shooting ability of one of the two. I'd imagine that Belinelli has more than decent quickness or else we'd be talking Luke Jackson tweener.
     
  15. AlleyOop

    AlleyOop JBB JustBBall Member

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    You can never have too many good players/prospects. If there is a logjam when Monta comes back, because several of these guys have stepped up, well that just means GS has more assets to make trades with. Nelson wouldn't mind if all 4 training camp PGs become starter-types, lol. He'll probably find a way to use them all, such as he did in 2004-2005 Dallas with Jason Terry/Darrell Armstrong/Devin Harris/Marquis Daniels.

    P.S. Good to hear some positive feedback about Williams.
     
  16. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    Exactly. If we were to let's say trade "our version of Al Jefferson" for a "Kevin Garnett", that'd be awesome!
     
  17. Doctor Kajita

    Doctor Kajita Active Member

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    Ball movement looked good. I can't really say there was much high-post plays but then again, I wasn't paying too close attention to it. There were a lot of pick-and-roll plays though. As I mentioned, Turiaf looked for the pass a lot after he received the ball, either high or low. To my surprise, there weren't many questionable 3 point shots. All of the long range shots were deliberately taken (i.e. the guy was open). All in all, I think the offense will run more fluidly this year, but I don't know if that's going to equate to more wins. It just means guys are looking for each other more because we don't have Baron.

    As far as Bellinelli, I wouldn't worry too much about him. He's got a nice offensive skill set that isn't restricted by his athleticism or lack thereof. His main downfalls will be defense and rebounding, but he played hard D that game. I'm pretty high on Bellinelli so excuse my optimism. Next Ginobili :clap:
     
  18. HiRez

    HiRez Overlord

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    It may also have something to do with the fact that star/team leader/captain Baron was guilty of setting the example by taking a large percentage of those bad outside shots, and now he's not here to set that example. That's one thing I was hoping to see. Let's hope the trend continues.
     
  19. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    I'm a Belinelli fan. I don't know why people are so hard on him after one rookie season. I mean Brandan Wright hardly got to play either. I think both those guys need more physical maturity and there will be no complaints about what they do (talented pure position players).

    Sounds like this year may lead to a high % game, something we couldn't do when Baron was out jacking crap up. Sjax was guilty of this too, but I saw more of a player who didn't have the Kobe mentality that Baron had. In Sjax's defense he was at least taking better 3's, getting to the foul line at the same rate as Baron Davis and hitting a higher % from the foul line. What does that say about Sjax, when he's not as great one on one and he still gets to the foul line the same as Baron who is absolutely unstoppable one on one? To me it said that Baron got lazy and settled for his broken outside jumper rather than driving and trying to manufacture an inside shot or call a play. Who said a pass had to be made off the dribble when guys like Sjax and Jrich feed players from the top of the key? In terms of pure point guards, Baron was pretty overrated at setting the table, but he was fantastic at running the break.
     
  20. AlleyOop

    AlleyOop JBB JustBBall Member

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    Agree 100%
     

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