Roy Halladay traded to Phillies; Cliff Lee to Mariners

Discussion in 'MLB General' started by Run BJM, Dec 14, 2009.

  1. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...phillies.halladay.lee/index.html?eref=BrkNews

    Is this really worth it for the Phils? Obviously Halladay is a stud but Lee is really underrated and hes a boss in his own right. I understand that a deciding factor in swapping Lee for Halladay was that Lee wanted to hit the FA market while Halladay is happy to sign an extension. I dunno if the Phillies got that much better but then again Halladay on a long term deal >>>>>> than Lee hitting the open market.

    Mariners are wrecking shop this offseason. Does this put them out of the Jason Bay sweepstakes? I need all contenders to be eliminated, thus forcing Bay to SF mwahahahaha!
     
  2. Mamba

    Mamba The King is Back Staff Member Global Moderator

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    The Mariners signing Figgins is nice defensively, but it isn't a drastic move for them. Hernandez and Lee is going to be a sick 1-2 punch, but I don't think they've got the pop to contend with the Rangers and Angels.

    Bay to Seattle was never going to happen, IMO. I read Bay doesn't want to go to SF, too. I don't see him ending up there. He'll end up back in Boston or hopefully the Angels' put together another offer to him. However, I don't think it puts them out the running for a bat. They didn't pay any money for Lee, they traded prospects.

    And yeah, I think this is a good move for Philly. Lee isn't that much of a drop off from Halladay, but the fact that he wants to be on the FA market is why they made the move.
     
  3. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Sportscenter just reported that the Angels are closing in on a 1 year, 6.5 mil deal for Hideki Matsui BTW. And yeah I get the feeling Bay is going to go back to Boston. I know the Mets made an offer but if he doesn't want to play in SF why would he want to play for the Mets? He said he likes Seattle because he wants to be closer to his home in Canada. Isn't SF closer than NY? SF has a good team and their park isn't as bad to hit in as the new Mets ballpark.

    Seems like his number 1 priority is MONEY and getting that fifth year on the contract. I just can't see why he wouldn't play in SF but he would play in NY unless he just likes the spotlight or something. He just wants to get paid it seems to me. Anywho, since the Angels lost out on Lackey and Halladay and there are few other options for top-level starting pitching I hear they could throw the rest of their cash at Bay.
     
  4. 44Thrilla

    44Thrilla cuatro cuatro

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    This is such a weird trade. Lee was so great for them in the postseason... whatever, now the Red Sox don't have to face Roy 4+ times a year.
     
  5. J_Ray

    J_Ray JBB JustBBall Member

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    I smell fear. Mariners were pretty young last year as it was, and there should be some improvement in their youth while they still have money to spend.
     
  6. Lost One

    Lost One ...

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    After how well received Lee was by the fans, and how well he played during the postseason, this is a big shocker. I wonder what type of prospects the Phillies had to give up to acquire Halladay. Even though Halladay is an upgrade, it's still a very weird trade. I guess a contract extension was a huge ticking point, and the management didn't think Lee would resign for reasonable money. But Phillies are looking good for next year.
     
  7. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    Halladay is going to dominate even more in the NL, but I'm not sure how much they improve with this trade? Cliff Lee was unbelievable in the post season for them and a lot less mileage on the arm.

    Seattle has made two blockbuster moves this offseason. King Felix & Lee is nasty at the top of the rotation.

    These deals today should create a domino effect.
     
  8. Mamba

    Mamba The King is Back Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I still fail to see how Figgy is a blockbuster deal.

    And yeah, I forgot about the mileage on the arm. Why would Philly do this? This feels like a trade just to make a trade.
     
  9. Lost One

    Lost One ...

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    It's because Lee won't sign an extension but Halladay will.

    Lee wants CC type money (or at least that's what I heard), but Halladay said he'd take a slight paycut to get out of Toronto. So I guess Philly doesn't think they can keep Lee long term so they want to swing a deal for Halladay, who will sign an extension.

    I dunno I'm kind of confused too...
     
  10. drexlersdad

    drexlersdad SABAS

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    phillies do this to avoid lee hitting free agency, basically swap lee for halladay, do that every day of the week.

    and seatle is making moves, they got money up there.
     
  11. Chutney

    Chutney MON-STRAWRRR!!1!

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    So the Jays would be getting a mix of prospects from both the Mariners and Phillies, right? You guys will have to help me know what we got when the list of players actually comes out.

    It's sad to see Halladay go, even though it was an inevitability. Glad it wasn't the Red Sox or Yankees though, and I hope Roy wins a championship before he retires.
     
  12. J_Ray

    J_Ray JBB JustBBall Member

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    Do you realize how good Figgins was last year? OBP of almost .400, league leader in steals, 114 runs, and 54 RBI's in leadoff spot. Now stick him behind Ichiro who can do similar things in a pitchers ballpark like Safeco. Mariners aren't going to win with power, they are going to win with great pitching, defense, and manufacturing runs playing small ball. Mariners had one of the best pitching staffs last year while they had several injuries to their offense with almost every starter missing significant time. They had guys like Langerhauns, Josh Wilson, Mike Carp, and a few other no names forced into action because they couldn't put together a lineup with all their injuries. Mariners also had a span where the closer role was questionable and they blew more games than you can count on a hand. These aren't the only moves they will make either I'm betting because 50M were lifted off the books and they've only spent about $20M.
     
  13. Mamba

    Mamba The King is Back Staff Member Global Moderator

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    You'll also notice Figgy benefited greatly from having Abreu behind him. I'm not saying Figgy is a bad player, I've seen him for years. He's a good player, but you'll notice how streaky he is and how easy he can be to K. When he's hot, he's awesome, but when he slumps, be prepared for some frustrating times.

    You'll still finish 3rd in the AL West :]
     
  14. J_Ray

    J_Ray JBB JustBBall Member

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    Really there isn't much of a difference when you have a guy like Ichiro on base most of the time than having a guy behind you. Figgins will still see good pitches, and you are just defending the Angels for letting him loose. Angels have lost a lot of talent so far no matter how you want to look at it, and there isn't a John Lackey coming out of the farm system to replace his production quite yet for you guys and Wood or Aybar won't put up nearly the production Figgins put up @ 3B in the leadoff spot.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2009
  15. Mamba

    Mamba The King is Back Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Aybar might. He's got the talent.

    Wood will put up power numbers IF he can adjust.

    I'm not concerned by the loss of Figgy @ all. If you make it to the post-seaosn, you'll know why. And the Lackey loss hurts only because we pulled back on our pursuit of Halladay. Lackey isn't a true ace and I've always said that. Kazmir has the potential, he just needs to find the consistency. Same with Weaver.
     
  16. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    Halladay is going to agree to a 3 year/$60M extension with the Phillies.

    Lee could end up being a 1 year rental by the Mariners and if they aren't in contention I wouldn't be surprised to see him traded again.
     
  17. J_Ray

    J_Ray JBB JustBBall Member

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    Worst case scenario is the Mariners get Cy Young quality pitching for a year and get 2 1st Rounders if he flees in free agency.

     
  18. Mamba

    Mamba The King is Back Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I just don't get how the Phillies end up with Halladay + prospects for trading Lee + prospects.

    I think they win this deal.

    Will the Mariners be able to afford to keep Lee long term?
     
  19. J_Ray

    J_Ray JBB JustBBall Member

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    It completely boils down to the quality of prospects. Drabek is clearly the best prospect, while d'Arnaud and Taylor both are more highly valued than the guys they received. Aumont is a live arm, but was being groomed to be a set-up man for Seattle, while Gillies is still a very raw player with possible difficulties from being 80% deaf, but still a talented player. I don't know much about Juan Ramirez.

    As for the Mariners signing Lee long term, its still a question mark. The worst case scenario is that they either trade him later this season, or let him walk for 2 1st rounders. Either way, Mariners didn't really give up much talent for a guy of Lee's caliber as they gave up guys that were extras in their farm system really.
     
  20. Mamba

    Mamba The King is Back Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Its a great trade for them. I love the front two of their rotation. Felix and Lee is damn scary. If they can get some offense going, they can definitely contend in the West.
     

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