Gonna start it now: ALL HOMER MAN CRUSH on Johnny Flynn

[LameR]

It's even more critical to see what Flynn is really all about because this draft class is thin at PG. The highest projected PG to be drafted is Damian Lillard from Weber State and he's more of a combo guard. I don't think we'lll find our answer at PG through the draft this year. With the circumstances that Flynn has been through (i.e. injuries and wrong fit), Flynn could in essence be a 3rd pseudo-lottery pick this year.

Great point! Repped.

[LameR]

Flynn, on the other hand, isn't big and isn't particularly fast. Isn't a very good shooter.

Not trying to pile on you here Ed, but Flynn's athleticism is actually one of his strengths.

From the combine (Smith in parenthesis)
3/4: 3.23 (3.17)
10.86 lane agility (11.05)
6' 1'' (6'4'') in shoes, 6' 4'' wingspan (6'6'')
33 (28.5) inch no step / 40 (34) inch vertical
Athletic strengths listed: Change of gears/hesitation moves, lateral quickness, conditioning, excellent first step, explosiveness
Athletic weaknesses listed: Average wingspan, undersized
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jonny-Flynn-1245/
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Nolan-Smith-1118/


Now granted, this is from prior to the draft, and especially after injuries he could be a step down in terms of athleticism, but his quickness is actually one of his strengths. He has physical abilities that Nolan doesn't. Nolan's got size on him for sure, but I think Flynn is a lot better in terms of actual potential as a starter at some point, and for me that's more than enough of a reason to give him more burn than Nolan. Again, I'm 100% willing to admit that I've liked Flynn since his 'cuse days, but I also have been pretty optimistic about Smith in the past as well-I just haven't seen attributes or abilities to convince me he could potentially be a PGotF.

[PapaG]

A lot of players who had quality careers, started with rookie years with an even higher usage rate than Flynn, yet got a lower PER. Note our own Cliff Robinson near the bottom of the list.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...=&order_by=per

Cliff Robinson was a 14 PER role player at the end of this 3rd season, and was a 2nd round draft pick. Flynn is a <9 PER PG that can't get minutes on a team that is trying to tank. His 3rd team in 3 years, and as a much higher draft pick than Cliff (Flynn was 6th overall), who was a solid, but not even very good, NBA player.

Dumb comparision. No surprise, though, considering who posted it.

[LameR]

Cliff Robinson was a 14 PER role player at the end of this 3rd season, and was a 2nd round draft pick. Flynn is a <9 PER PG that can't get minutes on a team that is trying to tank. His 3rd team in 3 years, and as a much higher draft pick than Cliff (Flynn was 6th overall), who was a solid, but not even very good, NBA player.

A couple of things...

The reason he can't get minutes on "a team that's trying to tank" is because the coach isn't trying to tank. Check blazersedge for Caleb's comments on it.

"He brings speed at the point guard position," he said. "We want Jonny, Hasheem [Thabeet] and J.J. to keep going through the process on offense and defense. When they get their opportunity, which they will, we want them to be in a good position to succeed."

In context of the full post (that I didn't post because I wanted you to actually read what I put down), it's pretty obvious he wants to get guys who have just become part of the team used to what they're actually supposed to be doing out there before throwing them in. With Hickson, it's a bit different because he's got more experience in the league, and not playing a position that dictates the flow of the offense (PG).
Dave also has some good input here:
http://www.blazersedge.com/2012/3/26...2012#storyjump

I want to quote lots of parts of it, but I'll just quote this:

If you think Felton and Crawford would happily come in to fill 10 of those minutes in their new, end-of-bench roles, think again. They'd view the demotion as an insult and a direct blow to their future chances of a contract. They'd fume and fester, destroying the locker room even further.

It's not really a surprise that Flynn got traded and barely played. With Rubio coming over, Flynn coming off of an injury, it made sense for them to ship him off. On the Rockets, he was playing behind Lowry, who for a good chunk of the season people were saying was a potential all-star, and Dragic who is obviously a hot commodity because he's been averaging great numbers. So it's not really a surprise that he was traded twice given the circumstances, and I'm not sure why you'd be surprised his PER is so low when he's barely playing. Someone mentioned in another thread the fact that one good game from him could knock him solidly into double digits.

It's easy to jump to conclusions without taking the circumstances into account. This isn't to say Flynn is going to come in and put up Steve Nash numbers, or even Jose Calderon, but I think you're making observations without putting them into their proper context.

[Natebishop3]

Of course Crawford and Felton would fume. Fuck them. Should have cut Felton and told Jamal not to come around the team any longer.

[LameR]

Of course Crawford and Felton would fume. Fuck them. Should have cut Felton and told Jamal not to come around the team any longer.

Should have, but didn't unfortunately, and if we did now it'd look pretty unprofessional (heck, it would've then too). That's really gonna make the other players on the team want to work hard, or even "recruit" free agents. It's about saving face at this point. A team that makes the playoffs after a strong finish (and after changing coaches) is going to be a lot more attractive in getting free agents to sign here than a team that traded away two starters, cut another and the sixth man, and is going into full-blown rebuild mode. Ultimately though, I think it's gonna be more on LMA and others to get free agents to come here. It's going to have to come from their mouths, not our management, but it's a lot easier sell if the team makes the playoffs.

[jlprk]

Of course Crawford and Felton would fume. Fuck them. Should have cut Felton and told Jamal not to come around the team any longer.

There's still time. Why don't you go tell him?

[PapaG]

Should have, but didn't unfortunately, and if we did now it'd look pretty unprofessional (heck, it would've then too). That's really gonna make the other players on the team want to work hard, or even "recruit" free agents. It's about saving face at this point. A team that makes the playoffs after a strong finish (and after changing coaches) is going to be a lot more attractive in getting free agents to sign here than a team that traded away two starters, cut another and the sixth man, and is going into full-blown rebuild mode. Ultimately though, I think it's gonna be more on LMA and others to get free agents to come here. It's going to have to come from their mouths, not our management, but it's a lot easier sell if the team makes the playoffs.

As long as LMA is in Portland, that's more important to 'recruiting' a star player than squeaking into the playoffs, or ending up at the tail end of the lottery. Had LMA been traded for draft picks, it wouldn't matter if the team won every game the rest of the year to make the playoffs. Star players want to play with other star players, and fortunately, Portland at least managed to hold onto the biggest asset they have to expedite a rebuilding process.

Playing Felton 34 minutes/game to beat a terrible GSW at home by 3 points is just dumb, though.

[HailBlazers]

Playing Felton 34 minutes/game to beat a terrible GSW at home by 3 points is just dumb, though.

Almost as dumb as playing to lose at home.

[LameR]

As long as LMA is in Portland, that's more important to 'recruiting' a star player than squeaking into the playoffs.

Why can't we have both?

[B-Roy]

Almost as dumb as playing to lose at home.

What do we lose this season by losing? Give me an honest answer, not something based in conspiracy theory.

[HailBlazers]

What do we lose this season by losing? Give me an honest answer, not something based in conspiracy theory.

Fans hard earned money, Momentum going into next season, and any perceived atmosphere of winning. The goal is to attract talent here for a Re-Tool, not a Rebuild that's successful 5 years down the road.

[magnifier661]

Hail nailed it. You guys don't understand that season ticket holders pay good money to see the team win or at leat try to win. Losing on purpose will lose a fan base.

[B-Roy]

Fans hard earned money, Momentum going into next season, and any perceived atmosphere of winning. The goal is to attract talent here for a Re-Tool, not a Rebuild that's successful 5 years down the road.

Neither of these things are measurable or significant.

You honestly think "momentum going into next season" is important? LOL....

[B-Roy]

Hail nailed it. You guys don't understand that season ticket holders pay good money to see the team win or at leat try to win. Losing on purpose will lose a fan base.

Playing Flynn over Felton doesn't even have to be "trying to lose". In all honesty, Flynn isn't much worse than Felton (who's basically just on a hot streak).

[Natebishop3]

Fans hard earned money, Momentum going into next season, and any perceived atmosphere of winning. The goal is to attract talent here for a Re-Tool, not a Rebuild that's successful 5 years down the road.

Momentum going into next season? Wow...... That will be interesting when more than half the team is new faces. Will Aldridge and Batum tell all the new guys that we have momentum going into next season because we just barely missed the playoffs?

[HailBlazers]

You honestly think "momentum going into next season" is important?

Absolutely, player development is won or lost in the off-season, and momentum is key in them busting their ass. Not to mention recruiting others to come join them.

[magnifier661]

Playing Flynn over Felton doesn't even have to be "trying to lose". In all honesty, Flynn isn't much worse than Felton (who's basically just on a hot streak).

Losing on purpose does. Don't get me wrong. I'm wondering why Flynn Ian getting any burn. I think we can still win games with him playing significant minutes. But this thread went from Flynn needing minutes to let's tank and playing Flynn will help us tank. If that's the only reason to play Flynn, then I vote no. Fortunately I disagree with many of you and think the opposite.

[Blazer4ever]

Why win?! Why be a fan?

Or let me ask it this way - Why lose? Is having say 8th pick instead of 15th more important than possibly making the playoffs?

[Natebishop3]

Why win?! Why be a fan?

Or let me ask it this way - Why lose? Is having say 8th pick instead of 15th more important than possibly making the playoffs?

Yes... yes it is. In a deep draft a seven spot edge makes all the difference in the world.... and if you don't remember, we won the #1 overall pick from the 7th spot, so you want to be as close as possible. Why do you guys want to make the playoffs so bad? You realize the Thunder would mop the floor with us, right? This team has no bench. All we're doing right now is damaging draft position. That's it.

[Nikolokolus]

Why win?! Why be a fan?

Or let me ask it this way - Why lose? Is having say 8th pick instead of 15th more important than possibly making the playoffs?

Are you only going to root for the team this year and then turn in your fan card after that? Are you buying into the whole Mayan calender thingy and think that it's truly now or never? This season is already lost, but some people still don't believe it, they see the twitching limbs and the rattle coming from the throat and think it can still be saved, but they don't see the flies buzzing around.

I will never understand the mentality of people that would rather see the team fart around hovering at the 10-7th position in the conference for the next 4 years, never bad enough to be embarrassed, but never good enough to actually do a damn thing? 'Cause that's what this team is likely to do if they do nothing but keep picking in the 15-20th range of the draft every year ... and there's no guarantees we'll get to take that good New Jersey pick this year or next (and who knows where they'll be picking two years from now when Aldridge is 28 and coming to the end of his contract).

The year to add reinforcements is this summer -- both in free agency and via the draft.

[B-Roy]

Absolutely, player development is won or lost in the off-season, and momentum is key in them busting their ass. Not to mention recruiting others to come join them.

All based on conjecture. Sorry, I don't buy it.

You don't think players are smart enough to realize when a team is tanking?

[Nikolokolus]

Absolutely, player development is won or lost in the off-season, and momentum is key in them busting their ass. Not to mention recruiting others to come join them.

Guys typically (the good ones anyway) try to add something to their game in the off-season, but there is no substitute for court time and real competition for developing young guys. Summer league and individual workouts aren't bad, but there's really no comparison.

[BBert]

I honestly don't think playing Flynn will "help us tank". I think once he gets comfortable here, he will be a marked improvement over Felton in terms of how he facilitates for his teammates. I don't think Kaleb will let him be a shoot first PG, and the few minutes he played last week, he didn't play like one. He was quick and active and I loved his passing. I won't have a solid opinion until I see him play real minutes, of course. As others have pointed out, if Flynn starts taking some of Felton's minutes, that cancer might "help us tank", so there's that angle I suppose. I don't want to see Flynn play, to lose, I want to see him play to see what he can do and so the coaches can evaluate him before the off season.

[B-Roy]

So how many Flynnsane fans do we have here?