For anyone thinking Israel is showing restraint and only targeting Hamas

[video=youtube;Hd20ow4wNp4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd20ow4wNp4[/video]

What say you?

 

When you kidnap and kill three innocent teenagers, you lost all right to expect "restraint."

 

both countries look like assholes who don't know how to be civil.

 

What proof has Israel provided to suggest Hamas is responsible for this? If Hamas are indeed terrorists, don't you think they would take responsibility?

Do you find the same outrage when innocent Palestinians are murdered? I guess you can't since the American media doesn't really shine the light on that when it happens. They didn't even cover the American teenage who got beat up by the Israeli army.

 

This kind of mock Internet outrage is so much BS. Right, I am not upset when innocent Palestinians are murdered. I have been to Palestine (Nablus), I saw first hand what kind of horrid conditions they live under. That doesn't excuse he fact that THIS TIME, the violence cycle began when the three teenagers were kidnapped.

A pox on both their houses.

Duh.

 

I'm glad you can acknowledge the porous conditions Palestinians are kept in. Heck, even the UN has been saying that the Israelis have been stealing water from the Palestinians amongst other things. But the notion that the violence really ever stopped for it to begin again by the kidnapping of three Israeli teenagers seems off. Again, Israel has provided no proof that Hamas was behind the attack.

 

I agree there is no "proof" that Hamas did it, EXCEPT that three Israeli teens were kidnapped in the West Bank and murdered. In the law there is a saying, "Res ipsa loquiter" - Latin for "The thing speaks for itself."

Of course some Palestinian did it. The thing speaks for itself. The lack of overt proof doesnt mean we can't deduce what happened. But more abhorrent maybe is the revenge kidnapping and murder of the Palestinian youth.

I'm a Jew. I have my preconceived notions. But many of them died when I went to Nablus.

They are all insane over there.

 

It's all really atrocious. I'd love to hear more about your experiences and how some of your preconceived notions changed when you went to Nablus. Unfortunately, there is nothing in our media accurately reporting on what's happening over there.

To me, I think it's disgusting that our media has turned this to a war of religion. It so clearly is not. There are plenty of good people on both sides speaking out against IDF and Hamas but we don't get to hear them.

 

Another point of view, from Charles Krauthammmer, with whom I rarely agree, but pretty much do this time:

Morally Clarity

Israel accepts an Egyptian-proposed Gaza cease-fire; Hamas keeps firing. Hamas deliberately aims rockets at civilians; Israel painstakingly tries to avoid them, actually telephoning civilians in the area and dropping warning charges, so-called roof knocking.

“Here’s the difference between us,” explains the Israeli prime minister. “We’re using missile defense to protect our civilians and they’re using their civilians to protect their missiles.”

Rarely does international politics present a moment of such moral clarity. Yet we routinely hear this Israel-Gaza fighting described as a morally equivalent “cycle of violence.” This is absurd. What possible interest can Israel have in cross-border fighting? Everyone knows Hamas set off this mini-war. And everyone knows Hamas’ proudly self-declared raison d’etre: the eradication of Israel and its Jews.

Apologists for Hamas attribute the bloodlust to the Israeli occupation and blockade. Occupation? There is not a soldier, not a settler, not a single Israeli in Gaza. Does no one remember anything? It was less than 10 years ago that worldwide television showed the Israeli army pulling diehard settlers off synagogue roofs in Gaza as Israel uprooted it settlements, expelled its citizens, withdrew its military and turned every inch of Gaza over to the Palestinians.

There was no blockade. On the contrary. Israel wanted this new Palestinian state to succeed. To help the Gaza economy, Israel gave the Palestinians its 3,000 greenhouses that had produced fruit and flowers for export. It opened border crossings and encouraged commerce.

The whole idea was to establish the model for two states living peacefully and productively side by side. No one seems to remember that simultaneous with the Gaza withdrawal, Israel dismantled four smaller settlements in the northern West Bank as a clear signal of Israel’s desire to leave the West Bank too and thus achieve an amicable two-state solution.

And how did the Gaza Palestinians react to being granted by the Israelis what no previous ruler, neither Egyptian, nor British, nor Turkish, had ever given them — an independent territory? First, they demolished the greenhouses. Then they elected Hamas. Then, instead of building a state with its attendant political and economic institutions, they spent the better part of a decade turning Gaza into a massive military base, brimming with terror weapons, to make ceaseless war on Israel.

Where are the roads and rail, the industry and infrastructure of the new Palestinian state? Nowhere. Instead, they built mile upon mile of underground tunnels to hide their weapons and, when the going gets tough, their military commanders. They spent millions importing and producing rockets, launchers, mortars, small arms, even drones. They deliberately placed them in schools, hospitals, mosques and private homes to better expose their own civilians. And from which they fire rockets at Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.

Why? The rockets can’t even inflict serious damage, being almost uniformly intercepted by Israel’s Iron Dome anti-missile system. Even West Bank leader Mahmoud Abbas has asked: “What are you trying to achieve by sending rockets?”

It makes no sense. Unless you understand, as a Washington Post editorial explained, that the whole point is to draw Israeli counterfire.

This produces dead Palestinians for international television. Which is why Hamas perversely urges its own people not to seek safety when Israel drops leaflets warning of an imminent attack.

To deliberately wage war so that your own people can be telegenically killed is indeed moral and tactical insanity. But it rests on a very rational premise: Given the Orwellian state of the world’s treatment of Israel (see: the U.N.’s grotesque Human Rights Council), fueled by a mix of classic anti-Semitism, near-total historical ignorance and reflexive sympathy for the ostensible Third World underdog, these eruptions featuring Palestinian casualties ultimately undermine support for Israel’s legitimacy and right to self-defense.

In a world of such Kafkaesque ethical inversions, Hamas’ depravity begins to make sense. This is a world in which the Munich massacre is a movie and the murder of Klinghoffer is an opera — both deeply sympathetic to the killers. This is a world in which the U.N. ignores humanity’s worst war criminals while incessantly condemning Israel, a state warred upon for 66 years which nonetheless goes to extraordinary lengths to avoid harming the very innocents its enemies use as shields.

It’s to the Israelis’ credit that amid all this madness they haven’t lost their moral scruples. Or their nerve. Those outside the region have the minimum obligation, therefore, to expose the madness and speak the truth. Rarely has it been so blindingly clear.

Copyright the Washington Post

 

Murder is murder.

War is state-sponsored murder.

Terrorism is privately-sponsored murder.

All involved all murderers, and nearly all the victims are innocents.

If their gods weren't fiction they'd all be going to hell.

 

Krauthammmer is rarely wrong so take hart, you must be improving.

 

space lasers? for realz?

 

Until one side bulldozes the other, this will go on and on and on. Just like the war on the West. Religion differences create war.

 

Pretty well laid out by Krauthammmer. I wouldn't give Isreal the total pass he does, but mostly that's accurate.

 

Here's the news you won't find wherever the West controls the media.

http://electronicintifada.net/blog

For dessert: Syria

https://plus.google.com/114466114072640224993/posts

But there's good news. The Guantanamo PX will be made environmentally clean.

http://www.upi.com/Science_News/201...o-Guantanamo-Bay/9791405005685/?spt=sec&or=sn

 

How much provocation should one country ignore?

 

Nice try, but I was speaking of Israel.