Forman: McDermott ‘A Fit With This Team In The Long Term’

Discussion in 'Chicago Bulls' started by transplant, Jul 24, 2014.

  1. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Article

    The article is really just excerpts from a SCORE interview (Mulligan and Hanley) this morning. There's a link to the full interview. There's more to it than just McDermott including some on Kevin Love, but nothing particularly earth-shaking.

    I'll say this for Forman, if he's got McDermott, Mirotic and Gibson on the trade table, he's certainly practiced at the art of deception.
     
  2. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Forman didn’t directly address any of the Love trade rumors, as talking about such movement of a player on another team can be considered tampering by the NBA. He still left the door open in speaking generally, though.

    “Where we’re at today, we feel good about our roster,” Forman said. “We feel good about the additions. Obviously, this league has turned into a 12-month league. And it’s our job — me and John (Paxson), and Jerry and Michael Reinsdorf — to always be having conversations and just having a feel of what’s going on around the league and the marketplace. If we feel there’s opportunity, we’ll always explore it.
     
  3. TomBoerwinkle#1

    TomBoerwinkle#1 Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    As I posted on the Love thread an offer is rumored to be tendered that includes McBuckets and a bucketful of other assets.

    Somewhat conflicted.
     
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    What I think is that McBuckets won't be as good in Minny as he would be here.

    Like BG and Lu when they moved on.

    I'm also fairly certain that Love will be a better player here.
     
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  5. Bullsville

    Bullsville Intelligent Bulls Fan

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    It seems rather stupid not to trade for Love, but then I read a comment on Doug's blog that gave me major pause- he might just be the next Boozer.

    Stats at age 25 (per 36 because Love played a few more minutes per game)-

    Booz- 21.8 points, 12.2 rebounds, 24.1 PER, .588 TS%, .561 eFG%
    Love- 25.9 points, 12.4 rebounds, 26.9 PER, .591 TS%, .524 eFG%

    And Love is no better of a defender than Boozer was.

    Boozer only cost us cap space, Love will cost us three really good players. We got lucky that McDoug fell to us at #11, and lucky that Mirotic said when he was drafted that he would only play for the Bulls or Lakers.

    Not to mention Taj, who gave us 19.3 points, 9.8 rebounds, 2.8 assists and 1.75 blocks in 8 starts last season. And 16.0 points, 11.8 rebounds, 2.0 assists and 3.2 blocks in 5 starts the year before.

    I understand that you can't turn down a trade for a superstar, but this isn't LeBron or Durant we're talking about here.

    In the last 4 years, in the last 10 seconds of games that were within 3 points one way or the other, Love is 3/16 from the field, 2/10 on 3's, and 3/7 from the FT line. That scares me, too.

    By comparison, Rose is 7/14 from the field, 2/5 on 3's, and 10/14 from the line.

    Like TB#1 said, somewhat conflicted.
     
  6. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Boozer wasn't 25 when we got him.

    The rest are such tiny sample sizes, I wouldn't put any weight behind them.

    Jimmy was great in the playoffs when Deng was hurt. Not so great once he became full time starter.

    Rose had the ball in his hands 90% of the time, or any time he wanted it.

    Kevin Martin's USG% was close to Love's, and they had Rubio handling the ball enough to manage 8.6 assists.
     
  7. Bullsville

    Bullsville Intelligent Bulls Fan

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    No, Boozer was 29. But he went from 19.5 pts, 11.2 reb on .562 FG his last season in Utah to 17.5 pts, 9.6 reb and .510 FG his first year here. Love has been playing with a PG who refuses to shoot, put him with Rose on a team where he isn't the first option, and his numbers are going to take a dip, too. Just like Boozer's did.

    The "tiny sample sizes" cover four years, I can't get much more of a bigger sample size. There aren't a lot of games that are within 3 points in the last 10 seconds, but that's the most important times of a game. And Love has a history of not coming through.

    Jimmy was just as good when last season started, his numbers were almost identical to the end of the 2013 season. Then he got hurt. We'll see what happens this season, I'm very confident he'll be back to his normal self as long as he's healthy.

    As for Taj, his numbers as a starter were almost identical to his numbers for the 28.7 minutes per game he played all season:

    Per 36 season: 16.4 pts, 8.5 reb, 1.7 blk
    Per 36 starter: 16.4 pts, 8.4 reb, 1.5 blk

    Not that it really means anything, my only point was that Taj is a pretty good player we'd be giving up for Love, in addition to McDoug (and Mirotic).

    You'll have to explain to me what that last sentence means, I have no idea what it has to do with Love's failures in the clutch?

    I know that if it's the last minute of a game, and Derrick gets doubled, I'd rather have McDoug taking the open 3 than Love. And I'd much rather have Taj playing defense on the other end than Love.

    Yes, Love is a very talented player, and it would be very hard to not trade for him. But it's not a no-brainer. And I"m not so sure that a team of Rose - Butler - Dunleavy - Love - Noah with Gasol is better than Rose - Butler - McDoug - Gasol - Noah with Gasol and Mirotic.
     
  8. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Boozer was brilliant on the pick and roll in Utah with DWill. In Chicago, they didn't run pick and roll. Just pick WAY WAY WAY out of Boozer's shooting range to get Rose free of his man. And I don't think Rose was ever good at finding guys on the roll part of the pick and roll.

    Your sample sizes are maybe the best you can do, but they still aren't convincing because the sample size is small.

    Taj has started 102 games for us. The year he started 70, he scored 9 points and averaged 7.5 rebounds. I think those are realistic for him to match or beat by a little bit. This season, he won't be on a team lacking shooting and scoring at other positions. And as a full-time starter, he'll be facing every team's full-time starters (generally). He was still a 16 PER player (slightly above average) while playing the bulk of his minutes against 2nd units. Let's not get carried away.

    In the playoffs, Taj did a real nice job playing against Gooden and Booker, and Booker did pretty well against him.

    I like McBuckets. I like Mirotic. Hanging on to them instead of going after Love is kicking the championship can down the road, in terms of them being the full-time contributors we expect. Here and now, Love makes us favorites or 2nd favorite to win the championship. At some point, you have to go for it if you're this close.
     
  9. Bullsville

    Bullsville Intelligent Bulls Fan

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    When Gibson started 70 games, he was a rookie. Those numbers are pretty irrelevant now. Love averaged 11 points and 9 rebounds as a rookie.

    But your Boozer point just backs up what I am trying to say, Love's numbers are going to take a dive when Rose is the main man instead of him. And Boozer cost us nothing, Love will cost us three players who are all pretty good.

    If Love were such a difference maker, his team might have made the playoffs at least once in his career, I would guess.

    I'm all for going for it, I'm just not convinced that Love is the huge difference-maker that he's made out to be.
     
  10. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    He hasn't had very good coaching or great teammates. Certainly nobody of Rose's caliber or Noah's or even Boozer's.

    Minny does play in the West, which we all know is a much tougher schedule.

    [​IMG]

    He only played 18 games, they won 31. He plays a whole season, they win 40. That indicates he adds most of +9 to his team's record. Not shabby.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. TomBoerwinkle#1

    TomBoerwinkle#1 Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    This is why I am conflicted. Bird in hand/two in bush...

    But in hand are some unknowns. The bush holds a proven stat sheet filler who hasn't made his team better.

    Riddle mystery enigma.
     
  12. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Michael Jordan averaged 37 points per game with 5 rebounds and 5 assists.

    The team won 40 games with the guy a proven stat sheet filler.

    Add Pippen and Ho Grant and less Hinri^H^H^H^H^HPaxson and they win 50. On their way to a 3-peat.

    I'm not sure the "doesn't make his team better" flies.
     
  13. TomBoerwinkle#1

    TomBoerwinkle#1 Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Filling a stat sheet is a good thing. Not winning despite stats is a bad thing.

    Love is a very good/great player.

    He is not, however, Michael Jordon or Scottie Pippen so I'm not sure where that is going.

    Love would be surrounded by far superior talent here. No doubt.

    We are already at or near the 50 win level even without our MVP superstar.
     
  14. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    The point is even Jordan was "Not winning despite stats."

    Only when he was surrounded by really good players did he win.

    Just maybe that's true for Love.

    Love's only 25, too. Jordan won his first ring at 27.

    Meanwhile, Minny's record has gone from 17-65 to 26-40 to 31-51 (he played just 18 games) to 40-42 since he became starter there. Improved by 23 wins (17 to 40).
     

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