Bulls lineup

Discussion in 'Chicago Bulls' started by transplant, Aug 15, 2014.

  1. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    We all know that there's little unanimity on this board. I'm going to see if we can build a basic framework of agreement starting with the primary positions of the players the Bulls currently have under contract for this season.

    I realize that nearly every Bulls player can defend more than one position. I also realize that some here believe that Thibodeau will play a player out of that player's natural position (e.g., some believe that Butler is a more natural SF). What follows is my guess as to each player's primary position.

    PG: Rose>Hinrich>Brooks
    SG: Butler>Snell
    SF: Dunleavy>McDermott
    PF: Gasol>Gibson>Mirotic>Bairstow
    C: Noah

    Are we good with this?
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2014
  2. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    PG Rose, Brooks
    SG Butler, Snell, Hinrich
    SF McDermott, Dunleavy
    PF Gasol, Gibson, Mirotic
    C Noah, Gasol
     
  3. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Brooks as the primary backup at PG is wishful thinking on your part IMO, but I understand that you're a stubborn man.

    I hope you're right that McDermott plays well enough to get the SF start. I want Dunleavy coming off the bench.

    I think Gibson and Mirotic will play together a lot. Whether it's enough to make Gibson the primary C backup remains to be seen.
     
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    For the first time in years, we have offense. We don't need to dribble out the clock to keep the opposition from playing offense.

    If Snell is an 8 PER player still, we've got insurance.

    Or do you want my analysis to agree with yours no matter what?

    Gasol is a C, but paired with Noah, Thibs can mix and match on defense.

    If Gasol misses games, somebody has to play some C or the Bulls go small.

    Taj with the 2nd unit may have to be the rim protector and offensive rebound specialist.
     
  5. such sweet thunder

    such sweet thunder Member Staff Member Moderator

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    It seems like the lineup you proposed probably ruffles the least feathers, which is good reason in and of itself to make that the starting lineup. I'd like to believe that Thibs would start with trying to put the players at their natural positions. I'd like to see something like this:

    Noah - Gasol
    Taj - Mirotic
    Dougie - Dunleavy
    Butler - Snell
    Rose - Hinrich
     
  6. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I wasn't worried about feathers, ruffled or otherwise. I was more going for "conventional wisdom."

    As I've said before, it would be great if Thibodeau concludes that McDermott is his best SF. This would make the Bulls much stronger.
     
  7. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Conventional wisdom is Thibs will start his best offense and finish with his best defense.
     
  8. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    The thought of you agreeing with me no matter what kind of tickled me for a moment, but I got over it.
     
  9. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    You're the "I'll play these guy" and I'm the "if we're not good enough, you have to make moves to get better" guy.

    But we're both "fans!"
     
  10. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Almost right. I'm the "I'll play these" guy when I'm happy with what we have and when I think changing the roster is more likely to make the team worse than better. I haven't played the "IPT" card in several years.
     
  11. rosenthall

    rosenthall Well-Known Member

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    As far as our lineup goes, I think the big axes that have to be settled are Gasol/Taj, McDermott/Dunleavy, and just how much we can expect from Rose in general.

    I think McDermott will start at some point in the season. Maybe not right away, but Dunleavy isn't starter material and he wasn't brought in here to do that. Thibs favors veterans, but Thibs favors winning above all else. Assuming McDermott has the stuff, I think he'll find his way into the starting lineup.

    I'm really not sure how the Noah/Gasol/Taj trifecta is going to play out. I just hope no one gets too pissed off once the dust settles.

    I think the plan with Rose should revolve entirely around "How do we want Derrick feeling and playing in the playoffs?" To this end I think I favor reduced minutes where he's allowed to go all out, and planned time off. Maybe every 5th game or the second half of back-to-backs.
     
  12. such sweet thunder

    such sweet thunder Member Staff Member Moderator

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    The interesting thing to me is that I can't seem to put together a well-balanced lineup without using at least one of the two rookies. Rose-Butler-Noah just doesn't have enough shooting without Buckets, Mirotic or both.

    It seems to have become conventional wisdom that Thibodeau doesn't like to play rookies but I'm not sure there's much evidence of that. He played Snell and Asik. He didn't play Teague, but I'm not sure you can make the argument that Teague deserved minutes. You could make an argument that Butler deserved minutes his rookie season. But that could have just been a byproduct of how Thibs sticks to his rotations. Thibs sets his rotations in training camp and doesn't change them unless an injury forces him to. JLIII and Big Sexy didn't sniff playing time until injuries forced Thib's hands.

    So yeah, I'm not convinced Gibson and Noah will start. But I don't have strong feelings about Noah-Pau lineup either.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
  13. rosenthall

    rosenthall Well-Known Member

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    Agree completely. I treat the shooting of Rose, Kirk, and Jimmy as fixed quantities and it just doesn't give you enough.

    K4E has mentioned it before and I think he's spot on that McDermott being a difference maker this year is one of those things where the balls need to bounce our way if we want to be legit contenders.

    The need for shooting is what prompted me to comment in this thread about the benefits of starting Mirotic until Transplant made the remarks:

    After some thought I've decided he was right.

    Mirotic in the starting lineup solves some problems, but pairing Gasol and Noah creates some unique mismatches of its own.

    Which is why I think McDermott will start at some point this season. IMO Thibs has shown no irrational aversion to playing rookies. He played Asik without hesitation when he was here. Snell got more time than he deserved. Teague was an abomination...the sort of guy that could almost guarantee you a loss if he's out there for 10 minutes or more.

    Jimmy didn't play very much his rookie year, but we were the #1 team during the season with the #1 defense and #5 offense and he was the 30th pick. Very few rookies get playing time in those circumstances and I don't think it reflects on some sort of innate preference Thibs has for playing rookies or not.

    Dunleavy is a 34 year old role player, not some king-of-the-hill. He was signed with the intention of coming off the bench.

    Thibs has never broken a starting lineup in the middle of the season, but I think that's one of those things that's going to be true until it's not.
     
  14. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    When we had Lu, the Rose/Noah/Jimmy/Lu lineup almost no 3pt shooting from those four positions. The two primary 3pt positions should be Jimmy's and Lu's, and ideally Rose too.

    Thibs has sounded like a broken record until the draft and other moves. "We need shooting." Dunleavy is a shooter. I'm not sure he means "shooting" as much as "scoring."

    This team has only two scorers on it. Rose and McDermott. Considering how much we gave up for him, how he's played 4 years of college ball, is ready to contribute now even if it is shooting, it makes no sense to start anyone else.

    If his game translates 80% to the NBA, he's going to be one of the better SFs in the league. Why not give it a chance?

    OK, Pau has been a pretty good scorer in his own right, but you have to get him the ball a lot.
     
  15. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Yeah, it seems kind of weird, but despite the fact that McDermott has yet to so much as play a minute in a NBA exhibition game and was only the 11th overall pick, it'll be a surprise to me if he isn't the starter when the regular season opens.
     
  16. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    The way Gar and Thibs talked about him, McBuckets is their guy. They watched him for 4 years. They wanted him come hell or high water in the draft. They must think he's ready to contribute right now.

    Maybe he's another unicorn type. Can't find out unless they play him.
     
  17. such sweet thunder

    such sweet thunder Member Staff Member Moderator

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    So wait: Do we all actually somehow agree that the conventional wisdom is wrong and it's most likely going to be McBuckets starting at small forward?

    I agree with all of you that the vibe out of the Berto center has been different for McBUckets than I've experienced with any rookie I can remember, both from Rose and Thibodeau. It feels like they're building him up in preparation of him taking the roster spot.
     
  18. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

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    IMO, it's a double vibe thing. There's the very positive McDermott vibe, but there's also a "we got Dunleavy to come off the bench" vibe too.

    Then again, it's only a vibe...could just be another text message.
     
  19. kukoc4ever

    kukoc4ever Let's win a ring! Staff Member Moderator

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    The important thing is to get Dougie meaningful playing time and development minutes so he's as ready for the playoffs as possible.

    Many here are better at extrapolating out college play into NBA play. McDermott could just end up being a role player or not even a NBA player. That happens all the time with the #11 pick.

    Mirotic is gong to need minutes as well. Once again, its unclear what he'll be in the NBA. He has three vets ahead of him that are all good.

    Ideally, the down the stretch lineup in the playoffs would be Rose - Butler - McDermott - (Gibson/Gasol - off - def) - Noah. Maybe Mirotic surprises.

    The most likely scenario is that McDermott isn't a star this year and Gibson is the best out of the the Gasol - Mirotic - Gibson trio, but I'm not at all confident that is how it will play out.
     
  20. truebluefan

    truebluefan Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    You are right. I can't see Thibs not playing him. He was on the Team USA Select, and yes, Bulls have scouted him for years and did not hesitate to trade two good players for him. He will play and maybe even start.
     

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