Kirk Hinrich is going to play shooting guard, W T F.

Discussion in 'Chicago Bulls' started by Denny Crane, Oct 10, 2014.

  1. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,957
    Likes Received:
    10,620
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-b...inrich-is-going-to-play-shooting-guard-w-t-f/

    By Doug Thonus

    ...

    So you know what that means....

    Yes, Kirk Hinrich's primary role for this team will be to play SG.

    Keith Bogans 2.0 here we come.

    Look, I've got nothing against Hinrich as a player. I, like most fans, enjoyed greatly the revival of the team he helped to bring when the Bulls drafted him. He's a tough minded, gritty guy, who tries had and leaves it all on the floor.

    He's a smart player who doesn't make lots of mistakes, can run an offense, find guys in their spots, and you know does some quality things you'd like out of your back up point guard.

    However, he can't shoot. He can't score. He can't release pressure on the rest of the team as an offensive threat. He can't fulfill the responsibilities this team needs out of it's shooting guard.

    ...

    No one is trying to run 100 miles an hour to make sure they close out on Kirk at the three point line. There's no need for that. That's a slow jog on the close out while you yell "shoot it" at him as he catches the ball to taunt him into a shot you know won't go in anyway.

    And this is where the Kirk Hinrich signing sucks.

    If we left Kirk as a back up PG and played him 12-18 minutes a game to relieve Derrick Rose things would be all fine and dandy. We could make use of his skills in running the offense, finding guys, and all that jazz, however, I don't know what anyone sees on film that makes them think Hinrich at the two is an answer for anything.

    It makes your defense smaller and doesn't really do much for your offense either.
     
  2. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,957
    Likes Received:
    10,620
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    http://www.basketballinsiders.com/chat/chat-with-nate-duncan-10714/

    Dan
    What are your thoughts on Chicago’s guard rotation? After a successful summer league, I was expecting to see more Snell, but last night it looked like Hinrich and Brooks are going to be the first two guards off the bench. I don’t love Hinrich as an offensive option, given how little attention he demands from the defense. And I don’t love the gunner side of Brooks, which was valuable when Nate or Watson or whoever was bringing it to a lackluster 2nd unit, but now means taking the ball out of the hands of great shooters like Doug and Mirotic. Is there an obvious rotation there? Any chance they upgrade the position? Has Thibs abandoned Snell? Thanks.

    Nate Duncan
    I was a little dismayed myself watching last night, although it’s only one game. Hinrich is just a complete zero offensively at this point, and giving him the two-year Room Exception was a major lost opportunity. All he can do at this point is make absolutely wide open threes, and even those he is reluctant to take if there is even the slightest closeout. The Wizards had so little respect for his offense that the Bulls had trouble running floppy sets because his man was laying off into the passing lanes so far. And playing him at the two really kills the offense as well. He still plays solid defense though–it was clear John Wall had little interest in dealing with his ball denials in a preseason game.

    Brooks doesn’t bring much vision other than shooting threes off the dribble, at least if last night is any indication. He missed wide open Mirotic and McDermott many times coming off the screen-roll.

    I would like to see Snell get a look and see if he can at least make some open threes and play passable D. But he obviously hasn’t been impressing in practices, so it may be too optimistic.

    I guess if you really look at the point guards available in the offseason, you can argue that Augustin and Jameer Nelson were really the only players available who would have been a clear upgrade on Hinrich, and Thibs loves him for his defense and ostensible ability to shift to the two (although he can’t score there at all). Nelson probably wouldn’t have come because he has a clear chance to start in Dallas, and Augustin the organization decided wasn’t as good as Hinrich.

    Maybe an overseas option should have been considered. Bo McCalebb might be slowing down, but it would have been nice to give him a shot because I fear backup PG could be a real sore spot for the Bulls all season.
     
  3. bulls_with_booz

    bulls_with_booz We're Selfish

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Messages:
    1,343
    Likes Received:
    503
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not enough scoring between Kirk and Dunleavy to sustain an offense that can win in the playoffs. Also, Kirk and starter minutes? No, he's way too old. If this is the case (I skimmed through) I hopefor the team sake he performs badly and gets benched. Thibs rides his vets. Kirk will never fall out of the rotation.
     
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,957
    Likes Received:
    10,620
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    The gist is that Kirk is going to be the backup SG, but SG for the most part.

    Whatever minutes he plays there with the 2nd team, he makes us shorter (he's short to play SG) and he is horrible at the S part of SG (shooting).
     
  5. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2011
    Messages:
    4,111
    Likes Received:
    210
    Trophy Points:
    63
    An article like this makes me wonder what my ol' pal TB#1 thinks of Thonus.
     
  6. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,957
    Likes Received:
    10,620
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...-kc-johnson-bulls-mailbag-20141009-story.html

    By KC Johnson

    This team is very deep. So deep that they could and should use a 10-man rotation. We all expect the starters to be Rose, (Jimmy) Butler, Dunleavy, Gasol and Noah. But who do you think should come off the bench and do you think a 10-man rotation is ideal? -- Telvin, Maywood

    Obviously, it doesn’t matter what I think but what Thibodeau thinks. And he already has talked about how using a 10-man rotation is difficult. It certainly sounds like his ideal rotation is nine.

    The starters you mention are five. Gibson, Hinrich and Aaron Brooks are locks to come off the bench. So you’re looking at a battle between Mirotic, McDermott and Tony Snell for the last spot. My guess is McDermott will initially see the most court time, though it’s obviously based on performance. Mirotic is hurt a bit by Gasol, Noah and Gibson gobbling up the frontcourt minutes and small forward being a tough matchup for him defensively. The Bulls are just thinner at wing, which is why I guess McDermott will see more playing time.

    Thibodeau almost always changes the subject when asked about Snell, though Snell did close well in the second preseason game against the Pistons. You also have to almost assume injuries, so the rotation likely will change.

    When the Bulls had a deep team in 2010-11 and 2011-12, Thibodeau usually used a nine-man rotation and sporadically a 10-man rotation. But remember that someone like Kurt Thomas, who didn’t play much early, came up huge when Noah got injured. As Thibodeau likes to say, you need everybody.
     
  7. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2011
    Messages:
    4,111
    Likes Received:
    210
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I think Thonus is missing something that I view as kind of obvious. While I expect Hinrich to defend the SG position for a lot of his time on the court, I expect him to play PG on offense most of the time he's out there. Hinrich has done this when paired with Rose in the past and he's also done it with Nate Robinson and Augustin. When Hinrich is out there with Brooks, don't be surprised if it's Hinrich running the offense.
     
  8. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,957
    Likes Received:
    10,620
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    Thonus, Nate Duncan, KC Johnson. A pox on all their houses!
     
  9. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,957
    Likes Received:
    10,620
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    Here's the deal as I see it.

    Jimmy will play 42, leaving 6 for Kurt.

    Rose will play 30. Who plays the other 18?

    Consider a Kurt and Jimmy back court. Yikes! That's terrible, no shooting or scoring, teams can double or shade TWO of our other three on the court.

    Seems like Brooks and Jimmy for 18 is better.

    Thonus' reasoning is sound.
     
  10. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2011
    Messages:
    4,111
    Likes Received:
    210
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Did KC say Hinrich sucks too?
     
  11. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,957
    Likes Received:
    10,620
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    KC doesn't seem to offer opinions.
     
  12. such sweet thunder

    such sweet thunder Member Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,509
    Likes Received:
    78
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I feel like we have a couple of threads addressing these topics on rotation.

    --First off, KC is almost certainly wrong in his assertion that Thibodeau is going to play a 9 man rotation. I don't care what Thibs says or why he's saying it. Thibodeau has used at least a ten man rotation in every game he's ever coached in the NBA. He trotted out the corpse of Nazr Mohammed for the last two seasons. There's going to be four bigs, and there's a decent chance that all four of them get substantial minutes. Which leads into my second point . . .

    -- I don't think Gibson is going to be traded. I look at this roster as Gar/Pax giving the middle finger to Thibodeau in some respects. I see their scheme as something along the lines of: "Oh really, you're going to play your starters 45 minutes a game until they die? Well, we're going to give you so much depth you have to keep your starters minutes in check." And if you want to go someplace dark how's about this: What are the chances Thibodeau's talk of a nine man rotation is just him being obstinate because he thinks he's getting jammed into minutes limitations? It's greater than zero . . . which leads into my third point.

    -- I think there's a decent chance that this is Thibodeau's last chance at coaching the Bulls. If he plays his core extended minutes and one of them is injured comes playoff time I think that's going to be the final straw.

    -- As to KH being the backup point guard, I can't make myself give a damn. Actually that's not true, I kind of like the move. I recognize that KH is terrible. But tops on my list for success this season -- even above shooting and a revitalized offense -- is a healthy Derrick Rose. Thibodeau could use Hinirch in lineups alongside Rose to lessen Rose's point obligations. I wouldn't be shocked if this is even a long term aspiration from management; to find a way to lessen the amount of contact Rose takes in any given game.
     
  13. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2011
    Messages:
    4,111
    Likes Received:
    210
    Trophy Points:
    63
    OK, then no pox on his house.
     
  14. rosenthall

    rosenthall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,581
    Likes Received:
    93
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I think this offseason was an attempt to allay Thibs, not piss him off.

    Thibs doesn't have a problem going deep into his bench. He has a problem playing guys who suck. Nazr played in 80 games last year! I think it's easiest for Thibs to do what he does as a coach with a roster that goes 10 deep. It allows him to implement his own style without huge amounts of callateral damage.

    I imagine the deal with Thibs and the front office was basically this:

    GarPax: Jesus Tom, you're going to destroy everyone on our roster. Can you relax?

    Thibs: I'm here to win games. Who else on this roster would you have me play? How many games can we win with Erik fucking Murphy getting big minutes?

    GarPax: Okay, so if we got you some more bodies would you ease the load on our guys a bit? Please?

    Thibs: They have to be nba material. Give me guys who can actually play and I'll do what I can.

    And as for Kirk, I'd be shocked if his ability to ease the load on Derrick wasn't a huge reason for re-signing him. Kirk's major contribution to a team is that he makes it a lot easier to play lineups that cater to other players' strengths without creating gaping holes. Not because of his PER.
     
  15. transplant

    transplant Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2011
    Messages:
    4,111
    Likes Received:
    210
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Excellent post (as usual), rosenthall.
     
  16. TomBoerwinkle#1

    TomBoerwinkle#1 Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    Messages:
    1,953
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    38
    **rolls eyes**
     
  17. TomBoerwinkle#1

    TomBoerwinkle#1 Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    Messages:
    1,953
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Rosenthall +1
     
  18. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,957
    Likes Received:
    10,620
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    Thibs: we need more shooting

    Gar: we signed Mike Dunleavy Jr.

    (But we're going to dump Lu for financial reasons).
     
  19. truebluefan

    truebluefan Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2010
    Messages:
    212,768
    Likes Received:
    821
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nice post rosenthall
     

Share This Page