12 Year Old Boy with fake gun dies after shot by Ohio officer

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by BigGameDamian, Nov 23, 2014.

  1. BigGameDamian

    BigGameDamian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2012
    Messages:
    29,597
    Likes Received:
    11,352
    Trophy Points:
    113
    http://news.yahoo.com/boy-fake-gun-dies-shot-ohio-officer-170034176.html

    A 12-year-old boy brandishing what turned out to be a replica gun died Sunday after he was shot by a Cleveland police officer responding to a 911 call about a person waving a gun in a park.

    Deputy Chief Ed Tomba said the officer fired twice after the boy pulled the fake weapon — which was lacking the orange safety indicator usually on the muzzle — from his waistband.

    The boy did not make any verbal threats toward the officer or point the gun, but reached into his waistband and grabbed it after being told to raise his hands, Tomba said.

    "That's when the officer fired," he said.

    Police said the weapon was an "airsoft" type replica gun that resembled a semi-automatic pistol. The orange safety indicator had been removed, police said.

    A man who called 911 told dispatchers before police arrived that the boy was on a swing set and pointing a pistol that was "probably fake" and scaring everyone.

    The caller said the boy was pulling the gun in and out of his pants. "I don't know if it's real or not," the caller said.

    Jeff Follmer, president of the Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association, said the officers were not told the caller thought the gun might be fake.

    The officer called to the park saw the pistol sitting on a table, and watched the boy grab it and put it in his waistband, Follmer said.

    The hospital where the boy died and an attorney for his family would not release his name on Sunday.

    Attorney Timothy Kucharski said the boy went to the park with friends Saturday afternoon, but he did not know the details of what led to the shooting. "I don't want to make a rush to judgment," he said.

    He said he wants to talk to witnesses and get more facts. "We're ultimately going to find out what happened," Kucharski said.
     
  2. BigGameDamian

    BigGameDamian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2012
    Messages:
    29,597
    Likes Received:
    11,352
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hate to bring this up but the cop was white and the boy that was shot is black.
     
  3. speeds

    speeds $2.50 highball, $1.50 beer Staff Member Administrator GFX Team

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Messages:
    39,328
    Likes Received:
    3,310
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Calgary, AB
    Reginald VelJohnson's character in Die Hard made a similar mistake. The gun looked real. It haunted him. He eventually redeemed himself by shooting Sasha Godunov.
     
  4. julius

    julius Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    42,404
    Likes Received:
    30,000
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    singer songwriter
    Location:
    Washington
    So what we need to do for this cop is have some German terrorists...

    On a serious note, it's sad that this kid was shot and died. I can't imagine what that does to someones mental makeup, especially to someone so young.
     
  5. blue32

    blue32 Who wants a mustache ride?

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    8,613
    Likes Received:
    2,102
    Trophy Points:
    113
    First, I can understand why they didn't get the 'fake' report in the call. It probably went out of dispatch as a suspect in park w/gun (description of suspect) and that's about it.
    Second, if indeed the kid pulled the gun out while the cop asked for his hands to be in the air, then I can understand why he shot.

    It's a tough situation to be in, because if he hadn't shot and say the gun was real and the kid took it out in a split second the kid could have fired towards the officers or anyone else in the park. Now lets say that some cop then got hit, or an innocent bystander got shot, then whose fault is it for not shooting the kid?

    The police officer was fucked either way in this situation.

    And honestly the real criminal here is the kids parent(s). Airsoft gun w/no orange marker is fine, if you're in the privacy of your own home, but allowing them to take that shit to a park? Idiot.
     
  6. oldmangrouch

    oldmangrouch persona non grata

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Messages:
    12,402
    Likes Received:
    6,323
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Scared cop = dead child.

    What the hell is wrong with the way they train law-enforcement? This kind of thing never used to happen.
     
  7. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Messages:
    28,007
    Likes Received:
    5,012
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    retired Yankee
    Location:
    Beautiful Central Oregon
    Kid made no threatening move according to the report. Just had a toy gun as is his right. Age isn't the issue here. Neither is race. Neither is the fact it's a toy. There was no reported reason to shoot anyone.
     
  8. EL PRESIDENTE

    EL PRESIDENTE Username Retired in Honor of Lanny.

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    50,346
    Likes Received:
    22,528
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The gun likely was this, but the Orange part that alerts officers that it's a fake gun was removed.

    [​IMG]

    It's basic fucking knowledge you don't remove that shit and wave it out in public. Has been since I was a kid.
     
  9. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Messages:
    28,007
    Likes Received:
    5,012
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    retired Yankee
    Location:
    Beautiful Central Oregon
    By what authority? :dunno:
     
  10. EL PRESIDENTE

    EL PRESIDENTE Username Retired in Honor of Lanny.

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    50,346
    Likes Received:
    22,528
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Common sense and making sure you don't get shot.
     
  11. blue32

    blue32 Who wants a mustache ride?

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    8,613
    Likes Received:
    2,102
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Why are you curious about that? That's pretty fucking straight forward. The answer is "no".

    The question you should be curious about is this:

    What does a police officer do when there is a person that is told to hold up their arms and freeze, but instead reaches into their waistband and grabs the gun.
     
  12. blue32

    blue32 Who wants a mustache ride?

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    8,613
    Likes Received:
    2,102
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Minor threat? Scared Cop?

    Dude come on. The orange tip was removed, the person was 12 years old and we don't know how large the person was. Maybe the person was as big as the officer, who knows, kids grow fast now-a-days. The report was he was waving around a gun at a park (not a minor threat).

    Scared or not, the dude reached for the gun when they were told to put up their hands. The failure here is on the parents and kid, not the police.

    Had that person reached for their gun, fired off a shot and it hit a bystander, you'd be singing a different tune.

    Edit: Funny how people in other places say they should have tried to tase the suspect. Ya right, LOL. Those things have such a spread at range there is no way you're making good contact. Aside from the fact that police are always trained to use one level of force higher than the suspect. So a taser was out of the question.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2014
  13. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Messages:
    28,007
    Likes Received:
    5,012
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    retired Yankee
    Location:
    Beautiful Central Oregon
    I open carry a real gun (with no orange plug), and achieve the same result.

    Dozens of LEO's have seen me shopping at BiMart or checking out audio books at the library, with a pistol on my belt, and never felt the need to even comment on it let alone shoot me. BECAUSE THEY SUPPORT THE SECOND AMENDMENT AND EVERYONE'S RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS.
     
  14. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Messages:
    28,007
    Likes Received:
    5,012
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    retired Yankee
    Location:
    Beautiful Central Oregon
    Apologize for unnecessarily frightening them?
     
  15. MARIS61

    MARIS61 Real American

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Messages:
    28,007
    Likes Received:
    5,012
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    retired Yankee
    Location:
    Beautiful Central Oregon
    Right about that. Not a minor threat, NO THREAT AT ALL. Look the word up.

    The police have no right to give orders to law abiding citizens, regardless of their age. Law abiding citizens have no duty to obey arbitrary orders from policemen.

    Uh, what part of "air-soft" don't you understand?

    I'd be singing a different tune if he dialed his cell phone setting off explosives and blowing up the Statue of Liberty.

    But he didn't.

    A taser is quite a few levels of force higher than an air-soft toy gun.
     
  16. blue32

    blue32 Who wants a mustache ride?

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    8,613
    Likes Received:
    2,102
    Trophy Points:
    113


    This is real funny actually because lets go ahead and put your kids (if you have/had any) in a situation where someone of unknown age to you (or the police) is waving around an airsoft gun that are meant to look like EXACT replicas of real guns, and pointing it at persons.

    Now you go ahead and tell me that this suspect is not a threat. You're full of shit. The person was pointing it at people! Hell, what is the difference between doing it at a park and at a mall? He'd probably have gotten killed by a CHL member in the mall though! And you'd probably praise that!

    Anyway, Air-Soft or not, the gun had its ORANGE marker removed. The thing looks exactly like a real gun, have you not seen one before? I have.

    Look up levels of force and police procedure, and also look up how effective a taser is at range. Then you also tell me if you're going to bring a taser to a possible gun fight. Again you'd be full of shit.

    Kids/people of all ages shoot other people. Hello school shootings. The cops in this situation were in the right.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2014
  17. blue32

    blue32 Who wants a mustache ride?

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    8,613
    Likes Received:
    2,102
    Trophy Points:
    113


    Yes the boys parents are the real criminals due to lack of parenting and supervision. Buying and allowing your kid to play with an airsoft gun IS no crime, but not instilling the proper values/morales/judgement/respect for these 'toys' IS a crime. You're completely setting up your kid for failure when you allow them to view replica toy guns as real.

    Toy or not, replica guns deserve the same respect as real guns, especially when they've had the orange tip removed. How does anyone tell a real gun from a replica airsoft gun w/no orange tip from distance? Until you actually hold it, you'd never know.


    So your solution is to leave the kid alone, and continue to let the kid point and wave an unknown 'gun' around at people in the park? Ya perfect solution there bud! Now, lets say that gun was real and he accidentally fires it, and it hits someone? Now who are you going to bitch at? Oh, that's right you'll probably blame it on the cops for not handling the situation.

    How you can think this is not "much of a situation" is beyond me. But please, don't stop living in candy land, you'll be the next victim most likely.

    Juvenile or not does not give a free pass when there are unknown 'gun(s)' involved. The police didn't know if this person was unstable, if it was 100% a real gun or not, or how old the person was. The person also did not comply with commands from the officer.

    Case fucking closed, or if you don't believe me try doing it yourself.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2014
  18. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2009
    Messages:
    30,059
    Likes Received:
    8,157
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    retired, while you work!
    If a civilian kills someone, the cowardly police excuse about "being in fear" counts for nothing. In a police state, police are above the very laws that they enforce upon us.

    170 cities have demonstrated against the Ferguson ruling in the last couple of days. Who in the crappy legal system chooses the secret grand juries? The police?

    It's like asking, who counts the votes after an election?
     
  19. blue32

    blue32 Who wants a mustache ride?

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    8,613
    Likes Received:
    2,102
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think people are discounting what the typical police officer faces on a day to day basis. I wonder if people understand how often they deal with mentally unstable people that carry weapons on them.

    How is it above the law to use force, when a suspect breaking a law doesn't then follow a police officers instructions and reaches for an unknown weapon?

    And the majority of those people in the 170 cities probably have no idea about what evidence was displayed to the grand jury. Hell, quite a few of these 'protesters' just want to start shit and 'burn the mother fucker down'.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2014
  20. oldmangrouch

    oldmangrouch persona non grata

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Messages:
    12,402
    Likes Received:
    6,323
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And here is where the entire argument collapses. A kid playing with a toy gun is not breaking any law! An armed person breaking the law and an unarmed person who is not breaking the law are not the same thing.
     

Share This Page