A look into the first round of the '07 Playoffs...

Discussion in 'NBA General' started by His Greatness, Jun 7, 2007.

  1. His Greatness

    His Greatness BBW Member

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    Re: A look into the first round of the '07 Playoffs...

    The defending champions of '06 got swept in the first round of the playoffs against the Chicago Bulls...what happened prior to the series: -Dwyane Wade got injured agaisnt the Houston Rockets on the 21st of February-Shaquille O'Neal would take command of the team-The Miami Heat signed Eddie Jones to substitute for an injured Dwyane Wade-The Shaq, Eddie Jones, squad would blowout the Chicago Bulls 2 weeks after losing Dwyane Wade (http://www.nba.com/games/20070307/CHIMIA/boxscore.html).Ok, this team with Shaquille O'Neal at the helm and Eddie Jones would go on a 17-8 stint without Dwyane Wade, anchoring the Heat into the 5th seed, from a 26-27 record (that would've been good for 7th seed at the time), finishing with a 44-38 record. Now, the defending champs came into the playoffs against the Chicago Bulls when ONE major decision was made: a not fully-rehabilitated Dwyane Wade would take the place of Eddie Jones, would dominate the ball, and possibly decide an abrupt exit or actually make the series look respectable. The result? The Heat got swept....Dwyane Wade's averages: 23.5 PPG, 6.3 APG, 4.8 RPG, 5.7 TOPG, on 42%. Now, this thread wasn't made to help decide a recent ceaseless debate between Nitro and I, a neverending task filled with unsolvable hypotheticals which I'd rather not waste my time in, but I'd like to get some other opinions since I'm done with that and I think its interesting.Yay or Nay? Did Dwyane Wade coming back corrode a team's, that was almost in tip-top shape, chances in the playoffs?
     
  2. Let Em Hear This

    Let Em Hear This BBW Member

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    Re: A look into the first round of the '07 Playoffs...

    Yeah, when I watched the games, the Heat definitely looked a bit discombobulated. I think it would have been better if Wade at least did not play the first to games of the series. He wasn't 100% and they still relied on him too much. They should have stuck to a team philosophy where everyone should contribute. Wade got way too many touches for someone that was injured.
     
  3. Nitro1118

    Nitro1118 BBW Elite Member

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    Re: A look into the first round of the '07 Playoffs...

    As I said in the other thread, the Miami Heat knew they had no chance without Wade which is why they took the risk of bringing him back to play in the series. There is NO WAY the Heat would have beaten Chicago without Wade. You can bring up the one game the Heat beat the Bulls without Wade, but no way are you seeing Eddie Jones go 8-11 from 3, Luol Deng go 3-14, etc... Historically, whether it be with heat or Lakers, when a Shaq teams plays a Ben team the Shaq team loses almost all the time unless the supporting star has a huge game. Without Wade, they would have no offense when Shaq got into foul trouble or was on bench resting. Without Wade, they would have no one to go to in the clutch (despite being injured, Wade did come up clutch in game 1 & 3 to keep Heat within striking distance).Bottom line is either way I think the Heat would have been swept. The Bulls were just a better offensive team, better defensive team, much faster, more athletic, etc...This is gonna be my only post in this thread as we have had this discussion enough, but to call Wade the reason they lost is ridiculous.
     
  4. Let Em Hear This

    Let Em Hear This BBW Member

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    Re: A look into the first round of the '07 Playoffs...

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jun 7 2007, 05:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>As I said in the other thread, the Miami Heat knew they had no chance without Wade which is why they took the risk of bringing him back to play in the series. There is NO WAY the Heat would have beaten Chicago without Wade. You can bring up the one game the Heat beat the Bulls without Wade, but no way are you seeing Eddie Jones go 8-11 from 3, Luol Deng go 3-14, etc... Historically, whether it be with heat or Lakers, when a Shaq teams plays a Ben team the Shaq team loses almost all the time unless the supporting star has a huge game. Without Wade, they would have no offense when Shaq got into foul trouble or was on bench resting. Without Wade, they would have no one to go to in the clutch (despite being injured, Wade did come up clutch in game 1 & 3 to keep Heat within striking distance).Bottom line is either way I think the Heat would have been swept. The Bulls were just a better offensive team, better defensive team, much faster, more athletic, etc...This is gonna be my only post in this thread as we have had this discussion enough, but to call Wade the reason they lost is ridiculous.</div>Wade IS the reason they lost. The Heat live and die by Wade. If he plays well, they'll win. If he doesn't, they lose. That's just how superstars are judged.
     
  5. Pronk48

    Pronk48 BBW Member

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    Re: A look into the first round of the '07 Playoffs...

    After he was injured, the Heat when on a great run and were playing great basketball, after he came back, they started to stink it up again and got blown away against the Bulls. I thought Wade playing hurt their chances.
     
  6. Nitro1118

    Nitro1118 BBW Elite Member

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    Re: A look into the first round of the '07 Playoffs...

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Let Em Hear This @ Jun 7 2007, 06:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Wade IS the reason they lost. The Heat live and die by Wade. If he plays well, they'll win. If he doesn't, they lose. That's just how superstars are judged.</div>And you honestly think they would have done any better without him? Without their leading scorer, playmaker, and only go to guy in the clutch? I think not. What he did was far from a meltdown, especially considering he was injured. And that is exactly the reason this debate started, because His Greatness said Wade had a meltdown in the series.And no, Wade isn't the only reason a team win or loses. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>After he was injured, the Heat when on a great run and were playing great basketball, after he came back, they started to stink it up again and got blown away against the Bulls. I thought Wade playing hurt their chances.</div>The Heat were 7-1 heading into the Wade injury. The team is better with Wade, and they knew that without him in the playoffs they had no shot. They took a risk with an unhealthy Wade, and while he did play well and played better than expected, what happenned around Wade was much more crucial (Deng 26PPG on 58% shooting, Gordon going off, Shaq always in foul trouble, young quick team beting out the old slow team). There is no way the Heat would have beaten the Bulls without Wade, especially a Bulls team that had I believe the 3rd best record in the league after all star break. They are a great team, and while the Heat had a nice run, the Bulls are their toughest matchup with or without Wade.Edit: Ok, THIS was my last post :dribble:
     
  7. His Greatness

    His Greatness BBW Member

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    Re: A look into the first round of the '07 Playoffs...

    That's the thing man....the huge flaw I see in your central point is that it relies on ONE player dictating all the results from prior situations, and all that was similar about those teams was that there were two guys named Shaquille O'Neal and Ben Wallace.You can make it look as complex as possible, but I just can't see a team with all the success they had, going 17-8, going and getting swept abruptly as they did after there was one major switch around in the lineup boggling the well running chemistry. Everything doesn't go down the same way every time and a sweep like that is no fluke....but were the "rejuvenated" Bulls team THAT good of a team to take down an "improved" Heat team with Dwyane Wade?If it looks like a duck...-------------------------------------By the way, MELTDOWN is probably the wrong word to use....horrible and caused their team to lose more so matches my thoughts.
     
  8. GArenas

    GArenas Wiz Fo Champz

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    Re: A look into the first round of the '07 Playoffs...

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pronk48 @ Jun 7 2007, 07:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>After he was injured, the Heat when on a great run and were playing great basketball, after he came back, they started to stink it up again and got blown away against the Bulls. I thought Wade playing hurt their chances.</div>You're making a mistake. When Wade got injured the Heat went on a 10 game win streak, however after this win streak they started to play sub-par basketball again which is partially why the Wizards were able to keep up with the Heat for so long until the events which shall not be named. Before the injuries and Wade's return everyone in the South East division was playing sub-par basketball. Hence, none of them winning a single playoff game. Wade was not 100% and couldn't cary the scoring load the same way he could before but it still didn't hurt the Heat. Miami would have gotten swept anyways.
     
  9. His Greatness

    His Greatness BBW Member

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    Re: A look into the first round of the '07 Playoffs...

    Oh...so they went on a 9-game win streak, then all of a sudden that team is garbage? Pft...that team went 17-8 OVERALL, in the latter or not - it was a great team.
     
  10. Nitro1118

    Nitro1118 BBW Elite Member

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    Re: A look into the first round of the '07 Playoffs...

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (His Greatness @ Jun 8 2007, 03:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That's the thing man....the huge flaw I see in your central point is that it relies on ONE player dictating all the results from prior situations, and all that was similar about those teams was that there were two guys named Shaquille O'Neal and Ben Wallace.You can make it look as complex as possible, but I just can't see a team with all the success they had, going 17-8, going and getting swept abruptly as they did after there was one major switch around in the lineup boggling the well running chemistry. Everything doesn't go down the same way every time and a sweep like that is no fluke....but were the "rejuvenated" Bulls team THAT good of a team to take down an "improved" Heat team with Dwyane Wade?If it looks like a duck...-------------------------------------By the way, MELTDOWN is probably the wrong word to use....horrible and caused their team to lose more so matches my thoughts.</div>My whole problem with your arguement is that you say Wade made them lose. The Heat have veteran and championship caliber role players who didn't do their job in the series, including Shaq. The whole reason Wade had to do so much in the series was because the ball stalled when it got to Shaq (mostly because with Shaq single covered, role players couldn't get open) and he kept getting into foul trouble and that killed the offense and its flow. With these problems with Shaq, the offense was 16PPG worse with him on the floor. If you can recall, early in the games Wade blended into background and they kept feeding Shaq. When he got into foul trouble, Wade was FORCED to take over the offense, mind you at around 70% health. He did as much as his health allowed, kept his team close, and even came up clutch in games 1 & 3. You can't ask much more than 24/6/5 from a guy who just came back from his arm being dislocated, knee tendinitis, etc... Whether you think they would have won a game or 2 without Wade is irrelevent (I strongly disagree with it) as the Heat would have lost the series either way. They knew this, and knew bringing back a top 5 player, even not fully healthy, was their only chance of winning the series. They tried to give him a smaller role, but because Shaq was getting in foul trouble, role players couldn't get shots off, and the Bulls were on fire, they needed Wade to have a much larger role than expected. He played well enough to keep them close, but no one was doing what was expected of them on both sides of the floor. Not to mention the team that pushed them to 6 games last year was improved, a year more experienced, and simply outplayed an aging Miami team who 1-12 just wasn't right all season.
     
  11. His Greatness

    His Greatness BBW Member

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    Re: A look into the first round of the '07 Playoffs...

    No use in replying, because there's no way to refute it, just that I think it would not have gone down the same exact way....you can use your argument to help enforce how it'd be better with Wade and how worse it would be without him from the way the series went down, but it wouldn't make really matter, to me or to how it WOULD happen because I just feel differently, and that's all you can say - defending my argument wouldn't even be worth it, it would just go back and forth with the incessant points.Do I think the Heat would've been swept without Wade? Nah....DID I think they would have WITH Wade? Nah, but they did.
     

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