Why is being able to shoot it suddenly a weakness?

Discussion in 'Oklahoma City Thunder' started by Sir Desmond, Dec 31, 2004.

  1. Sir Desmond

    Sir Desmond JBB Stig!

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    Time for a rant.

    The Sonics bashing is starting to come out, not only on this site but everywhere. Despite the fact we've beaten the Spurs and Memphis twice, the Timberwolves, Nuggets and Kings, all teams with excellent big men, the common reason for putting this team down is "Oh, they don't have any big men, they just live and die by the three".

    I'll bet these are the same people who will turn around later and say "Kids really need to learn how to shoot the basketball".

    Now, what is the disadvantage with being able to shoot the three-ball freakishly well? This season has already proven that this team doesn't struggle with opponent's interior players, and can rebound and bang with the best of them. Not by strategy of having a big name 20 point scorer on the low block, simply by outworking the opposition, playing physical defense and rebounding. I doubt any other team in the league can boast having three power forwards who work as hard defensively and scrap like Evans, Fortson and Collison. It's effective, so why knock it?

    If you ask me, there are more advantages than disadvantages to being able to shoot it. If you can put a line-up of four guys able to knock down the three on court, it is going to cause a lot of match-up problems for the opposition. It opens up the key, and if you have a guy like Vlad Radmanovic at power forward, chances are his defender is not going to be able to guard him on the perimeter, especially if he gets hot.

    Of course shooting teams are going to have off nights, but what team doesn't? If Duncan has a bad night inside and the Spurs lose, are people going to come up with "bound to happen, he lives and dies by the two"? Of course not.

    Having a team that can shoot the ball like the Supes can IMO provides more advantages than disadvantages, and using it as a way to criticise the team is really getting old and unsubstantiated. If we falter later in the season then we falter later in the season, but right now we're not and people still look for excuses.

    End of rant.
     
  2. RiverspoonJones

    RiverspoonJones JBB Sonic Death Monkey

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    Yeah, **** 'em...
     
  3. Shard

    Shard Hi2u

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    AMEN BROTHER!

    I mean, the way a team plays is the way they play. If a good rebounding team has a bad night rebounding they dont get hounded like the Sonics do for being able to shoot the three.

    OUR PLAYERS CAN SHOOT FROM OUTSIDE 10 FEET. THEY CAN'T HELP IT.

    Would you make fun of a kid in a wheelchair? No.
    Why diss on the Sonics because they shoot threes...it's not nice. [​IMG]
     
  4. Iron Shiek

    Iron Shiek Maintain and Hold It Down

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    People who knock us don't even bother to watch the games. We're not winning just b/c we have great shooters. We're winning b/c are great shooters are consistently shooting high percentage shots courtesy of screens set by our big men. What's the point of being a good shooter if you can't get your shot off?

    We're playing like a European team. The premium is on ball movement and good shot selection. Our interior defense has been exceptionally good and our guards are also improving defensively. Anyone who has watch more than one game knows that the way we've won this year is no gimmick. If people want to criticize us b/c we shoot the ball well then so be it. Personally I enjoy watching the ball go through the net.
     
  5. Sir Desmond

    Sir Desmond JBB Stig!

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    ^ Exactly!

    People seem to think this team just gets lucky, and once they cool off they'll lose.

    Well here's a fascinating development that could change the way the world operates: If you have guys who can shoot the ball, and you work hard to get them high percentage looks, they'll generally make them! Wow!

    Isn't that right Mr Peabody?

    Quiet you.
     
  6. jbbReal Deal

    jbbReal Deal Active Member

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    So, since the Sonics are just shooting incredibly well...I guess it's safe to say that you guys are Finals-bound. [​IMG] Listen, there's no reason to rant about anything...you guys have a good enough record to say you're a contender...that's nice. But since you asked for it...

    When teams figure out the Sonics, like the Boston Celtics have, then it'll be much harder to win games for Seattle.

    Hey teams, do you want to know how to beat the Sonics? Keep Lewis beyond the arc and force him to shoot long-range jumpers or threes...and if he posts up, avoid the double team. On the other side of the ball, for whoever Ray is defending, attack the basket, but when you bring the ball up, pull it out front, then up. If you go to your side, you'll get it ripped. For everyone else, draw charges on the frontcourt, but take it hard against Fortson and Collison. Hmm...let Jerome James post up if he decides to...he'll miss the shot. When you box out for a rebound against Collison, let him put the elbow higher into your back, and then jump a little later than usual for the board, so you get the over-the-back call. For Ridnour, get more physical...he doesn't like contact, and you'll play mind games with him by making him work for penetrations.

    If things were done the right way, the Sonics would be where they were at last season. Ray shoots 37.5% tonight from the field...6-16 shooting...but Rashard completely dominates the game. It's a two-way street for the Sonics...two scoring threats, two guys who could be All-Stars...but the front court really has no offensive game, and Ridnour isn't your everyday Sam Cassell, either. For the Sonics, take one of their strengths and push the other towards it. Like I said...Ray Allen is a shooter...he'll bust threes all night long if he wanted to. Well, test Rashard's perimeter game. I really don't see why the Sonics are beating the Spurs and not the Celtics, honestly...maybe it's because of the new rules that are affecting Bowen's defense (which I really like, honestly). The Sonics can do whatever they want from the perimeter...but Lewis is the slasher...the threat...that nobody is taking into consideration.

    It's easy, really...but some of the top teams can't even figure it out.
     
  7. Casual

    Casual JBB First Team

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    I get it, it's so easy, professional basketball coaches don't even think to do it.
     
  8. Shard

    Shard Hi2u

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    Easier said than done. I'm sure theres not a coach in the NBA who does not know about the things you listed and I'm sure that they have all tried different strategies to stop the Sonics...but guess what, the Sonics keep winning and beating teams like the Spurs twice.

    You can write a book on how to stop the Sonics but that doesn't mean teams are capable of doing it.
     
  9. RiverspoonJones

    RiverspoonJones JBB Sonic Death Monkey

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Real Deal:</div><div class="quote_post">blah blah blah</div>

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Sir Desmond

    Sir Desmond JBB Stig!

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    Post of the year thus far, Spoonman.
     
  11. jbbReal Deal

    jbbReal Deal Active Member

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    Hey, it's not my fault you guys run simple sets. Point is, it won't happen all year...and if it does, I'll seriously be in shock.

    But, I'm gonna hate to see how terrible the Sonics look in a 7-game series against a playoff-experienced team as well.

    And come on...Haterade bottle? Put that away...you have no idea what that is. [​IMG]
     
  12. Shard

    Shard Hi2u

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Real Deal:</div><div class="quote_post">Hey, it's not my fault you guys run simple sets. Point is, it won't happen all year...and if it does, I'll seriously be in shock.

    But, I'm gonna hate to see how terrible the Sonics look in a 7-game series against a playoff-experienced team as well.

    And come on...Haterade bottle? Put that away...you have no idea what that is. [​IMG]</div>
    Hey its not our fault NBA franchises cant comprehend these "simple sets" you claim we run, including the former NBA Champion San Antonio Spurs twice (which means they had plenty of time to dissect our weak strategy, which good teams do).

    We also beat the playoff tested LA Lakers who granted lost their best player to Miami but that shouldn't matter because all the Sonics do is shoot threes anyways [​IMG] .

    The Sonics are successful and the Haters come out of the woodwork, I guess its hard for people to accept that a lottery team can be successful the season after...especially if they are doing better than someone's favorite team.
     
  13. jbbReal Deal

    jbbReal Deal Active Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Shard:</div><div class="quote_post">Hey its not our fault NBA franchises cant comprehend these "simple sets" you claim we run, including the former NBA Champion San Antonio Spurs twice (which means they had plenty of time to dissect our weak strategy, which good teams do).</div>
    Like I said, it's not going to be that way come playoff time. That's a guarantee...and I'll do a sig bet for it.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Shard:</div><div class="quote_post">We also beat the playoff tested LA Lakers who granted lost their best player to Miami but that shouldn't matter because all the Sonics do is shoot threes anyways [​IMG] .</div>
    Let's not brag about beating the Lakers. We do suck, says everyone. [​IMG] We'll see how successful you guys are in March and April...then we'll discuss a Lakers/Sonics matchup. It's about time you guys form some chemistry...right?

    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Shard:</div><div class="quote_post">The Sonics are successful and the Haters come out of the woodwork, I guess its hard for people to accept that a lottery team can be successful the season after...especially if they are doing better than someone's favorite team.</div>
    No haters...not right here anyways. You guys aren't even in my division, so I could care less what really happens in your season. However, when you rant about people hating your team, you're going to find that some really don't take that too well. It's one thing to be Minnesota (who will indeed beat you in a 7-game series) and look at your record and wonder what's wrong...that's understandable. But this is like the Suns and Spurs looking at theirs and saying, "Great...haters welcomed."

    If you open the door to it, people will walk right in. I never hated on the Sonics...I stated my opinion in a Bobcats/Sonics preview...big deal. Ray Allen did shoot badly for being "the best shooter in the league"...but I'm sure he still gets props for what he did. Since you enjoy bringing my team into the fray...our players can't mess up without being called upon and criticized. If Kobe scores 40 and shoots 37%...and the Lakers win...he's still a terrible player.

    You'll see things in a different light once you begin losing. A huge microscope will be placed over Seattle...and before you know it, the media will stick a fork in you, and you're done. Ask Kemp and Payton, when everyone expected them to waltz in and destroy Mutombo and the Nuggets, but Denver stopped them dead in their tracks.
     
  14. Sir Desmond

    Sir Desmond JBB Stig!

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    No one here is claiming we will win the title, I just get sick of people using the "they only have shooters" excuse when the team is brought up, and there's always the common expectation that we can't stay where we are all season.

    The whole point of this thread is to point out that yes we do have shooters, but we are creating a lot of problems with the line-ups. Who cares if we're using simple offensive sets? When you can potentially put out three or four guys who the opposition can't leave open, and have guards who can move the ball efficiently and forwards who are prepared to set pick after pick, I don't care who your defenders are or how easy you think it is to figure out what's going on, it's going to cause problems.

    We probably have the most effective bench in the league too, and we can't even fit Flip and Potapenko into our rotation at the moment, yet you don't hear people talk about that.
     
  15. jbbReal Deal

    jbbReal Deal Active Member

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    And you can't fit Flip or Vitaly in there? Let's not just assume that the lineup will be tougher after that...it's not the way it works.

    Ask the Kings, who lost their luster last year when Webber dropped back into the lineup. They ended up losing their division, and Peja's scoring went from 26 PPG to 19 PPG.

    I remember the Sonics last year, in fact. You guys did make some noise at the beginning...you won your first 8 or something...didn't do so bad, anyways...and then, you dropped games left and right. In fact, the Sonics beat Houston 3 out of the 4 meetings last season...and Houston went to the playoffs. You beat the Lakers as well...who went on to the Finals.

    Beating tough teams mean nothing. When the playoffs roll around, all that matters is that you're in it. Your record only gets you a seed...the rest is history.
     
  16. Sir Desmond

    Sir Desmond JBB Stig!

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    My point actually was our rotation is working so well that we can't find a spot for two of our most important players last season. Nothing to do with being a better or worse team for it, just saying that our depth is something that gets overlooked when pointing out why we're winning.

    And why has this thread suddenly turned into a thread about why we won't win the title? We have a young team and will probably burn out at some point, simply because we are very inexperienced. My point of this thread was simply that this Seattle team is different to the last few years, yet it still gets given the same labels just because we take a lot of threes (gotta play to your strengths). Last year's team that started out well was not nearly as cohesive and well functioned as the 2004/05 model, but that's something that is completely overlooked as long as we keep shooting the ball.
     
  17. jbbReal Deal

    jbbReal Deal Active Member

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    Not much of a difference between this year's and last year's team...with the exception of Brent Barry, and not having Flip in the starting five, the team is nearly identical.

    And as far as not winning a title goes...to me, that's obvious. I'll make the bet that you guys won't even make it to the second round, honestly.

    ----------------

    Since the Lakers were already brought up, and since they live in your signature...I'd like to point out something.

    In fact, let's talk about that Laker game a while back.

    There were four guys in our lineup that shot pathetic...under 25%...Atkins, Mihm, Cook, Brown and Walton. Two starters, two of our important backups. Also, Kobe dropped 35, 9 and 5 while shooting over 50% from the field, yet...Odom shoots 3-10 and was in foul trouble the entire game.

    First off, don't tell me the Sonics' defense stopped us from shooting so well. We had a bad shooting day...defensively, you guys aren't top-notch, and I think you know that. The Lakers won't win a shootout against Seattle, but I think we have enough defenders to hold you guys under 100 points...and if we did that, the game would be ours.

    Lamar Odom will not perform that badly again, once he finds his role on this team...and I doubt Rudy T will let Shard drop 37 on us like he did. If Odom was on him, it wouldn't have happened.

    I saw the game...I know exactly how it all took place. You guys grabbed the lead in the first quarter...and never looked back...but we evened out the other three. Our team lost focus and picked up technicals...we're a new team.

    It won't happen that way in Los Angeles on the 25th. We may have a trade by then, that sends Odom down to play the three. He'll be on Lewis. Mihm plays 150% better in Los Angeles...it's a proven fact...as well as Atkins, who has improved greatly from the perimeter. Kobe plays his best ball after January...and everyone is heating up right now.

    Things will be much different in Los Angeles...and you guys know as well as I do that it takes only one tough loss to knock a team off their pedastal, so don't have high expectations in these next meetings with elite West squads (and I'll single out the Lakers, since they aren't elite) because Seattle is relying on Lewis to carry them into the playoffs. Ray may be your shooter, and people may say you guys are all about shooting, but Rashard is your man, and I know that he's the key to your success.

    Put it on paper...the Sonics will falter as long as you guys keep ranting about it.
     
  18. Semmi

    Semmi JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Real Deal:</div><div class="quote_post">Not much of a difference between this year's and last year's team...with the exception of Brent Barry, and not having Flip in the starting five, the team is nearly identical.</div>

    The difference is Fortson & Collison!!! Thanks to them Evans ain't alone fighting for every loose ball, taking hits in the paint and playing hard defence. This trio now softens opposition and then comes in Radmanovic and delivers the final blow (not with his physical play but with his shooting and his speed). Damn, even James is playing his best basketball as a Sonic (he is a factor in the paint now - previous years he wasn't even in some teams scouting reports).

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
    And as far as not winning a title goes...to me, that's obvious. I'll make the bet that you guys won't even make it to the second round, honestly.
    </div>

    That would be a little miracle if we would make through first round, but I think if we get to playofss then we can discuss this further....now is a little too early...

    And about the Lakers : also I would be very surprised when Lakers makes through first round in playoffs. Because west is loaded with good and great teams and Lakers is not good or by far not great this year!
    Happy New Year!
     
  19. jbbReal Deal

    jbbReal Deal Active Member

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    So, Supersonic (because I believe you post more than any other Sonic fan), how about a sig bet? For an entire month...whoever gets farther in the playoffs...the other person will have to wear a sig of my choice/your choice for a month.

    Injuries don't void the bet, either.
     
  20. Iron Shiek

    Iron Shiek Maintain and Hold It Down

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    Real Deal, why are you so animated about a team that you think is going to falter? This isn't a thread about comparing the Lakers to the Sonics. We already had that thread three weeks ago when we blew yall out.

    I hate to break it to everyone but we are a good team. It's been two months and we have the second best record in the league. Now I don't agree w/ everything that the Sonics are doing but we have come up w/ an effective formula that teams can't figure out. It's called playing as a team. Other teams (especially one w/ Kobe Bryant) should really look to adopt that philosophy.
     

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