Draft History: Re-Evaluating The 1995 Draft

Discussion in 'Golden State Warriors' started by Custodianrules2, May 5, 2005.

  1. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    Draft History: Re-Evaluating The 1995 Draft

    Da Kid Comes to Play, the Warriors Lose Their Way
    by Zhone

    Each year, every NBA team takes a huge gamble by putting its hopes on a single player in the NBA draft. In the draft, teams try to address their needs and hope that they pick a player who will be a difference-maker. Unfortunately, even with the most extensive scouting, many teams draft players who end up going nowhere, while only a few teams come out with great players. As the success of a draft for any major sport should be given at least five years before a complete evaluation, I am evaluating the drafts of yesterday to provide a bit of history and help people remember some of the draft horrors and successes, hopefully providing some food for thought for this year?s NBA draft. Up first is the 1995 draft retrospective. Let's remember some of the hype and circumstances leading up to drafting players who lived up to the hype, players who flopped, and players who proved that NBA scouting is not extensive enough.

    more
     
  2. Zhone

    Zhone JBB JustBBall Member

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    Thanks for the extra link. I'm not sure if us Warriors fans want to relive those times though. [​IMG]
     
  3. Warriorfansnc93

    Warriorfansnc93 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Shoot I would like to have half that draft board on the Warriors still...
     
  4. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    I still think the worst draft ever was 1996. Did you see how many serviceable players there were left on the board? And we ended up taking Todd F-ing Fuller. A player that was valued and covetted by only one team, the team that drafted him... and it was based on need and the search for the elusive franchise big man. He was a late first rounder based on his credentials and we took him at #11. [​IMG]

    Think of how Toronto feels with last year's pick, Rafael "Hoffa" Araujo. I think Raptor fans can relate to our pain and embarassment of bad draft picks because at the time of the live draft you know they shouldn't have gone that high, but they did, and the GM is ducking lynch mobs.
     
  5. Zhone

    Zhone JBB JustBBall Member

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    Yeah, I am actuallying doing 1995-2001. So you'll see the next installment, 1996, sometime soon as it's already done. I'm still doing 1997, but work on it has been kind of boring because there's not contoversy in that one.. just a lot of not that great players, minus Tim Duncan, who was the obvious pick.
     
  6. Kwan1031

    Kwan1031 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Mmm... Our worst draft in last 10 years? It's a toss up between Fuller one and Foyle one to me.

    Fuller one was a total disaster. I can't believe how Twerdzik couldn't have any back up plan if Dampier is gone. But, that's what happened, and we drafted Fuller in panic. Classic example of GM not doing the homework.

    In contrast, Foyle one was an example of making a wrong decision. PJ actually seriously considered drafting Tmac with 8th pick. He could add senior PF/C, who averaged 20/10, or he could have gone wild and draft a highschool kid with huge upside. PJ took safe way, and we know the rest...
     
  7. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    Funniest thing I've heard was that Dave Twarddzick was a talent scout for the Orlando Magic. <g>

    I feel like some people feel about the draft like having no money and choosing between two cars that you can drive for free: Honda Civic and Lamborghini Diablo. Do you want a good, common car with reliability/cheap maitenance or a one-time chance to own a fancy, exotic whose problems are mileage, maintenance and a propensity to break down and get keyed a whole lot. If the car breaks down and is totally undriveable and you can't afford the parts, oh well, at the time it seemed like a good idea because of the high risk/high reward. The reward is that you'd have fun driving it, be able to pick up floozies, and act like an attention-drawing, p-envying big shot.[​IMG] The downside is that if it doesn't work out, you'd be stuck with a car that only looks good on paper and have no way to get around town for a few years, except for the bus.

    So if our team already has cars to drive, including a ferrari, might as well go for another awesome car to add to the collection. Even if we wind up with Tskita type draft pick, it was a risk worth taking because even a guy like a real polished Tskitishvilli would have been a rare player that comes along every so often. Kind of like Dirk Nowitzki.
     
  8. Kwan1031

    Kwan1031 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Funniest thing I've heard was that Dave Twarddzick was a talent scout for the Orlando Magic. <g>

    I feel like some people feel about the draft like having no money and choosing between two cars that you can drive for free: Honda Civic and Lamborghini Diablo. Do you want a good, common car with reliability/cheap maitenance or a one-time chance to own a fancy, exotic whose problems are mileage, maintenance and a propensity to break down and get keyed a whole lot. If the car breaks down and is totally undriveable and you can't afford the parts, oh well, at the time it seemed like a good idea because of the high risk/high reward. The reward is that you'd have fun driving it, be able to pick up floozies, and act like an attention-drawing, p-envying big shot.[​IMG] The downside is that if it doesn't work out, you'd be stuck with a car that only looks good on paper and have no way to get around town for a few years, except for the bus.

    So if our team already has cars to drive, including a ferrari, might as well go for another awesome car to add to the collection. Even if we wind up with Tskita type draft pick, it was a risk worth taking because even a guy like a real polished Tskitishvilli would have been a rare player that comes along every so often. Kind of like Dirk Nowitzki.</div>

    Yeah, I pretty much agree 100%. Also, we have been quite successful drafting projects in recent years, like Richardson, Pietrus and Biedrins. But, when we headed to other way, it was decent to down right horrible. Murphy was pretty much as good as it could get with 14th, Dunleavy was decent, but Foyle over Tmac and Fuller was one of the worst pick. With our current 9 men roster, let's go for home run or strike out, even if we have to swing with our eyes closed...
     
  9. dsigns

    dsigns JBB JustBBall Member

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    Of course I agree that we should have taken T-mac, but at that time he was unproven. Look at what happened with Kwame & Diop. Its a huge risk, there's plenty of high schoolers who arent playing anymore.
     
  10. Kwan1031

    Kwan1031 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Well, there is no question that drafting high school kid is a huge risk. And, besides James, who wasn't a risky pick? But then, if he wasn't a risky pick, he wouldn't be available at 8th [​IMG].

    The reason I say Foyle pick was the worst pick in 10 years is because we had 50% of drafting a superster. Sure, Fuller turned out to be a complete garbage, compare to Foyle, and people will keep bring up "Fuller over Kobe". But the fact is that chance of us drafting and keeping Kobe was pretty much minimal at that point, not to mention Twerdzik went panic mode after Dampier was snatched in 10th and Kobe sending letters to not to draft him. In contrst, PJ was locked in drafting either Foyle or McGrady. Just by %, we had the best chance of drafting top 5 player in the league...
     
  11. .cabangbang

    .cabangbang BBW Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kwan1031:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, there is no question that drafting high school kid is a huge risk. And, besides James, who wasn't a risky pick? But then, if he wasn't a risky pick, he wouldn't be available at 8th [​IMG].

    The reason I say Foyle pick was the worst pick in 10 years is because we had 50% of drafting a superster. Sure, Fuller turned out to be a complete garbage, compare to Foyle, and people will keep bring up "Fuller over Kobe". But the fact is that chance of us drafting and keeping Kobe was pretty much minimal at that point, not to mention Twerdzik went panic mode after Dampier was snatched in 10th and Kobe sending letters to not to draft him. In contrst, PJ was locked in drafting either Foyle or McGrady. Just by %, we had the best chance of drafting top 5 player in the league...</div>'

    I in PJ's view see why he took Foyle. By the stats he was Shaq. He looked like it too. Now if only we had taken the potential over Foyle.....
     
  12. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting dsigns:</div><div class="quote_post">Of course I agree that we should have taken T-mac, but at that time he was unproven. Look at what happened with Kwame & Diop. Its a huge risk, there's plenty of high schoolers who arent playing anymore.</div> The next Kwame or Diop, you basically have to take the risk if you got nothing to lose. They could be the next Jermaine O'neil or Shaq if they ever work on their games.

    Problem with Diop is he has zero post game and very raw like Adonal Foyle. He's very strong, very athletic, but he plays small. He just can't rebound or gobble up boards and that's important when you're supposed to provide big man presence.

    Problem with Kwame is he's got bad hands, a questionable work ethic, and he's very inconsistent. Other games he shows flashes of dominating and other games he just disappears.
     
  13. REREM

    REREM JBB JustBBall Member

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    If a BB player is 6-0,to 6-6,he is trom a main area of the gene pool and must have some polished skills,some desire and motivation to even get a starting spot on a college team. There are fewer people who are 6-9 on the planet,and far fewer who are 7-0. A guy 6-11,7-0, is as apt to have the mental stuff and athletic stuff as a 6-2 guy-but there are 1000 times more 6-2 guys. The "bigs" however CAN have opportunities even if the talent base is not there,even if the motivation/desire/focus are sub-par. Had Felton Spencer been 6-1,he would not have had a starting spot on a HS team.
    When you have a million $ in the bank,there are fun things for a young man to do-more fun than hours of conditioning,practice etc. In a game some players are playing like it's life or death-some find a more comfortable level. Some players play hoops like a grandmaster chess player,instantly aware of where everyone is,instantly ready with a tactical plan, onthers are like a trained dog....sit...fetch..but not clear on why. For some people instant reactions are very sharp,yet for others the mind needs to process,the hands and feet need to co-ordainate,confusion gets in the way,distractions,and the result is much less ideal.

    NBA coaches get paid to win now. 2-3 years later,they could be elsewhere. Making the time to instruct and develop a raw player who may not be real sharp,or real focused is difficult. The coach hates to see HIS player on the floor playing clueless. He hates to see a guy out there who is not really in shape,is not willing to give max effort,and so untill garbage time,he wants to ignore that.
    Fuller,like Shika,was supposed to be a 6-11 guy with 3pt range-and while he made college 3's as a regular player,the NBA 3,as a short-time sub was different. Fuller was not quick,not a Dirk or Duncan. He could rebound-but not when out on the perimeter. The W's at the time preferred veteran mediocrity over young-guy inconsistancy and so RD 1 guys like Fuller,Rozier,Foyle and Donyell Marshall got to sit and watch as a team of veteran journeymen got beat by bigger,more skilled teams. Marshall and Fopyle eventually had to play due to injuries,and earned more minutes,Marshall actually had a very impressive breakthrough that made it impossible to glue him to the bench again. Fuller and Rozier just saw their skills fade away.
    Very often a big man needs to get in the flow,the action,to feed off the energy of the team. Playing 3 min a game doesn't provide that. We had a good illustration this season,as Foyle was much sharper later in the season than when sharing minutes with DD and Cliff. Biedrens rapidly went from not ready for garbage time to a double - double.
    Fuller was not the worst pick,rather he was a modest talent wasted by an inept team. Russell Cross was a horrid pick several years earlier. Cross had been hyped as THE HS big man right after Ewing. ^-11 and dominant. At Purdue he became 6-10 and limited,a slow thinker,not in shape,soft inside but with no outside game...real suspect,yet the hype from HS masked the reality...and the W's needed a "BIG" in a draft where there were not many. Watching Cross it was easy to see he had a lazy streak and relied on a very few skills aside from his bulk. We picked him-and found he was barely 6-9 and slow. Cross never evolved a skill of note,never had a good game,got dumped and soon faded away. A few years later,still desperate to add a big-the W's took Washburn.

    Picture a 6-11 version of Marvin Williams. Washburn had ALL KINDS od "upside" or "potential" if you could say a physically gifted idiot with a coke problem and a severe case of apathy has "potential". Nellie found that this kid could not remember plays,none,ever,nada. It was like coaching a rather dumb puppy. The W's soon dumped him for a low round 2,and soon Washburn was in the CBA--and then was getting cut there too. With Washburn you saw a few college moments when he'd make a soaring power slam,and you'd forget the dumb stuff he'd done earlier. There were major RED FLAGS with him,he had stolen a stereo from someone on the same floor in his dorm,set it up in his room as if nobody would notice-stupid as well as amoral. He got into NC St but in HS the word was he cut class often and was a real poor studen at his best.
    Washburn is a guy to keep in mind if you think every underachiever can be made great
     
  14. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    How many players had as many redflags as Washburn? I mean there was a lot of controversy surrounding the decision to take a chance on him, but the W's did anyway, which was stupid. I doubt Kwame Brown is that bad, nor is Chris Taft

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Had Felton Spencer been 6-1,he would not have had a starting spot on a HS team.</div>
    Aren't we exaggerating a little bit [​IMG] These guys are NBA, they had to be standouts for one reason or another. Again, it's the whole package. Kwame has the talent to be decent, just never the talent to live up to that #1 overall draft so far. His attitude can possibly be fixed if he's found a place in his career where he can be excited and happy to be playing. I mean wasn't Baron a cancer in New Orleans and was contemplating leaving basketball for a while? He sure likes playing for the Warriors and we're glad to have him. You take the good with the bad if you think the results will pay off big. I think Kwame Brown at the right price would be a plus. I think Diop at the right price would be a plus for defensive big man who can one day develop an offensive game. These guys are big men players, big men almost always take a long time to get comfortable in the paint and unlike any of these Chris Washburns, Felton Spencers, Todd Fullers, have less redflags, more upside, more physical skills and came out of high school with teams that probably didn't develop them right to begin with. I'm not saying that we should get them, but we shouldn't count them out as players that could turn their game completely around by either getting more playing time or accessing resources to improve their game. A certain coach or player can be a big difference maker in how a player improves. Michael Jordan often chewed out and hurt Kwame Brown's confidence, not having a pure point probably hurt his game, the press lambasted him constantly for the team losing and his lack of consistency and wrote stories about his off the court life. Diop was stuck behind the likes of Illgauskus, Chris Mihm, Robert Traylor, Tony Battie on the Cleveland Cavs. How the heck is he supposed to develop if so many of the coaching and training resources are on other centers placed ahead of him in the rotation? It's like they've already given up on him and had no confidence in what he could become. He's just a kid figuring out the game, so of course it's going to take a while to get results.

    I think if they can't find some way to compete in two or three years time, then it's safe to say they'll probably be Jerome James or Loren Woods type of disappointment. But c'mon these guys are younger than Jrich and look how long it took Jrich to convert from power forward to shooting guard. Now I don't know what Kwame Brown's personality is like or what his desire is really about or if Diop simply is clueless on how to be an effective big man, but these are guys who can suddenly see huge turn around when they work out the kinks. I'd say never say never when it comes to the bigger players because they always take time to develop, especially offensively.
     
  15. REREM

    REREM JBB JustBBall Member

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    Felton Spencer was 7-0,and only that fact kept him in the league. He led the league in fouls committed while his D stopped nobody,on OFFENSE he was half as good as Adonal-but a much worse dribbler-passer. Half the GUARDS in the NBA out-board poor Spencer. In fact,at 6-1 he would have been cut from most HS teams with those skills.
    IF Diop,Kwame had been dedicated,inclined to play their best,to learn,think,be in shape,their carreers would be much different. Ben Wallace worked his way up from no-name to ALL-STAR-----WORKED being the key. The pace of pro ball,the constant split-second decisions are a problem for some folks-and typically,it's the big guys. Foyle has quickness,strength,intelligence and works very hard-but he does not have real good hands,and mentally,does not process the situation in 1/4 sec like some can. Diop may have the same limits-and be too lazy too,in which case,his "potential" is not so good. The W's need to look at POSSIBILITIES,and look carefully. A roster slot CAN be used to audition a sleeper,an undrafted guy,CBA guy (Cardinal was a walk-on here,as was Boykins). Kwame has shown some game-but Red Flags? They suspended him,Jordan was down on him,and nobody seems eager to take him...unless he's taking a low,low salary. Diop has been near invisible,and the trend was he played less-not more.
     
  16. Kwan1031

    Kwan1031 JBB JustBBall Member

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    First, I don't know how you can judge Fuller as a NBA talent. He received a plenty of chance to prove himself when he was with Warriors. As a matter of fact, he started at the beginning of the season, and started quite a while, until it was painfully obvious that he didn't belong to have a starting job. His downfall was simple. He was slow, and speed of releasing shot was really slow. In one occassion, one guy was pump faked, but he had enough time to jump again and block his shot. His skill may worked in college, but in faster environment like NBA, his shot releasing speed just couldn't work. And, that's why he is out of the league. And, come on. It's true that neither Duncan nor Dirk is super athlathic, but you can't put Fuller in their league.

    Second, I don't know Diop will be anything special in NBA, since he never made any noise, and he had many chance to do something in the league. But, I would love to give Kwame a second chance in here. Sure, he had many incidents in Wiz, but given circumstances, there are good reasons why he never panned out in NBA. I mean, he was drafted no. 1, which is quite a burden for a teenager. Then, MJ, the greatest NBA player in the history, made him a whipping boy. If that's not enough, when MJ is gone, Arenas took over, and while he is a great player, he exactly isn't a PG, who shares a ball and use other players' strength. If price is right, I would love to give him a second chance. Unfortunately, other clubs also realizes that, and his price will probably be beyond our reach. Heck, Hawks are already discussing trading Harrington to make a room for Kwame...
     
  17. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    The big question is who handles the offense? Lue is primarily an open court player, a good backup, but not a starter. If there's no playmaker on the team, Kwame Brown will be even more of a waste.

    pg ?
    sg Josh Childress
    sf Josh Smith
    pf Andrew Bogut
    c Kwame Brown

    It might be better just to draft Chris Paul, have him be the team's vocal leader, clutch player and playmaker. Maybe try to find a player like Rebuen Boumtje Boumtje to play center or just roll with Predrag Drobjnak. It might be a good open court team...

    pg Chris Paul
    sg Josh Childress
    sf Josh Smith
    pf Predrag Drobnjak
    c Kwame Brown

    Also back to the 1995 draft, maybe the Hawks can pick up Travis Best, who played at Georgia Tech until '95 to be the backup? The important thing is that Atlanta get some decent playmakers that can get the ball inside to the big man.
     

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