One-Handed Passes

Discussion in 'Golden State Warriors' started by AlleyOop, Apr 12, 2006.

  1. AlleyOop

    AlleyOop JBB JustBBall Member

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    Watching this game against the Mavs makes me wonder: Do the coaches just forget to teach the game? I mean, JRich has been making that same tired-a$$, fundamentally wrong, telegraphed one-handed pass since he first came into the league. One handed passes are incorrect. Sure, there are very rare instances, perhaps 1% of passing situations, which actually do call for a one-handed pass. But almost never.

    One-handed passes are terrible. You cannot take them back. If you start the pass, and see a defender start to jump the passing lane, it's already over. You have a slight chance to "cuff" it and retract the ball, but even then it's a near-turnover. The majority of the time, you can't take it back.

    Further, you can't fake a one-handed pass. You can't fake high and go low with a bounce pass. You can't fake low and go high with a overhead or chest pass.

    Nowadays the tendency in the NBA is to look as cool and "effortless" as possible in your game. If it it looks like you're trying hard, you're not cool and the other players in the NBA fraternity will make fun of you.

    This is why, IMO, JRich makes these lazy-ass passes. Hey, don't get me wrong -- I think JRich plays very hard. But when he's handling the ball, he tries to look like "everything's cool," like he's a terrific ball handler. In part this might be because he's trying to mask the fact that he's a ball-handling liability waiting to be stripped, so he tries to play the part to "look" like a good ball handler. But it's evident -- particularly in this case -- that he needs to be taught a few things about how to handle a mutha-funkin basketball.

    When nothing is there, JRich always picks his dribble up with one hand and gives the ball to a teammate. It's casual and effortless, but fundamentally wrong and a turnover waiting to happen. He needs to be taught to take that extra 1/2 second, spend those extra 5 calories, and use the other hand to secure and make a two-handed pass.

    Derek Fisher makes this same fundamental error all the time.

    Why hasn't Mario Elie stepped and said "Dude, Guys, that tired-a$$ one-handed pass is weak, incorrect, and a sign of an uneducated player. Stop doing it."
     
  2. Char

    Char JBB Nowitzness

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    I used to live in the Bay Area, I'd watch some Warriors games. JRich often seemed to play with some kind of swagger. He seems to like swagging his legs and shoulders in a effortless way like you mentioned.
    Mike Montgomery just doesn't seem tough enough to make the players play better and elevate the team game. Just bench em' Mike. I'm watching the Mavericks play the Warriors on ESPN. Monty has gray hair, that is a sign of wear and tear. It is clear that coaching in the NBA has taken its toll on Mike.
    The Pistons and Spurs are 2 teams that come to mind that don't mess around when it comes time to play basketball.
     
  3. AlleyOop

    AlleyOop JBB JustBBall Member

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    Actually that was a nice one-handed pass from Fisher to Biedrins in the 3rd quarter. I just don't like them on the perimeter, especially when swinging the ball.
     
  4. AnimeFANatic

    AnimeFANatic JBB JustBBall Member

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    Foyle has the ugliest 2 handed pass ever. And he does it in the most predictable way. I think Zarko could do 1 handed passes well, he can palm the ball like nothing.
     
  5. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting AlleyOop:</div><div class="quote_post">Watching this game against the Mavs makes me wonder: Do the coaches just forget to teach the game? I mean, JRich has been making that same tired-a$$, fundamentally wrong, telegraphed one-handed pass since he first came into the league. One handed passes are incorrect. Sure, there are very rare instances, perhaps 1% of passing situations, which actually do call for a one-handed pass. But almost never.

    One-handed passes are terrible. You cannot take them back. If you start the pass, and see a defender start to jump the passing lane, it's already over. You have a slight chance to "cuff" it and retract the ball, but even then it's a near-turnover. The majority of the time, you can't take it back.

    Further, you can't fake a one-handed pass. You can't fake high and go low with a bounce pass. You can't fake low and go high with a overhead or chest pass.

    Nowadays the tendency in the NBA is to look as cool and "effortless" as possible in your game. If it it looks like you're trying hard, you're not cool and the other players in the NBA fraternity will make fun of you.

    This is why, IMO, JRich makes these lazy-ass passes. Hey, don't get me wrong -- I think JRich plays very hard. But when he's handling the ball, he tries to look like "everything's cool," like he's a terrific ball handler. In part this might be because he's trying to mask the fact that he's a ball-handling liability waiting to be stripped, so he tries to play the part to "look" like a good ball handler. But it's evident -- particularly in this case -- that he needs to be taught a few things about how to handle a mutha-funkin basketball.

    When nothing is there, JRich always picks his dribble up with one hand and gives the ball to a teammate. It's casual and effortless, but fundamentally wrong and a turnover waiting to happen. He needs to be taught to take that extra 1/2 second, spend those extra 5 calories, and use the other hand to secure and make a two-handed pass.

    Derek Fisher makes this same fundamental error all the time.

    Why hasn't Mario Elie stepped and said "Dude, Guys, that tired-a$$ one-handed pass is weak, incorrect, and a sign of an uneducated player. Stop doing it."</div>

    No kidding. Good points. I think the fact that Jrich is our best player in an 82 game season and is the true heart and soul of this "non-team" we have, makes it so fans don't really focus much on his weakest attributes.

    There's really not too much one can fix or nitpick about Jrich when he's arguably the best all around player and best current building block for this franchise (aside from the rookies recently drafted). I'm just glad he's humble enough to listen and improve his game.
     
  6. AnimeFANatic

    AnimeFANatic JBB JustBBall Member

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    Custodian,

    Did you cringe when he dribbled off his foot?
     
  7. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting AnimeFANatic:</div><div class="quote_post">Custodian,

    Did you cringe when he dribbled off his foot?</div>
    I always do... he's known to do that. We're talking about a guy who once dribbled off his own foot while dribbling out the game clock. No pressure on him or nothing and he just inexplicably lost the ball to, I think, Rasheed Wallace (in Portland at the time), whose eyes lit up and went running the other way. It didn't change the outcome of the game since the Warriors had won by a large margin, but still... How bad of a ballhandler do you have to be to lose the ball in a no pressure situation?

    Plus, foul shooting. Another cringer.

    The other cringer is Derek Fisher launching a three when there's an open guy in the corner or him messing up a fastbreak or him going iso to close out the quarter and losing the ball. Oh and Fisher's knack for copying star players like the Kobe Bryant shot off the dribble or the Bdiddy shuffle. If you don't know what the Bdiddy shuffle is, it's when he goes side to side with the ball for 20 seconds without ever passing and launches a way off shot.

    The other is a Foyle layup or dropped pass.

    Dunleavy catch and shoot jump shot, missed free throws.

    Pietrus drive and crash offensive fouls, long ugly shots, his reach-in fouls, and missing free throws.

    The Baron Davis dribble back and forth for 18 seconds and launch (without even passing to somebody to receive it back). How he constantly gambles on steals and comes up empty and gets burned by his assignment. You either get the steal or you just stick to staying in front of your man, Baron.

    The Biedrins foul shooting situation and his knack for picking up dumb fouls.

    The Murphy jab step, jab step, pump fake, right hand dribble, crossover to his left (loses the ball or leaves a guy wide open in the corner). Murphy getting out of the way when there's nobody else that's big guarding the rim. Not boxing out.

    I'd say the worst aspect out of all these guys is the shooting situation, but there's few guys on our team that take 10 shots a game and get like 45% field goals.
     
  8. Char

    Char JBB Nowitzness

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    Wow. The last time I dribbled off my foot, I was 12 years old.
     
  9. AlleyOop

    AlleyOop JBB JustBBall Member

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    Well -- if you want to be in the discussion of "All-Star Guards," you have to be an established good ball handler. So JRich is trying to pretend to be one. I just hope in the off-season he just works on it to actually become a semi-decent ball handler. One-on-one moves, iso moves, backdown spin moves, he does those well actually. But overall ball handling and ball control in the open court, he just tries to do too much. Kobe? That guy can play point. JRich? He's a small forward playing the 2-guard position.
     
  10. jason bourne

    jason bourne JBB JustBBall Member

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    I heard a JRich interview the other night. He said he'll work on his free throws (was a bit embarassed by it) and defense. He didn't mention his ball handling, but thought that he knew about the weaknesses that he had to address. He's only 25, so that's a good attitude.
     
  11. AnimeFANatic

    AnimeFANatic JBB JustBBall Member

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    You know when J-Rich says he'll do something, you can take his word for it. This guy wants to be an all-star bad and knows what he needs to do to get there.
     
  12. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    Anyone catch the post game comments by B.Diddy after the Laker loss?

    He also said the team needs to focus on defense more and shoot less 3 pointers.

    I'm not sure if another losing season is getting the players to listen to Monty now, or this is just verbatim on Baron's part. He's viewed as the leader of this team, and if he can make the first commitment to playing defense and smarter, everyone else will follow suit.
     
  13. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    I agree with that Shape, the players follow Baron more than they will Montgomery. From some of the quotes I've read it seems like he's realized that the Warriors need to stop chucking and play some defense since hes been injured. If he comes into next season healthy, in-shape, and playing defense and penetrating I think the players will start to do the sameand really play inspired ball.
     
  14. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Anyone catch the post game comments by B.Diddy after the Laker loss?

    He also said the team needs to focus on defense more and shoot less 3 pointers.

    I'm not sure if another losing season is getting the players to listen to Monty now, or this is just verbatim on Baron's part. He's viewed as the leader of this team, and if he can make the first commitment to playing defense and smarter, everyone else will follow suit.</div>
    That's funny. We're talking about a guy that really leads by example with how many 3-balls this guy launches and how many steals he gambles on.

    The Warriors wouldn't need to settle for threes if they just bothered to call some plays and execute, but instead they dribble it back and forth, stand around, and hoist. Sure we have no inside presence with stonehands Foyle or outside jumper Murphy or can't dribble/beat defenders Jrich/Dunleavy, but there is such thing as an intermediate range game and making free throws or layups using screens. But damn we can't even do that right. Baron alone has proven he can take lots of people off the dribble every single time, both left and right using strength, size, or quickness to his advantage. Why settle for the three, man? Take the deep two. I don't mind the wide open three, but make it, dammit or look like the fool with low basketball I.Q.

    Also, you don't play defense by reaching in, because the other guy (if he's quick with the ball, will react and take Baron off the dribble the instant he makes an attempt) Baron reaches in constantly like he's trying to lead the league in steals like he did one season. Baron is a mentally quick kind of guy, an all-star caliber playmaker, but he's just not a complete player in some ways, especially in the organized team kind of game and free throws. He's a streetballer that sometimes plays selfish ball and he forgets he's the point guard. Sure Dunleavy/Foyle/ and others aren't reliable scorers, but make it easier for them so they just can't miss. I think a lot of times, he and Fisher don't try to get the ball to these guys and make their teammates better. It's like the problem Houston had with a Steve Francis/Cuttino Mobley backcourt and how they didn't really run plays. As good as those two were, they didn't make the playoffs until they got some legit inside scoring and some organization down. So maybe Baron really isn't at fault at sometimes. But he still needs to listen to the coach if he's not listening to him. There is a game plan but few guys really follow it out of discomfort, I think.
     
  15. jason bourne

    jason bourne JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">The Warriors wouldn't need to settle for threes if they just bothered to call some plays and execute, but instead they dribble it back and forth, stand around, and hoist.</div>

    CR2, have you noticed Monty has abandoned the pick and roll and has been playing more motion offense and running when possible. The guards are moving the ball and even doing the weave. It's not very sophisticated or anything like that, but at least it moves the ball more. Yet, it ends up with the same lousy shots by Fish, Dun, Murphy, etc. [​IMG] .
     
  16. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting jason voorhees:</div><div class="quote_post">CR2, have you noticed Monty has abandoned the pick and roll and has been playing more motion offense and running when possible. The guards are moving the ball and even doing the weave. It's not very sophisticated or anything like that, but at least it moves the ball more. Yet, it ends up with the same lousy shots by Fish, Dun, Murphy, etc. [​IMG] .</div>
    I wouldn't be suprised since that's why he's in the coaching hall of fame. His game is motion offense and stack plays. I didn't really see Foyle/Murphy/Fisher really being good fits for this type of offense because #1.) You need a point guard that will run plays and also know how to take care of the ball and run at least an honest fastbreak (so that others will want to run)
    #2.) Big men. You can't have one dimensional bigs that shoot from outside or can't catch the ball. You also need both who can defend, rebound, and be real physical in the ways you need it. Murphy's not tough enough to box out and he's very weak at defending weakside for a big man, Foyle's too nice of a guy to be an intimidator and he's a stiff nowadays. These guys are not starters on a playoff team. Actually any top 7 youngest team in the NBA is not a playoff team, especially if their vets like Fisher or Foyle can't play their positions like they are supposed to.

    http://www.championshipproductions.com/cgi...c=coachlikeapro

    Absolutely hilarious how Pietrus is on the cover. He don't run plays! He doesn't know team basketball yet. But I still love the kid. Lot of heart. Now he just needs to have some brains or he'll be the shooting guard version of Adonal Foyle when it comes to basketball I.Q. I guess it doesn't matter if you have it, because sometimes the skill is missing. Take Dunleavy for example. If he's not shooting it, he's a non-factor on the first step dribble drive or when he gets the mismatch on a smaller player in the post. I'm not even sure getting stronger did anything for him. He couldn't post up a can of soda and get a hook shot over it.

    I'm telling ya we may not like it how Ike and Ellis are brought along slowly, but in the end I think it'll be worth it not to throw them in right away like how it was done with Dunleavy. Dunleavy couldn't handle the pressure and he's never been the same since. Especially because there wasn't any foundation in place for him to be a good glue guy. Who was the inside presence? Who was going to cover him on defense? What kind of offensive style were we running? We didn't have any of that and now possibly we may have that now with finding the right players and hoping they turn out right talent-wise and are organized with their teammates. Mullin can't stop there though, he's got to keep finding more talent and not locking up the wrong guys. He's got to support the coach in building a team, rather than just collecting a mismatch of talents that don't fit together or do anything extremely well together. In the end I hope we achieve a team that is going to be both a good fastbreak and halfcourt team with some good ability on both ends of the floor, night in and night out.
     
  17. AlleyOop

    AlleyOop JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">Absolutely hilarious how Pietrus is on the cover.</div>

    I know, WTF!?! That is classic.
     

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