How Would M.J. fare against Kobe,Wade, or Lebron?

Discussion in 'NBA General' started by The Dream, Mar 24, 2007.

  1. The Dream

    The Dream mama there goes that man!

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    While looking around on ESPN I came across this comment. I don't agree with everything said in the following, but the question is how would M.J. do if he had to face players like Kobe, Wade, and Lebron frequently? I'm not saying that any of these men are better than Jordan currently (at least not yet, because by the end of their careers I think we "might" be able to make a strong argument for either one), but if all 4 of these men played in the same era with players around them of equal talent would we place M.J. up on such a high pedastool? The teams of the 90's were better than the teams of today....and that's without a doubt imo, BUT M.J. didn't face the same competition at the 2 guard/forward spot that the elite guard players do today. Just think Kobe,Wade,Lebron,Tmac,Arenas,Melo,Pierce,Redd,Iverson,Carter,etc. Throughout Jordans career his main competition at his position were Nique and Drexler. While I think both of these guys are great I don't think they match up with the talent that I listed for today....just something to think about.


    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">im so sick of MJ being put on some pedistool. Kobe has the better outside shot, if you can't see that then you have never played the game. The only reason MJ's FG% was higher was because his shots were much closer to the hoop. And as for all this MVP bull. Yah MJ made his teammates better and so does Kobe. the only problem is Kobes teamates suck. Lamar is too timid to reach his potential and thats the only person on that roster besides for KB i'll address. Im from chicago i idolized jordan when playing basketball in highschool, but i have watched both players and both eras. Kobe's era has MUCH more talent than jordan's. I wish both of these players came up now. There is no doubt in my mind who would be better. It would be Kobe and MJ far superior to the rest of the league. But no1 would question, unless they wanted to make good T.V., who is a better player. AND wow jordan played good D on chumps, i want jordan to stop wade from his cross-over and drives. or better yet ask jordan to gaurd LB. that would just be a comedy. Im not trying to hate on Mj in anyone. MJ is no doubt one of the greatest athletes the earth has ever seen so don't read it thinking that. But im getting sick of people saying MJ is untouchable. It has been apparent to me who was goin to be the best ever after KB's 4th year, it's just a shame theres some idiots out there who truly just can not see this.
    </div>
     
  2. yudalicious

    yudalicious JBB JustBBall Member

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    I think Kobe has a more pure shot. I think skill wise Kobe has a bit more in his repertoire because of those that preceded him, MJ included. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I think mentally, MJ had something none of these guys have, but with Kobe coming in the closest.
    I refuse to mention LBJ and Wade in the same sentence as MJ and Kobe as of yet, I think today's game is tailored to the perimeter player (Wade comes to mind), who gets so many touch fouls called, MJ didn't have that. Also, LBJ, he shot a fadeaway over Matt Carrol (WHO?), MJ or Kobe would've smelled blood and took full advantage of the situation. I don't want to start an efight, I like all these guys and I'm not taking anythign away from any of them, just my .2 cents.
     
  3. MJordan

    MJordan JBB JustBBall Member

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    In Jordan's prime, he would beat those guys...he's already beaten Kobe.



    Michael Jordan's shots were closer to the basket" .... he was a clever shooter, he picked his shots based on the moment.

    Kobe shoots long range, what is the point?....Kobe is a great player, no doubt..but he is not better than Jordan.

    "Throughout Jordans career his main competition at his position were Nique and Drexler."

    True...but nonetheless, Jordan had MORE competition than now.

    John Stockton, Karl Malone, Gary Payton, Shawn Kemp, Tim Hardaway, Alonzo Mourning, Reggie Miller, Rik Smits, Chris Mullen, Mark Jackson, Clyde Drexler, Steve Smith, Grant Hill, Joe Dumars, Isiah Thomas, Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Dennis Johnson, Danny Ainge, Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille Oneal, Penny Hardaway, Magic Johnson......I could keep going, through out Jordan's career, this is what he consistently faced.....Mid Range jumpers were more of an art then than now....Now in days it is more about jams and layups.
     
  4. durvasa

    durvasa JBB Rockets Fan

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    <div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Just think Kobe, Wade, Lebron, Tmac, Arenas, Melo, Pierce, Redd, Iverson, Carter,etc. Throughout Jordans career his main competition at his position were Nique and Drexler. While I think both of these guys are great I don't think they match up with the talent that I listed for today....just something to think about.</div>


    Why does it matter? They wouldn't be any more "talented" at stopping Jordan. They're talents lie primarily on the offensive end, not defensive end.
     
  5. arre

    arre JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">23MJordan23 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">In Jordan's prime, he would beat those guys...he's already beaten Kobe.



    Michael Jordan's shots were closer to the basket" .... he was a clever shooter, he picked his shots based on the moment.

    Kobe shoots long range, what is the point?....Kobe is a great player, no doubt..but he is not better than Jordan.

    "Throughout Jordans career his main competition at his position were Nique and Drexler."

    True...but nonetheless, Jordan had MORE competition than now.

    John Stockton, Karl Malone, Gary Payton, Shawn Kemp, Tim Hardaway, Alonzo Mourning, Reggie Miller, Rik Smits, Chris Mullen, Mark Jackson, Clyde Drexler, Steve Smith, Grant Hill, Joe Dumars, Isiah Thomas, Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Dennis Johnson, Danny Ainge, Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille Oneal, Penny Hardaway, Magic Johnson......I could keep going, through out Jordan's career, this is what he consistently faced.....Mid Range jumpers were more of an art then than now....Now in days it is more about jams and layups.</div>

    Your nickname says it all. [​IMG]
     
  6. kobe23

    kobe23 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">yudalicious Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I think Kobe has a more pure shot. I think skill wise Kobe has a bit more in his repertoire because of those that preceded him, MJ included. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I think mentally, MJ had something none of these guys have, but with Kobe coming in the closest.
    I refuse to mention LBJ and Wade in the same sentence as MJ and Kobe as of yet, I think today's game is tailored to the perimeter player (Wade comes to mind), who gets so many touch fouls called, MJ didn't have that. Also, LBJ, he shot a fadeaway over Matt Carrol (WHO?), MJ or Kobe would've smelled blood and took full advantage of the situation. I don't want to start an efight, I like all these guys and I'm not taking anythign away from any of them, just my .2 cents.</div>


    1. You know whats funny? As much as i love kobe's jumper and want to say that he has the best J... i would have to disagree because Kobe patented/copied his jumper from watching Mj... thats the truth
    2. IMO both of them both have the SAME level of competitiveness... you could just see it in their eyes... they have the same stare down... the same swagger... and the same killer instinct and killer face
     
  7. MJordan

    MJordan JBB JustBBall Member

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    "Your nickname says it all."

    Tell me what it says.
     
  8. Bahir

    Bahir User power factor: ∞

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    I think Kobe is the better scorer, in terms of putting the ball in the basket from anywhere on the court, regardless of who is guarding him. MJ was better at shot selection, from the games I've seen, he didn't take the kind of shots Kobe does, at least not later in his career (under Phil Jackson).

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">"Your nickname says it all."

    Tell me what it says.</div>

    I'll tell you. It makes it seem like you are going in with a biased opinion.
     
  9. The Dream

    The Dream mama there goes that man!

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> refuse to mention LBJ and Wade in the same sentence as MJ and Kobe as of yet, I think today's game is tailored to the perimeter player (Wade comes to mind), who gets so many touch fouls called, MJ didn't have that</div>

    Wade gets away with just as much as any other perimeter player that has ever played the game....

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Why does it matter? They wouldn't be any more "talented" at stopping Jordan. They're talents lie primarily on the offensive end, not defensive end.
    </div>

    I'm not saying they would "stop" Jordan, but Jordan in turn would have to "stop" them also.....

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">John Stockton, Karl Malone, Gary Payton, Shawn Kemp, Tim Hardaway, Alonzo Mourning, Reggie Miller, Rik Smits, Chris Mullen, Mark Jackson, Clyde Drexler, Steve Smith, Grant Hill, Joe Dumars, Isiah Thomas, Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Dennis Johnson, Danny Ainge, Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille Oneal, Penny Hardaway, Magic Johnson......I could keep going, through out Jordan's career, this is what he consistently faced.....Mid Range jumpers were more of an art then than now....Now in days it is more about jams and layups.
    </div>

    yes overall there was more talent, BUT at the guard/forward position I think an argument can be made that this era is much better...I just think it would be interesting to see Jordan play against other "jordanesque" players...that's all.
     
  10. kobe23

    kobe23 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">23MJordan23 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">In Jordan's prime, he would beat those guys...he's already beaten Kobe.



    Michael Jordan's shots were closer to the basket" .... he was a clever shooter, he picked his shots based on the moment.

    Kobe shoots long range, what is the point?....Kobe is a great player, no doubt..but he is not better than Jordan.

    "Throughout Jordans career his main competition at his position were Nique and Drexler."

    True...but nonetheless, Jordan had MORE competition than now.

    John Stockton, Karl Malone, Gary Payton, Shawn Kemp, Tim Hardaway, Alonzo Mourning, Reggie Miller, Rik Smits, Chris Mullen, Mark Jackson, Clyde Drexler, Steve Smith, Grant Hill, Joe Dumars, Isiah Thomas, Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Dennis Johnson, Danny Ainge, Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille Oneal, Penny Hardaway, Magic Johnson......I could keep going, through out Jordan's career, this is what he consistently faced.....Mid Range jumpers were more of an art then than now....Now in days it is more about jams and layups.</div>

    Not thinking of the accomplishments, i think these players would be harder to play against than their predecessors...

    Shaq not in his prime
    Steve Nash is the present day John Stockton
    Dwight Howard is younger and more athletic than Shawn Kemp
    Wade >>> Hardaway can i say killa crossova?
    Yao = a longer, younger, taller hakeem [​IMG]
     
  11. The Dream

    The Dream mama there goes that man!

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yao = a longer, younger, taller hakeem </div>

    please don't say this, lol.....he's longer, younger, and taller but no where in the same stratosphere as Hakeem...
     
  12. rafy

    rafy JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">kobe23 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Not thinking of the accomplishments, i think these players would be harder to play against than their predecessors...

    Shaq not in his prime
    Steve Nash is the present day John Stockton
    Dwight Howard is younger and more athletic than Shawn Kemp
    Wade >>> Hardaway can i say killa crossova?
    Yao = a longer, younger, taller hakeem [​IMG]</div>

    Please stop...just please. [​IMG]
     
  13. The Dream

    The Dream mama there goes that man!

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    Steve Nash currently imo is as good or even better than Stockton
    Kemp > Howard (for right now)
    Wade > Penny...duh.
    Hakeem's Ghost > Yao

    but this isn't about overall talent this about talent at Jordans position...
     
  14. MJordan

    MJordan JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Bahir Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I'll tell you. It makes it seem like you are going in with a biased opinion.</div>

    Figured [​IMG]...but not true.

    "Shaq not in his prime"

    Most of Shaqs fame came from being on the Magic.


    "Steve Nash is the present day John Stockton"

    No he's not. Nash is compared to Stockton, but the playing styles are still different. Stockton is still better than Nash at the moment

    "Dwight Howard is younger and more athletic than Shawn Kemp"

    Shawn Kemp wasn't known for being athletic though. He was known for being a powerhouse. Dwight is definitely more athletic

    "Wade >>> Hardaway can i say killa crossova?"

    Tim Hardaway revolutionized dribbling...D Wade is a better player though.

    "Yao = a longer, younger, taller hakeem"

    haha....Taller yes, younger yes...plays like Hakeem? No.
     
  15. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    Kobe would have success in any era of basketball because he can score anywhere on the court. Skillwise he's better than Jordan, but he's also had the benefit of mimicking Jordan's strengths and improving on areas of the game Jordan had weaknesses at. However, Jordan was the better athlete and his will to win is unmatched. Kobe is close, but Jordan had this intimidation factor over everyone in the arena.

    I also agree with yudalicious, Wade & LeBron don't deserve to be in the discussion. They haven't been in the league long enough, although both are off to great starts in their careers.
     
  16. rafy

    rafy JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Steve Nash currently imo is as good or even better than Stockton
    Kemp > Howard (for right now)
    Wade > Penny...duh.
    Hakeem's Ghost > Yao

    but this isn't about overall talent this about talent at Jordans position...</div>

    [​IMG]

    Not to take anything away form Stevie, but if Stockton was on the present day Phoenix team in his prime, imo they'd already have a ring.

    Saying Wade > Penny is baseless. At one time he was considered to be the next Jordan. Which is ridiculous. However, from a pure talent status, I don't think you can judge them right now. We don't know what would have happened if he didn't blow his knee out. (assuming we're talking about Penny and not Tim, I'm not sure.)

    Mind you I've been a huge Wade fan since he was drafted.

    The rest I agree with.


    But as far as competition at MJ's position. You have to consider that he wasn't just guarded by his position. Points and Small Forwards also took that duty, depending on their abilities. So, if you want to compare the dream team talent with todays talent, I'll just leave the thread right now.
     
  17. MJordan

    MJordan JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe would have success in any era of basketball because he can score anywhere on the court. Skillwise he's better than Jordan, but he's also had the benefit of mimicking Jordan's strengths and improving on areas of the game Jordan had weaknesses at. However, Jordan was the better athlete and his will to win is unmatched. Kobe is close, but Jordan had this intimidation factor over everyone in the arena.

    I also agree with yudalicious, Wade & LeBron don't deserve to be in the discussion. They haven't been in the league long enough, although both are off to great starts in their careers.</div>

    What skills does Kobe have over Jordan...other than 3 pt shooting?
     
  18. The Dream

    The Dream mama there goes that man!

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
    Saying Wade > Penny is baseless. At one time he was considered to be the next Jordan. Which is ridiculous. However, from a pure talent status, I don't think you can judge them right now. We don't know what would have happened if he didn't blow his knee out. (assuming we're talking about penny and not tim, I'm not sure.)
    </div>

    I was a big Penny fan, but I didn't see the drive in Penny that Wade has...
    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Not to take anything away form Stevie, but if Stockton was on the present day Phoenix team in his prime, imo they'd already have a ring.
    </div>

    I'll agree to disagree with this also since I want to stay on topic.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe would have success in any era of basketball because he can score anywhere on the court. Skillwise he's better than Jordan, but he's also had the benefit of mimicking Jordan's strengths and improving on areas of the game Jordan had weaknesses at. However, Jordan was the better athlete and his will to win is unmatched. Kobe is close, but Jordan had this intimidation factor over everyone in the arena.

    I also agree with yudalicious, Wade & LeBron don't deserve to be in the discussion. They haven't been in the league long enough, although both are off to great starts in their careers.
    </div>

    yeah that's why I say Jordan > anyone in the game now, but it would be interesting to see how Jordan would do against players close to his caliber at the same position....

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What skills does Kobe have over Jordan...other than 3 pt shooting?
    </div>

    I think Jordan was more relentless with taking it to the rack (similar to Wade), but as far as creating their own shot, I think Kobe might have the edge there
     
  19. The Dream

    The Dream mama there goes that man!

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So, if you want to compare the dream team talent with todays talent, I'll just leave the thread right now.
    </div>

    by the time this era is over we might be able to do that....just think Wade,Kobe, Lebron, Durant (possibly),Arenas,Tmac, Nash, Howard,Dirk,Yao, Bosh,Duncan,Garnett, Oden AFTER it's all said and done with.....team wise the 90's was much better but player for player this era is just as talented as any other in NBA history....quote me on that.
     
  20. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    <div class="quote_poster">23MJordan23 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">
    What skills does Kobe have over Jordan...other than 3 pt shooting?
    </div>

    His footwork in the post is more polished than Jordan's. It allows Kobe to have more counter moves once the defender reacts. Kobe has more versatility in his mid-range game than Jordan had. Kobe is better at finishing with his left hand than Jordan ever was.
     

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