On to Brassard...

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vroppelt

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4Y 4.4M AAV if they work it out, if not, I think the arbitrator gives him somewhere in the 4.5-4.8 range...

What do you guys think he is worth or will get?
 
trade him. Not worth that money.
 
He made $3.7 last year and hardly set the world on fire. My offer would be a more than fair $4.2. If he wants more let him walk.
 
It's not the worst deal for 5y, which will take him up to around 30 y/o. I think he can be a good 50+ player and actually has more skill than Stepan. Any more than 5 and it's getting into overpaying. Maybe they trade Stepan next offseason in a E. Kane type deal and sign Spezza or Krejci.
 
5 years at 20-22 is what he probably is worth, so we did have to overpay to keep him. I believe 68 to 75 pts. is what he needs to put up to validate. Consider that the Islanders signed JT for 6 years at an average of 5.6 mil per and Derrick is nowhere near JT caliber
 
He obviously doesn't have more skill than Stepan, but I have no issue giving Brass 5 mill per for 5 seasons. We bought out 4 UFA seasons, that is a lot. Figure Stepan gets 6 mill per after next season. Having those two locked up for 5 or more years for 11 mill or so isn't a bad situation. If Miller can grow into a 3rd line C sooner rather than later we could be pretty solid down the middle within the next year or two. And if not we can always deal for another C or sign one next summer.

Now bring Moore back for around 1 mill per for maybe two seasons, and we'll end up with about 1 mill or so of cap space into the season.

Next up is how we handle Staal. That should be interesting.
 
Not apples to apples at all puck. JT was young and no where near UFA status. Brassard was scheduled to be a UFA next summer. So I'm sorry but you shouldn't even mention their contracts in the same sentence, they are literally 100% different situations.

And no shot Brass scores near 70 points, the guy has never scored 50 points in a season yet. If he can get up to around 55 points per season, we should be happy with that. Then hope Stepan can get over 60 points this season (maybe even close to 65 points), which is possible since he had 57 last season, and we are moving in the right direction.
 
yeah I agree, it's apples to oranges, but the Islanders have JT at a bargain for the next 4 years. In a cap space world, contracts 5 million and up, put pressure on the player to perform. I will lower expectations to 60 -65 pts., but I do think he needs to get there.
 
No doubt the Isles have had a huge bargain in JT. That will change soon when his new deal has a cap hit of 9 mill or more per.

First step is Brass going over 50 points in a season, then we'll go from there.
 
i think people are forgetting how valuable he was for us on that post season run, definitely was clutch in many games, i actually feel brassard is better then stepan, brassard has better vision and more net presence , he has more upside.... he was very injury prone in CLB and it set him back, he is solid and def happy hes here.
 
Stepan plays this season at 24. His WORST season was 45 points. He also had 21 goals that season. He had 57 points this past season, his best season.
Brassard plays this season at 27. His BEST season was 47 points 4 seasons ago. His max is 18 goals in a season.

So yes if you 100% throw out stats and age, Brassard is better we agree.

I won't sit here and say Brassard couldn't be better in the future, if I could see the future I'd be a rich man, but nothing I have seen thus far says Brass is better than Stepan or will be better than Stepan. It could happen, anything could happen, but today to say that would simply be a shot in the dark at best. Right now if you use stats as a guide AND factor in that at 3 years younger in theory Stepan will grow more, than I would give Stepan the clear edge. You guys can decide which way to go on that.

With that said, I don't want to turn this into a Stepan versus Brassard thread, and I am very happy with this deal. We brought out 4 UFA years from Brassard at a reasonable 5 mill per. Many said he would be at 5.5 per to buy out a few UFA seasons, and we got 4 for 5 mill. Solid deal IMO.
 
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wow, what a shit deal. Brassard is nowhere near worth $5M. Terrible. With such bloated contract, he's not even a good trade piece anymore.
 
I may be in the minority here, and I hope Brass proves me wrong, but I think this is a bad deal.

First off, I dont really buy the whole "upside" argument. He's entering his 8th season in the NHL. When the season starts he'll be 27 years old. I think that's enough of a sample size to know what kind of player you're getting.

In his 7 seasons, Brassard has never hit 20 goals. Never hit 50 points. Was getting some quality minutes in Columbus and played with Nash, and got demoted for lack of production. Here, he has been nothing but a 3rd C. He might have skill, but skill doesnt automatically equal production.

Brassard has shown that on a good team he can be a higher end 3rd center. He has shown nothing that makes me thing he can be a good 2nd C on a good team. I dont think paying him like a 2nd C automatically makes him one.

Hopefully he proves me wrong, but anything less than 20 goals and 55 points out of him next year and we're in trouble with this deal.
 
theProdigy223 said:
I may be in the minority here, and I hope Brass proves me wrong, but I think this is a bad deal.

First off, I dont really buy the whole "upside" argument. He's entering his 8th season in the NHL. When the season starts he'll be 27 years old. I think that's enough of a sample size to know what kind of player you're getting.

In his 7 seasons, Brassard has never hit 20 goals. Never hit 50 points. Was getting some quality minutes in Columbus and played with Nash, and got demoted for lack of production. Here, he has been nothing but a 3rd C. He might have skill, but skill doesnt automatically equal production.

Brassard has shown that on a good team he can be a higher end 3rd center. He has shown nothing that makes me thing he can be a good 2nd C on a good team. I dont think paying him like a 2nd C automatically makes him one.

Hopefully he proves me wrong, but anything less than 20 goals and 55 points out of him next year and we're in trouble with this deal.
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This is exactly what I think as well. I think he would have gotten mid to high 4's from the arbitrator. I know we bought out a good amount of UFA from him, so that drives the price up, but he IS going to need to be consistently in the 50-60 point range to justify this deal....not sure I see that coming from him based on his work to date....
 
Here is the deal though guys, and I do agree with you all on the upside thing as I mentioned above, as a UFA next summer he would get this deal and more no doubt in my mind. He would get a 4 year 20 mill deal, see Pouliot's deal at 4 mill per for 5 seasons, and Brass is clearly better. So he is not overpaid in the big picture. I actually think he would have gotten more than 4/20 as a UFA next season.

So in that context I think this was a solid deal. I do think Brass will go 17-20 goals and low 50's points per season. That is solid. In the NHL today that is worth 5 mill per as a UFA. So I do think we got good value on the contract.

Now on the flip side I could see someone saying pass on bringing Brass back past this upcoming season and use that money elsewhere, but the contract itself is no doubt in my mind good value for us. And if we did let Brass walk after this season we better have a plan in place. Maybe it would have been to sign a C for 7/8 mill or so per that is more of a true # 1 C.

So I could see someone saying that is what they would have done, but the Brass deal on its own is good value I believe.
 
And thanks to Brassard's awful deal, Stepan is now giddy waiting for next year to really cash in. If Brassard can get $5M without ever hitting 50pts, Step is going to be looking $6-7M.

Awful, just awful. This is the type of deal the Oilers make.
 
I remember when Henrique signed his deal the uproar about what a bad contract it was, and this is way worse. Henrique is almost 3yrs younger and better and costs less.

If the "hope" is that our $5M center gives us 50-55pts, it speaks at how overpaid he is. It also means we'd have once again Stepan and Brassard as our top 2 centers, with neither being a #1 and only Stepan being a real #2.

Just awful.
 
The way the NHL is now 31. This is how it works. Now I agree we could have signed him for this season only and then let him walk next summer and focused on signing a big C for 7 mill or so, but Brassard's contract is not crazy for the NHL today. He would have gotten this deal and more as a UFA next summer IMO.

As for Stepan, remember he will be 25 only next July, so still worth a two year arbitration award, so he may not get his 6 mill per next summer. He may end up in the mid 5's for 4 or 5 years, unless he goes for like 65 + points this season.

And for the record, I do hear you on Brassard. In no way do I think it is crazy for someone not to like this deal, I can totally see someone not liking it. All I am saying is no doubt he gets this deal, and I think maybe more, next summer as a UFA. You can certainly say that is fine but I don't want my team paying it.

Dubi, who is 1.5 years older just got a deal with a 5.85 mill cap hit. Brassard is worth in the 5's, and we got him for 5. Dubi does have 54 and 50 point seasons, but outside of those seasons never broke 44 points. Pretty comparable players right now, Dubi gets the edge but not by a mile, when you factor in Brass is 1.5 years younger.

In his career Dubi is at .568 points per game. Brass is at .558 points per game. Again, at 1.5 years younger that is very comparable, and maybe even edge Brass due to age. And we also know Brass has done well in the playoffs since he has been here.

This is a deal he gets, and maybe more, next summer for sure in my humble opinion.
 
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I'm with you chuck. For 1 year not happy with this but for 5 years at 5 per more than reasonable in todays nhl where numbers are skyrocketing. With the cap set to take a good jump upward the next 2 years this contract will not be a killer and we have a young center for 5 years in his prime with a year of av's system under his belt and should only get better. Also buys out the 4 years of ufa which there is a price to do so. Would have been great to get 5 yrs for 4 but thats not realistic and looking at next years center free agents you have spezza and krejci and little else and both will either be resigned with current teams or go 7 plus. The salary that is hurting us is nash at 7.8 with the production value much lower who needs to step up and produce. Everybody we needed signed is signed and moore will be shortly. I anticipate a multi-year with zucc sometime after new years so the big question to me now is what slats decides to do with staal. I hope they can sign him longterm also but I anticipate that will also be a decision after january when they see if he will physically hold up and how he's playing. I don't see a staal trade unless they've already decided the they will not be resigning him. Glad sather somewhat controlled himself this season not gorging himself on a lot of these overpriced free agents and outside of maybe glass for a few dollars less I think with some youth added to the team for next season we will be ready to go.
 
Dubi is better, plays a physical game, provides intangibles and is even captain material. Brassard is now an overpaid 3rd line C.

Sather screwed up with this deal. Brassard is simply not that good.
 
31, I liked dubi when he was here also and agree he is a much more physical player but don't see where the giant difference in their abilities are now. The last couple of years dubs had 10 and 16 goals and 34 and 50 points and brass had 16 and 18 goals and 41 and 45 points pretty much the same. And for that dubs is gonna be paid and extra 850,000 per year. I think in the long run the rangers make out ok with this deal.
 
.568 points per game in his career for Dubi. .558 points per game in his career for Brass. Brass is 1.5 years younger. Brass has done really well here in the playoffs. The numbers are what they are. I think Dubi is a little better also, but the numbers show what they show, and Brass is younger. And Dubi's cap hit is 850 K more than Brassard's cap hit.

Is what it is.
 
Dubi's value to the team cannot be measured purely in pts, as he does all the other things already mentioned. Brassard, on the other hand, offers nothing other than the stat sheet. BTW, i also happen to think Dubi is a bit overpaid, but Brassard is way overpaid.

We filled the #2 C position with a $5M player who can't even hit 50pts. We are basically confirmed to be weak at C next year.
 
I am with you bro, I think Dubi is better also as I said despite the #'s, but I think it does show that in today's NHL Brassard's deal is just not crazy or way out of line.

We'll see how it goes I guess.
 
There are a lot of bad contracts out there (Weiss' contract with DET is LOL bad) but that doesn't mean we should do what others are doing. It wouldn't have been that hard to replace 45pts next year. Legwand just signed for 2yrs @ 3M/yr cap hit, for example. Just poor roster/cap management by Sather taking the easy way out.
 
I think Step and Brass would both benefit by putting on 5 - 10 lbs. of muscle. Both skilled, but I believe need to be harder to separate from puck. Hopefully there in the gym as I type. They both have at best average speed, so need to be able to fend off checkers a little better. They are going to be our top 2 centers this year so they need to put the work in over the summer. A sub-par year by either of them will hurt our chances of making the playoffs
 
Bottom line is that if Brass puts up the extra 10-12 points or so, like we expect him to, then this is a good deal.

If he puts up 10 points less than this past year, its a pretty bad deal.

Only time will tell.....
 
Would rather have brassard at 27 than leg wand at 33. And while we can have a team of spare parts that make less for a year or 2 at a time I'd rather see a team built from younger core players that will be here for a while. I think sather and groton has done a good job this offseason losing guys that are very replaceable and keeping the ones we wanted to go forward with. The only one that signed for a reasonable contract was boyle but he left because he wants to play on one of the top 3 lines for tampa which he wasn't going to be able to do here. I think the way sather and groton have gone about the offseason and I think its probably more groton than sather calling the shots behind the curtain tells me they are confident we have some youngsters that are going to take spots and add to the team this season and if their right to me thats the best way to go. Can't wait for camp and the preseason to start already
 
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