1 more alternate fuel idea

[Thoth]

The global cooling/global warming thread turned into a discussion of potential alternate energy forms.

So, I decided to start another thread about what may be the the best one. Natural Gas. Specifically, gas to liquid.

The exploration & "harvesting" is already taking place as is the infastructre. I've seen Natural gas powered vehicles already in place here in Utah.

http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/..._gas_to_li.html

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=g...lternate+energy

http://www.shell.com/us/realenergy

http://www.hubbertpeak.com/youngquist/altenergy.htm

My caveat is I have to do more research but am interested in your opinions.

 

[Denny Crane]

There's a coal to liquid gas technology being worked on, too.

The infrastructure for anything BUT normal gasoline isn't there at all. It's one thing to have a fleet of natural gas vehicles (like buses or public service vehicles) and have a big tank of gas at the massive parking lot where they all go every day.

If you had a car that ran on propane, you might find a few gas stations out there that refill tanks for bbq grills, but that's a real hit/miss proposition to find one convenient to get your regular fillups.

 

[Thoth]

I have read about XTL where they can "convert" almost anything to a diesel fuel.

IF they can have natural gas for public transportation then why can't they roll it out to the masses... pun intended. Its not like the government would be holding out on us, would they? ROFL.

 

[Thoth]

I started this another alternate energy thread and the economics behind them. So, let me go off on a tangent.

I keep hearing how the weak dollar is part of the rising cost of energy. Can someone please explain to me how exactly that works.

What do y'all think of a global price for the cost of gas i.e equalizing so you pay the same whether you are in Utah, India, or France?

Last night, Jim Cramer mentioned that Brazil willingly went through 5 yrs of recession to become energy independent. He seemed skeptical that we here would do that. I am as well.

Its not feasible to go straight from Sugar cane to Ethanol like Brazil did but Cramer did imply that the sugar in junk food is a possible source. Talk about killing 2 birds w/ 1 stone. Reducing obesity & foreign oil dependence.

Thoughts?

 

[Denny Crane]

The value of the dollar in relation to other currencies represents a discount or a penalty.

As the value of the dollar goes down, our goods are cheaper for other nations to buy, and vice versa.

Cheap dollar is good for exports. It's good for encouraging foreign investment within our borders.

 

[Denny Crane]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blackadder @ Mar 14 2008, 07:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I have read about XTL where they can "convert" almost anything to a diesel fuel.

IF they can have natural gas for public transportation then why can't they roll it out to the masses... pun intended. Its not like the government would be holding out on us, would they? ROFL.</div>

It's the same problem we'd have if fuel cells were somehow feasbile. All the gas stations would need to be retrofitted to deliver hydrogen. It would literaly cost trillions of dollars to do so

To deliver natural gas? They'd need to make mass quantities of trucks to deliver it to the stations, or they'd have to dig up a lot of easements to run massive pipes to all the stations. Then they'd have to have meters and the equivalent of pumps installed everywhere.

 

[Thoth]

I get the relation between the dollar and trade.

In my initial research between a weak dollar & the price of oil, It has something to do with how Europe now uses both the dollar and euro to purchase and invest in this commodity. How a weak dollar affects supply & demand still eludes me.

Though, it doesn't surprise that supply and demand come into play in economics. lol.

 

[Denny Crane]

If the Arabs think the value of the dollar is $.90, they're going to sell us 90% of the oil per dollar that they used to.

If they think that the dollar will be $.90 tomorrow, they'd rather have Euros that are going to be worth $1.00 tomorrow.

Make sense?

 

[Thoth]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Mar 16 2008, 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If the Arabs think the value of the dollar is $.90, they're going to sell us 90% of the oil per dollar that they used to.

If they think that the dollar will be $.90 tomorrow, they'd rather have Euros that are going to be worth $1.00 tomorrow.

Make sense?</div>

Yes. It does. Thanks.

I actually have <u>Investing for dummies</u>, <u>Economics for dummies</u>, & <u>the complete Idiots guide to MBA basics</u> sitting on my shelf virtually unread.... they are so boring.

 

[lukewarmplay]

The option that will likely happen is that once gas prices hit somewhere above $4 per gallon, it's economically feasible to just gasify coal- and Denny's right, there's already the infrastructure for it, plus there's so much more coal than oil. There's enough coal to last in that form at current use levels for at least hundreds of years. And you wouldn't have to worry about CO2 emissions so much if they'd just get some technologies out there that suck it out from the atmosphere. The thing you would have to worry about is that coal mining is much more environmentally destructive than taking oil.

 

[Denny Crane]

The coal mines are already there, so I don't think things are going to get much worse.

The coal burning technology is scrubbers which cleans up the smoke before it gets into the air.

 

[Thoth]

Don't rule out Hydrogen, yet.

 

[Denny Crane]

^^^ It's 8 years since that article was written. Like Fermi said, "where is it?"

 

[Thoth]

Rome wasn't built in a day. You don't eat an elephant all at once. Patience, grasshopper.

Until, then... http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Inves...nThePlains.aspx

 

[Denny Crane]

sweet!

 

[Denny Crane]

Drill in ANWR!

Bald Eagle tastes like chicken

 

[Thoth]

There was a show on the History of Carbon recently on History Channel international. A Professor of Chemical Engineering @ Michigan St said, we are 10 to 15 yrs away from Hydrogen as a viable fuel.

The Hydrogen is produced by depriving algae of (I Believe) Nitrogen & Oxygen.

Lets gets started on the infastructre now so and invest our stimulus package wisely so we can go get a Honda FCX, BMW H7, or whatever GMC is currently working on.