40 Best Blazers - Sabonis at #20?!

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Public Defender

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http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2010/02/blazers_top_40_no_20_arvydas_s.html

I've only been a Blazer fan since the late '90s, so I'm a little biased. But the dilemma for me would've been whether Sabas was top 10 or top 5. #20 is way too low, in my opinion.

And who's above him? Damon Stoudamire? Kevin Duckworth? I know that Duck was a widely adored player and member of the community, but Sabas was the most skilled big man in the NBA for his entire career. And Stoudamire... that one I just don't get at all. Pippen being higher, I guess I can understand, but he was here for such a brief period, I have a hard time agreeing with that.

It's hard to overstate how important he was to those Blazer teams of the late '90s and early '00s.

In my book, Sabas is really only behind guys like Walton, Drexler... maybe a few others.
 
imagine if he hadn't wasted away his best years in Europe also
 
Must be a typo.

Supposed to be #2. :dunno:

Seriously, I give him the edge over Big Bill, and no other Blazer comes anywhere near those two.
 
Public Defender said:
Sabas was the most skilled big man in the NBA for his entire career.
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Karl Malone, Ewing, David Robinson, Mourning, Kemp, Rodman, Duncan, Olajuwon, Shaq, Brand, Garnett, Nowitzki...gotta be at least one in there.
 
Stoudamire at #19, ahead of players like Strickland, Sabonis and Randolph, is crazy.
 
I wish Arvydas would come back just to visit every couple of years. He'd be showered with adulation. He was the team's center of stability.
 
No way Duck should be above Sabonis. Sabonis should be top 15.
 
Minstrel said:
Stoudamire at #19, ahead of players like Strickland, Sabonis and Randolph, is crazy.
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well, look who made the fucking list, its Demon Sodamizer's butt buddy, J-Quick.

Quick probably wouldn't be around now if it wasn't for Demon leaking him "juicy tidbits" of bullshit in the late 90s/early 2000s.
 
jlprk said:
Karl Malone, Ewing, David Robinson, Mourning, Kemp, Rodman, Duncan, Olajuwon, Shaq, Brand, Garnett, Nowitzki...gotta be at least one in there.
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What are we counting as "skills"? Sabas is above all of those you listed in his passing ability. He was a 7'3" Jason Kidd. I can't think of a center who was his equal, even Vlade Divac. Also, considering his complete lack of vertical, he was an amazing rebounder.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
What are we counting as "skills"? Sabas is above all of those you listed in his passing ability. He was a 7'3" Jason Kidd. I can't think of a center who was his equal, even Vlade Divac. Also, considering his complete lack of vertical, he was an amazing rebounder.
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During their NBA career both Hakeem and Duncan showed more skills than Sabas. Sabas might have been great and creative - but let's not forget that both Duncan AND Hakeem averaged more assists per game than Sabas while playing a much longer career, even if you look at per-36 assists, Duncan's best years were better than Sabas's best years in this regard, and Hakeem was only a tenth behind.

I loved watching Sabas, but let's not be crazy here - if Sabas is the Jason Kidd of Centers - Duncan (based on his assist averages) is John Stockton and Hakeem was Big-O.

Things might have been different if we saw Sabas in his prime in the NBA (not to mention that Portland would probably have had 3 or 4 more trophies) - but as it was, you are selling Duncan and the Dream short.
 
Weird how Pippen declined to be interview for his piece. What's the reason for that.
 
I didn't know Stoudamire had become an assistant coach in Memphis. Kind of an odd fit. If I were running that team my first priority would be to replace him with a defensive-minded assistant coach.
 
The Arvydas Sabonis we were allowed to see in a Blazer uniform places him just about right. Now, if he would have come here after we drafted him? He'd be ranked higher than Bill Walton. He was the best center in the world before his leg injuries, hands down. People forget how athletic he was. If you want to see something remarkable, watch the 88 Olympics and see a skinny Sabas outrunning David Robinson down the court.

He was a 7'3" Larry Bird with athleticism.
 
maxiep said:
The Arvydas Sabonis we were allowed to see in a Blazer uniform places him just about right. Now, if he would have come here after we drafted him? He'd be ranked higher than Bill Walton. He was the best center in the world before his leg injuries, hands down. People forget how athletic he was. If you want to see something remarkable, watch the 88 Olympics and see a skinny Sabas outrunning David Robinson down the court.

He was a 7'3" Larry Bird with athleticism.
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This I agree with. Sabas in his prime would have been the greatest Blazer ever, but instead we got the shell of Arvydas (which was still pretty damn good).
 
andalusian said:
During their NBA career both Hakeem and Duncan showed more skills than Sabas. Sabas might have been great and creative - but let's not forget that both Duncan AND Hakeem averaged more assists per game than Sabas while playing a much longer career, even if you look at per-36 assists, Duncan's best years were better than Sabas's best years in this regard, and Hakeem was only a tenth behind.
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Assists aren't the only measure of skills.

Neither Hakeem nor Duncan had Sabas' shooting range (Sabas was a three-point threat for his entire career, neither Hakeem nor Duncan could make shots beyond 15 feet with any regularity). And neither Duncan nor Olajuwan had Sabas' free-throw percentage.

Hakeem and Duncan were both far more athletic than Sabas during Sabas' NBA career, and it's for that reason that I'd ackowledge that both of them were more effective NBA players. But I meant basketball skills - the combination of passing, shooting, rebounding, dribbling, team defense, basketball IQ - Sabas was better than both of those guys, if you ask me.
 
Bill Walton once said that Sabonis was the best player at 20 years old that he had ever seen outside of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.
 
Minstrel said:
Bill Walton once said that Sabonis was the best player at 20 years old that he had ever seen outside of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.
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Bill Walton also said that Greg Ostertag is one of the top centers on this planet... - so, take it with a grain of salt.
 
andalusian said:
Bill Walton also said that Greg Ostertag is one of the top centers on this planet... - so, take it with a grain of salt.
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He was...consider how many people are on the planet, even if you constrain it to those who play basketball. The fact that Ostertag made the NBA and had a reasonably long career shows he was one of the top centers on the planet. "One of the top on the planet" is actually a lesser claim than "one of the top centers in the NBA."

It's easier to be among "the top" when compared against a larger pool, with many more inferior talents in it. ;)
 
andalusian said:
During their NBA career both Hakeem and Duncan showed more skills than Sabas. Sabas might have been great and creative - but let's not forget that both Duncan AND Hakeem averaged more assists per game than Sabas while playing a much longer career, even if you look at per-36 assists, Duncan's best years were better than Sabas's best years in this regard, and Hakeem was only a tenth behind.
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Yes, but I've watched both and Duncan's are boring and efficient, while Sabas's were behind the back pinpoint bounce passes in traffic. Sabas would've averaged a lot more if his recipients hadn't been so startled they tended to bobble them.

Duncan's great, no question, but he doesn't have the amazing vision that Sabas had.

(Olajuwon's skills in low-post moves outclassed everyone ever, but he couldn't pass like Sabas either.)

I loved watching Sabas, but let's not be crazy here - if Sabas is the Jason Kidd of Centers - Duncan (based on his assist averages) is John Stockton and Hakeem was Big-O.
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I wouldn't mind that: Kidd's the flashier passer - Stockton was very meat-and-potatoes. Plus he had Karl Malone to pass to (Kidd had... Kenyon Martin?) and a stat-keeper who ridiculously inflated his totals.
 
maxiep said:
The Arvydas Sabonis we were allowed to see in a Blazer uniform places him just about right. Now, if he would have come here after we drafted him? He'd be ranked higher than Bill Walton. He was the best center in the world before his leg injuries, hands down. People forget how athletic he was. If you want to see something remarkable, watch the 88 Olympics and see a skinny Sabas outrunning David Robinson down the court.
He was a 7'3" Larry Bird with athleticism.
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Observe:

Pre-Injury Sabas
 
Public Defender said:
http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2010/02/blazers_top_40_no_20_arvydas_s.html

I've only been a Blazer fan since the late '90s, so I'm a little biased. But the dilemma for me would've been whether Sabas was top 10 or top 5. #20 is way too low, in my opinion.

And who's above him? Damon Stoudamire? Kevin Duckworth? I know that Duck was a widely adored player and member of the community, but Sabas was the most skilled big man in the NBA for his entire career. And Stoudamire... that one I just don't get at all. Pippen being higher, I guess I can understand, but he was here for such a brief period, I have a hard time agreeing with that.

It's hard to overstate how important he was to those Blazer teams of the late '90s and early '00s.

In my book, Sabas is really only behind guys like Walton, Drexler... maybe a few others.
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You overvalue Sabonis. Yes, he could shoot threes (not remarkably), free throws (good for a big man), and make creative passes, but you know.. Shaq made great passes too and Shaq killed Sabonis in the playoffs. Duncan is more skilled as well. Look up Game 6 of the 2003 NBA Finals. Now THAT is a display of skills! And in a title clinching game!

Sabonis averaged 12 ppg, 7 rpg, 2 apg, and 1 bpg in his career.

In the most important game of his NBA career (Game 7 of the 2000 WCF), he scored 6 points (2 of 6 shooting), grabbed 5 rebounds, dished out 3 assists, had 1 steal and no blocks in 33 minutes.

It's not an accident that he was never an All Star.

He was a fine player, yes, but Top 5? nooooooo. Top 10? absolutely not. #20? Makes sense.
 
KingSpeed said:
You overvalue Sabonis....

It's not an accident that he was never an All Star.
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Right. I'll be sure to rank him right behind Yi Jianling on the all-time list of international players, too, right?

As for how Sabas played in important games, let's just agree that the Blazers wouldn't have been sniffing the WCF in '99 or '00 without Arvydas.

And do you agree that Stoudamire belongs ahead of him?
 
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