7 Months After Stimulus 49 of 50 States Have Lost Jobs

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Denny Crane

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http://www.republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=150826

7 Months After Stimulus 49 of 50 States Have Lost Jobs

The table below compares the White House's February 2009 projection of the number of jobs that would be created by the 2009 stimulus law (through the end of 2010) with the actual change in state payroll employment through September 2009 (the latest figures available). According to the data, 49 States and the District of Columbia have lost jobs since stimulus was enacted. Only North Dakota has seen net job creation following the February 2009 stimulus. While President Obama claimed the result of his stimulus bill would be the creation of 3.5 million jobs, the Nation has already lost a total of 2.7 million – a difference of 6.2 million jobs. To see how stimulus has failed your state, see the table below.

See the link.
 
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...ministration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Wednesday shows that 27% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Forty percent (40%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -13. That’s just a point above the lowest level ever recorded for this President. It’s also the sixth straight day in negative double digits, matching the longest such streak (see trends).

Just 31% of voters believe that Congress has a good understanding of the health care proposal.

Thirty-nine percent (39%) of Republicans have a favorable opinion of their party’s national chairman, Michael Steele.

The Presidential Approval Index is calculated by subtracting the number who Strongly Disapprove from the number who Strongly Approve. It is updated daily at 9:30 a.m. Eastern (sign up for free daily e-mail update). Updates also available on Twitter and Facebook.

Overall, 47% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the President's performance. Fifty-three percent (53%) disapprove.
 
Here's that Barfosky guy again.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20091021/D9BFFSOG0.html

Bailout watchdog expects much to remain unrefunded


WASHINGTON (AP) - The man who watches over the $700 billion in government money given to banks and other institutions to avert a financial collapse said Wednesday he thinks it's too early to say how much will be repaid to the taxpayers.

Just as the Obama administration prepares to announce a new TARP-like program for small community banks, Inspector General Neil Barofsky said he believes that "it's unrealistic to think we're going to get all of that money back."

The Treasury Department has spent more than $454 billion through TARP programs. Forty-seven recipients have paid back nearly $73 billion. That means more than $317 billion remains outstanding with the program set to expire Dec. 31.

Later Wednesday, President Barack Obama is expected to announce the community bank assistance effort. The American Bankers' Association has asked for $5 billion in rescue-fund money to help small banks extend more loans.

Asked on a nationally broadcast interview how he would grade the program, Barofsky said, "I think right now it would have to be an incomplete." Barofsky did say the program was successful in "pulling us back" from a financial collapse, however. At the same time, he told CBS's "The Early Show" that the resumption of huge executive bonus payments by some of the same institutions that benefited from the government bailout has sown distrust and cynicism among many taxpayers.

The mixed and blunt assessment came as the Obama administration takes steps to wind down and refocus the Wall Street rescue effort. Barofsky's conclusions were in a quarterly report scheduled for release later Wednesday.

An administration official said Tuesday that the bailout effort's signature initiative - a capital purchase program that aimed to inject $218 billion into banks - would effectively wrap up at the end of the year.

But even as the administration aimed to refocus the massive Troubled Asset Relief Program on small businesses and homeowners, Barofsky said in his report that the effort to save the nation's financial sector came at great cost to taxpayers, to the integrity of the financial system and to the public's perception of the federal government.

"Despite the aspects of TARP that could reasonably be viewed as a substantial success," he wrote, "Treasury's actions in this regard have contributed to damage the credibility of the program and of the government itself, and the anger, cynicism and distrust created must be chalked up as one of the substantial, albeit unnecessary, costs of TARP."

Barofsky said public suspicion was fed by Treasury's decision not to require banks to report how they used their rescue money and its "less-than-accurate" statements describing the financial condition of nine large banks that benefited from large infusions of aid. The TARP program began under the administration of President George W. Bush and has expanded under Obama.

The administration official, speaking on the condition of anonymity because the details had not yet been made public, said the Treasury Department plans to cap two TARP programs at levels below initial projections. A program designed to rid big banks of their bad assets will spend $30 billion instead of $75 billion. Another that supports a Federal Reserve effort to ease bank credit will top off at $30 billion instead of $80 billion. A new initiative aimed at banks - the Capital Assistance Program - had no applicants and will also end, the official said.

The overall TARP program has come under criticism in Congress from across the political spectrum. Liberals maintain the program needs to shift its focus from big financial firms to small businesses and homeowners. Conservatives insist the program has been an unnecessary intrusion into the financial sector and should end swiftly.

In his report, Barofsky credited the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department for adopting some of his accountability recommendations over the past several months. But he said several of his agency's proposals for greater transparency have gone unheeded.

The report describes a patchwork of initiatives carried out under the TARP umbrella - some designed to assist the biggest of Wall Street institutions, others to bail out the struggling auto industry and yet others to help homeowners struggling to stave off foreclosure.

Even within those programs, Barofsky found inconsistent attempts to hold recipients of the bailout accountable to taxpayers.
 
Go North Dakota!! Come on guys get jobs here and come visit me! The weather is great!
 
Obama made the error of expecting the banks to act like grateful Americans and use the stimulus $ for what it was intended.

They have not done that at all. They have simply pocketed it.
 
Obama made the error of expecting the banks to act like grateful Americans and use the stimulus $ for what it was intended.

They have not done that at all. They have simply pocketed it.

They bought up the other banks and paid out big salaries.
 
Obama made the error of expecting the banks to act like grateful Americans and use the stimulus $ for what it was intended.
My God, if you are right, that is one HUGE MISTAKE!! I'd say it shows a lot of naivete on Obama's part.
 
Obama made the error of expecting the banks to act like grateful Americans and use the stimulus $ for what it was intended.

They have not done that at all. They have simply pocketed it.

I wonder if they had simply given the money to us (the citizens), if it would have been put to better use.
 
I wonder if they had simply given the money to us (the citizens), if it would have been put to better use.

Even if it was stupid spending it'd still help the economy.

What they did was, few bankers got millions (hundreds of millions actually) and the population got more speeches by Mr. Obama.
 
Here's that Barfosky guy again.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20091021/D9BFFSOG0.html

Bailout watchdog expects much to remain unrefunded


WASHINGTON (AP) - The man who watches over the $700 billion in government money given to banks and other institutions to avert a financial collapse said Wednesday he thinks it's too early to say how much will be repaid to the taxpayers.

Just as the Obama administration prepares to announce a new TARP-like program for small community banks, Inspector General Neil Barofsky said he believes that "it's unrealistic to think we're going to get all of that money back."

The Treasury Department has spent more than $454 billion through TARP programs. Forty-seven recipients have paid back nearly $73 billion. That means more than $317 billion remains outstanding with the program set to expire Dec. 31.

Later Wednesday, President Barack Obama is expected to announce the community bank assistance effort. The American Bankers' Association has asked for $5 billion in rescue-fund money to help small banks extend more loans.

Asked on a nationally broadcast interview how he would grade the program, Barofsky said, "I think right now it would have to be an incomplete." Barofsky did say the program was successful in "pulling us back" from a financial collapse, however. At the same time, he told CBS's "The Early Show" that the resumption of huge executive bonus payments by some of the same institutions that benefited from the government bailout has sown distrust and cynicism among many taxpayers.

The mixed and blunt assessment came as the Obama administration takes steps to wind down and refocus the Wall Street rescue effort. Barofsky's conclusions were in a quarterly report scheduled for release later Wednesday.

An administration official said Tuesday that the bailout effort's signature initiative - a capital purchase program that aimed to inject $218 billion into banks - would effectively wrap up at the end of the year.

But even as the administration aimed to refocus the massive Troubled Asset Relief Program on small businesses and homeowners, Barofsky said in his report that the effort to save the nation's financial sector came at great cost to taxpayers, to the integrity of the financial system and to the public's perception of the federal government.

"Despite the aspects of TARP that could reasonably be viewed as a substantial success," he wrote, "Treasury's actions in this regard have contributed to damage the credibility of the program and of the government itself, and the anger, cynicism and distrust created must be chalked up as one of the substantial, albeit unnecessary, costs of TARP."

Barofsky said public suspicion was fed by Treasury's decision not to require banks to report how they used their rescue money and its "less-than-accurate" statements describing the financial condition of nine large banks that benefited from large infusions of aid. The TARP program began under the administration of President George W. Bush and has expanded under Obama.

The administration official, speaking on the condition of anonymity because the details had not yet been made public, said the Treasury Department plans to cap two TARP programs at levels below initial projections. A program designed to rid big banks of their bad assets will spend $30 billion instead of $75 billion. Another that supports a Federal Reserve effort to ease bank credit will top off at $30 billion instead of $80 billion. A new initiative aimed at banks - the Capital Assistance Program - had no applicants and will also end, the official said.

The overall TARP program has come under criticism in Congress from across the political spectrum. Liberals maintain the program needs to shift its focus from big financial firms to small businesses and homeowners. Conservatives insist the program has been an unnecessary intrusion into the financial sector and should end swiftly.

In his report, Barofsky credited the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department for adopting some of his accountability recommendations over the past several months. But he said several of his agency's proposals for greater transparency have gone unheeded.

The report describes a patchwork of initiatives carried out under the TARP umbrella - some designed to assist the biggest of Wall Street institutions, others to bail out the struggling auto industry and yet others to help homeowners struggling to stave off foreclosure.

Even within those programs, Barofsky found inconsistent attempts to hold recipients of the bailout accountable to taxpayers.

TARP was necessary; the "stimulus" wasn't. Where Congress messed up with TARP is that they didn't concomitantly re-enact Glass-Steagall to break up these behemoths. We had to bail the banks out because they became "too big to fail", yet we made the winners even bigger.
 
Go North Dakota!! Come on guys get jobs here and come visit me! The weather is great!

dpc, your avatar of Jesus the Pedophile Bowler is the same avatar I have on the RealGM forums.
 
All result of corrupt govt and corrupt wall street.

:(

The vast majority of people working in the banking world are earnest, honest and hard working. It is capitalism at its most Darwinian. There are certainly some bad apples, but to smear everyone who works in finance is addressing the problem with too blunt an instrument.
 
I would have been interested to see if the stimulus would have worked if it were actually used to stimulate the economy from the get-go with all those "shovel-ready" projects we heard about. Instead, most of the funds are being withheld until next year to help Democrats in their election campaigns by having them "bring home the bacon".

Fucking shameful.
 
http://www.republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=150826

7 Months After Stimulus 49 of 50 States Have Lost Jobs

The table below compares the White House's February 2009 projection of the number of jobs that would be created by the 2009 stimulus law (through the end of 2010) with the actual change in state payroll employment through September 2009 (the latest figures available). According to the data, 49 States and the District of Columbia have lost jobs since stimulus was enacted. Only North Dakota has seen net job creation following the February 2009 stimulus. While President Obama claimed the result of his stimulus bill would be the creation of 3.5 million jobs, the Nation has already lost a total of 2.7 million – a difference of 6.2 million jobs. To see how stimulus has failed your state, see the table below.

See the link.

That's shockingly bad analysis. Obama claimed that the stimulus bill would create jobs, not that it would result in a net gain in jobs for the economy overall. There is a difference.

If I hire 10 people and Denny Crane lays off 15 people, I've created 10 jobs, but unemployment has gone up by 5. If I hadn't created those 10 jobs, though, unemployment would have gone up by 15.

Now, Denny, it is time for you to trot out the predictions of unemployment rates from February and try once again to pretend that those predictions prove that the stimulus package cost the country jobs.

barfo
 
That's shockingly bad analysis. Obama claimed that the stimulus bill would create jobs, not that it would result in a net gain in jobs for the economy overall. There is a difference.

If I hire 10 people and Denny Crane lays off 15 people, I've created 10 jobs, but unemployment has gone up by 5. If I hadn't created those 10 jobs, though, unemployment would have gone up by 15.

Now, Denny, it is time for you to trot out the predictions of unemployment rates from February and try once again to pretend that those predictions prove that the stimulus package cost the country jobs.

barfo

You can't prove that Obama's created one private sector job.

Your line of reasoning echoes Obama's, and when he says these things, he's ridiculed by top economists.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124451592762396883.html

"Saved or created" has become the signature phrase for Barack Obama as he describes what his stimulus is doing for American jobs. His latest invocation came yesterday, when the president declared that the stimulus had already saved or created at least 150,000 American jobs -- and announced he was ramping up some of the stimulus spending so he could "save or create" an additional 600,000 jobs this summer. These numbers come in the context of an earlier Obama promise that his recovery plan will "save or create three to four million jobs over the next two years."

Mr. Fratto sees a double standard at play. "We would never have used a formula like 'save or create,'" he tells me. "To begin with, the number is pure fiction -- the administration has no way to measure how many jobs are actually being 'saved.' And if we had tried to use something this flimsy, the press would never have let us get away with it."

Of course, the inability to measure Mr. Obama's jobs formula is part of its attraction. Never mind that no one -- not the Labor Department, not the Treasury, not the Bureau of Labor Statistics -- actually measures "jobs saved." As the New York Times delicately reports, Mr. Obama's jobs claims are "based on macroeconomic estimates, not an actual counting of jobs." Nice work if you can get away with it.

This bit is quite good:

"The expression 'create or save,' which has been used regularly by the President and his economic team, is an act of political genius," writes Mr. Mankiw. "You can measure how many jobs are created between two points in time. But there is no way to measure how many jobs are saved. Even if things get much, much worse, the President can say that there would have been 4 million fewer jobs without the stimulus."

Mr. Obama's comments yesterday are a perfect illustration of just such a claim. In the months since Congress approved the stimulus, our economy has lost nearly 1.6 million jobs and unemployment has hit 9.4%. Invoke the magic words, however, and -- presto! -- you have the president claiming he has "saved or created" 150,000 jobs. It all makes for a much nicer spin, and helps you forget this is the same team that only a few months ago promised us that passing the stimulus would prevent unemployment from rising over 8%.

And before you trot out the "shoot the messenger" routine, there's this:

It's not only former Bush staffers such as Messrs. Fratto and Mankiw who have noted the political convenience here. During a March hearing of the Senate Finance Committee, Chairman Max Baucus challenged Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner on the formula.

"You created a situation where you cannot be wrong," said the Montana Democrat. "If the economy loses two million jobs over the next few years, you can say yes, but it would've lost 5.5 million jobs. If we create a million jobs, you can say, well, it would have lost 2.5 million jobs. You've given yourself complete leverage where you cannot be wrong, because you can take any scenario and make yourself look correct."

That would be the same Max Baucus who produced the health care bill you'll certainly argue for without reading or understanding it.

Another good read from a far left wing source:

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/10/13-4
 
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dpc, your avatar of Jesus the Pedophile Bowler is the same avatar I have on the RealGM forums.

What exactly does that say about us? We love jesus? We love pedophiles? We love bowlers?
 
http://www.republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=150826

7 Months After Stimulus 49 of 50 States Have Lost Jobs

The table below compares the White House's February 2009 projection of the number of jobs that would be created by the 2009 stimulus law (through the end of 2010) with the actual change in state payroll employment through September 2009 (the latest figures available). According to the data, 49 States and the District of Columbia have lost jobs since stimulus was enacted. Only North Dakota has seen net job creation following the February 2009 stimulus. While President Obama claimed the result of his stimulus bill would be the creation of 3.5 million jobs, the Nation has already lost a total of 2.7 million – a difference of 6.2 million jobs. To see how stimulus has failed your state, see the table below.

See the link.

The only reason North Dakota didn't lose jobs is that they discovered a new way to extract oil from the Bakken zone and there is an oil boom there. It has nothing to do with the stimulus. I was born in the county with the most drilling, but alas, I own no land there.:dunno:
 
You can't prove that Obama's created one private sector job.

Oh, nonsense. That's just obviously silly on the face of it. The only way the government could spend 787 billion and not create any jobs is to wire the money directly to a swiss bank account.

Here's an article from my local paper from a few days ago:

In all, the spending accounts for the equivalent of 8,238 full-time jobs, according to the state's report, which was delivered to federal authorities over the weekend. Of those, more than 6,000 were in education and public safety. Fewer than 2,000 were in the private sector.

Now, if they'd meant zero, they probably would have said that, rather than "fewer than 2000", don't you think?

All of the rest of your post amounts to saying that there is a difference between job creation and unemployment, which is what I said in my previous post. Of course there is.

And yes, it is hard or impossible to measure "jobs saved", and that allows politicians to say what they want - on both sides.

barfo
 
Oh, nonsense. That's just obviously silly on the face of it. The only way the government could spend 787 billion and not create any jobs is to wire the money directly to a swiss bank account.

Here's an article from my local paper from a few days ago:



Now, if they'd meant zero, they probably would have said that, rather than "fewer than 2000", don't you think?

All of the rest of your post amounts to saying that there is a difference between job creation and unemployment, which is what I said in my previous post. Of course there is.

And yes, it is hard or impossible to measure "jobs saved", and that allows politicians to say what they want - on both sides.

barfo

You can't argue with jobs created (a positive number). Doesn't seem to be the goal.

$787B could keep 787B people employed at $1 per year. Or it could keep 1 person employed at $787B per year. Or something in between, like keeping the existing bankers employed at really high paychecks and bonuses.

You might be able to argue that Obama saved or created some jobs if he predicted "$787B in spending and unemployment will be 8% by the end of the year" and unemployment actually turned out to be 8%.

Quite the opposite is true. He predicted the 8% figure, but we're at ~10%. Either he lied or his plan failed. Pick one.


And like I've always posted - if the money actually went to things that were designed to stimulate the economy (instead of pork barrel spending), I might consider that $787B in stimulus just wasn't enough.

It is very unfortunate that the partisans spent their wad all at once at the beginning with the blatant intent of delivering cash to only their likely voters well down the line (2 years) during the next big election cycle. Unfortunate because real people on main street are suffering for it (lack of job, foreclosures).
 
The vast majority of people working in the banking world are earnest, honest and hard working. It is capitalism at its most Darwinian. There are certainly some bad apples, but to smear everyone who works in finance is addressing the problem with too blunt an instrument.

True, but it only takes a few bad apples at the top to make a bad decision or gamble to cause a lot of financial strife.

I think the bank and bankers are a convenient target for people who don't want to take any accountability for living WAY beyond their means.
 
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http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i-95E_TCyqYX0CBZ5xQAV_V3VWyQD9BG76902

Romer: Impact of stimulus will level off
By JIM KUHNHENN (AP) – 8 hours ago

WASHINGTON — A top White House economist says spending from the $787 billion economic stimulus has already had its biggest impact on economic growth and will likely not contribute to significant expansion next year.

Christina Romer, the chair of President Barack Obama's Council of Economic Advisers, said Thursday that the $194 billion already spent gave a jolt to the economy that contributed to growth in the second and third quarters of the year. She told a congressional panel that by the middle of next year, the impact of the stimulus will level off. Romer said spending so far has saved or created 600,000 to 1.5 million jobs but warned that unemployment will remain high, above 9.5 percent, through the end of 2010.
 
A lot of those jobs created probably shouldn't have existed in the first place.
 
$787B / 1.5M = $524,666.67 cost per job.

How stupid are we taxpayers?

$787B / 600000 = $1,311,666.67 cost per job.

These are the same guys that are saying they can deliver efficient health care.

:lol:
 
A lot of those jobs created probably shouldn't have existed in the first place.

We know that about 10% of those "jobs" are temporary workers for the 2010 census.
 
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28586.html

Dems seek cover to boost debt limit

The Senate must soon increase the national debt limit to above $13 trillion — and Democrats are looking for political cover.

Knowing they will face unyielding GOP attacks for voting to increase the eye-popping debt, Democrats are considering attaching a debt increase provision to a must-pass bill, possibly the Defense Department spending bill, according to Democratic and Republican sources.

Adding it to the defense bill would allow Democrats to argue that they voted for the measure to help troops in harm’s way — and downplay that their vote also expanded the limit for how much money the country can borrow.

The strategy has not yet been finalized, aides and senators said. The House already approved a debt limit increase of $925 billion — above the $12.1 trillion ceiling Congress approved as part of the economic stimulus package last February — but Democrats may seek to increase the limit further so they don’t have to revisit the politically treacherous issue until after the 2010 midterm elections.

As of Tuesday, the debt stood at $11.95 trillion, staring at senators amid a roiling health care debate in which critics have seized on the potential costs of the overhaul. Unlike those of the House, the Senate’s rules do not allow it to automatically increase the debt with its adoption of the annual budget resolution. That puts senators in a tough position politically. And if the Senate balks at the increase, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner has warned that the slow economic recovery could collapse, as investors around the world would sharply lose confidence in America’s abilities to meet its credit obligations.

“This president inherited, in some ways, an economic fiasco,” said conservative Democratic Sen. Mary Landrieu of Louisiana. “It’s not going to be a pleasant vote, but it may be necessary until we can get back on track.”

Indeed, Democrats are quick to point out that President George W. Bush left President Barack Obama with a $10.6 trillion debt — and that the debt limit was increased seven times in the Republican’s eight years in the White House. But now Democrats are in charge of Congress and the White House; and the Treasury Department reported last week that the annual deficit for the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30 stood at a record $1.4 trillion, with that number likely to balloon under Obama’s policies.

With the debt limit about to be eclipsed, Republicans are eager to force Democrats to find the votes to increase it among themselves, putting the majority party in a lose-lose situation and searching for a way to minimize public backlash.

“Regardless of the political treachery, I’m more worried about the economic treachery and the monetary aspects of it with devaluing the dollar,” said Sen. Ben Nelson (D-Neb.).

Senate Budget Committee Chairman Kent Conrad (D-N.D.) and the committee’s ranking member, Sen. Judd Gregg (R-N.H.), both told POLITICO that appropriators may add the language to must-pass spending legislation.

Senate Finance Chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont.), whose committee is in charge of the debt increase, said “oh yeah, it’s a possibility” of adding the debt-ceiling increase to the spending legislation.

“I care less how it’s done so long as it is done,” Baucus said.

And Conrad said he wants any debt increase to be coupled with language that would create a “comprehensive” process to force Congress to begin making tough choices to cut the debt — something akin to legislation he and Gregg proposed that would establish a commission to study ways to cut the deficit, whose recommendations would be fast-tracked through Congress.

Sen. Evan Bayh of Indiana, a centrist Democrat, said he wouldn’t support an increase in the debt limit “unless there’s some mechanism to start getting the deficit under control.”

Bayh and nine other Democrats sent a letter to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) last week that called on Congress to approve a “special process” to control the deficit — warning that adding trillions more dollars to the country’s credit card could force a sharp rise in interest rates and cause the price of goods and services to decline while limiting the country’s ability to act on a range of pressing issues.

But if that language is attached to a stand-alone bill to increase the debt limit, the House would be forced to vote on the amended version — a vote that House Democratic leaders are eager to avoid. Folding a method to control the deficit — with an increase in the debt limit — into a much larger bill seems to be a more politically palatable solution, several aides said.

“Sen. Reid agrees about the importance of dealing with our long-term fiscal challenges and has been talking with Sen. Conrad, the administration and others in the Democratic leadership about the best way to proceed,” said Jim Manley, senior communications adviser to Reid. “Those discussions are ongoing, and the administration is evaluating what they may want to recommend.”

Republicans are keenly aware that Democrats may try legislative maneuvering to avoid political fallout, with one senior GOP aide saying the defense appropriations route was under “active consideration.”

Three Republicans — Reps. Jerry Lewis and Buck McKeon of California and Rep. Bill Young of Florida — sent a letter to House Appropriations Committee Chairman Dave Obey (D-Wis.) and Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) Wednesday asking Democrats to keep the defense bill clean of extraneous items, including the D.C. Voting Rights Act and an increase in the national debt limit.

A spokesman for Obey, Ellis Brachman, said he “couldn’t speculate on what will be in the final defense appropriations package,” which is awaiting action by a House-Senate conference committee.

Rob Blumenthal, a spokesman for Senate Appropriations Committee Chairman Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii), declined to comment.

Since conference reports cannot be amended, the GOP wouldn’t be able to offer amendments to a debt ceiling increase if it’s added to the defense bill.

And GOP Senate leaders — who expect their 40 members to unite against the debt limit increase and force Democrats to find the necessary 60 votes on their own — are eager to have a protracted amendment process on the floor.

“My guess is that we will try to offer some amendments to [the increase] because I think it’ll be a good opportunity for us to have a debate on spending and borrowing, and that’s obviously a debate that we want to engage in,” said Sen. John Thune (R-S.D.), No. 4 in the GOP leadership.

Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine), the Senate’s biggest swing vote, said she was uncertain how she’d vote on a debt limit increase.

“You absolutely have to make government run,” she said, “but I have to look at it.”
 
You can't argue with jobs created (a positive number). Doesn't seem to be the goal.

No idea what you mean by that. You claim he didn't create a single job. I showed some evidence he did. Now you say I can't argue with that.

Quite the opposite is true. He predicted the 8% figure, but we're at ~10%. Either he lied or his plan failed. Pick one.

No, those aren't the only two possibilities. Seriously, that's some bad logic right there.

Another possibility is that the predictions were simply too optimistic, and that unemployment would have been even higher than 10% w/o the stimulus.

Now, personally, I'd guess he "lied". Not about the effects of the stimulus package, but about the projected unemployment rate. I'd guess he thought it was probable that unemployment would reach 10% or more (with the stimulus, and even higher w/o the stimulus), but that he intentionally low-balled the estimates so as to avoid being accused of "talking down" the economy. But that's just my guess.

barfo
 
No idea what you mean by that. You claim he didn't create a single job. I showed some evidence he did. Now you say I can't argue with that.



No, those aren't the only two possibilities. Seriously, that's some bad logic right there.

Another possibility is that the predictions were simply too optimistic, and that unemployment would have been even higher than 10% w/o the stimulus.

Now, personally, I'd guess he "lied". Not about the effects of the stimulus package, but about the projected unemployment rate. I'd guess he thought it was probable that unemployment would reach 10% or more (with the stimulus, and even higher w/o the stimulus), but that he intentionally low-balled the estimates so as to avoid being accused of "talking down" the economy. But that's just my guess.

barfo

1M net jobs is a positive number.

Those are not the only two possibilities. A third is they're incompetent top to bottom in the west wing.
 
1M net jobs is a positive number.

Agreed, but I don't see your point.

Those are not the only two possibilities. A third is they're incompetent top to bottom in the west wing.

Yes, that too is a possibility. Now you have successfully disproven your own assertion. Congratulations.

barfo
 

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