A Batum/Monroe trade that could actually make sense

[PtldPlatypus]

Batum/Freeland/Barton for Monroe/Jerebko/Singler

Of course, the trade machine indicates that it would make Detroit 11 wins worse this year due to Batum's miserable performance to date, although I don't know that that's possible.

As we all know, Monroe loses his bird rights if he is traded, so it would only make sense for Portland to deal for him if they could conceivably have cap space to re-sign him in the summer. This deal eliminates over $17M in 2015 contract obligations, and returns only expiring contracts. The remaining 2015 guarantees plus LA/Matthews/RoLo's cap holds would total 52.5M (which would include not picking up Blake's option, and waiving Kaman, leaving only the $1M guarantee). If Monroe chooses not to re-sign using whatever cap space we have, we could always keep Kaman; we would basically have the ability to choose between the two.

As for the current season, it would of course bring in another big to help stem the tide during Rolo's injury and would return Singler (currently 13th among SF's in TS%) to pair with Crabbe for the SF minutes. Basically--I don't think it hurts us. It does increase the frontcourt logjam--Claver would clearly be a better inclusion than Barton, if possible. Of course, there would also be the possibility of trying to trade Leonard+ for another guard, which could also serve to further reduce our 2015 cap obligations.

 

[RR7]

Even with his shooting struggles, I really dislike the idea of moving Batum in a lot of deals, but especially in one that brings us back something like Monroe. He gets minutes to his heart's desire right now. And then come February when Rolo is back...do we just drop Kaman from the rotation all together?

 

[Hobbesarable]

Batum/Freeland/Barton for Monroe/Jerebko/Singler

Of course, the trade machine indicates that it would make Detroit 11 wins worse this year due to Batum's miserable performance to date, although I don't know that that's possible.

As we all know, Monroe loses his bird rights if he is traded, so it would only make sense for Portland to deal for him if they could conceivably have cap space to re-sign him in the summer. This deal eliminates over $17M in 2015 contract obligations, and returns only expiring contracts. The remaining 2015 guarantees plus LA/Matthews/RoLo's cap holds would total 52.5M (which would include not picking up Blake's option, and waiving Kaman, leaving only the $1M guarantee). If Monroe chooses not to re-sign using whatever cap space we have, we could always keep Kaman; we would basically have the ability to choose between the two.

As for the current season, it would of course bring in another big to help stem the tide during Rolo's injury and would return Singler (currently 13th among SF's in TS%) to pair with Crabbe for the SF minutes. Basically--I don't think it hurts us. It does increase the frontcourt logjam--Claver would clearly be a better inclusion than Barton, if possible. Of course, there would also be the possibility of trying to trade Leonard+ for another guard, which could also serve to further reduce our 2015 cap obligations.

So, this trade would in effect put Crabbe into our starting rotation with Singler backing him up at the 3.

Monroe could come in and start in Rolo's absence. He would then become a primary 4/5 bench player once Rolo is back.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

So, this trade would in effect put Crabbe into our starting rotation with Singler backing him up at the 3.

Monroe could come in and start in Rolo's absence. He would then become a primary 4/5 bench player once Rolo is back.

That's about the long and short of it.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

Batum is worth more than the partial season we would get from Monroe. Teams with cap space would gladly take him next offseason. We would have the same ability to sign Monroe this summer too.

 

[Schilly]

Do the bird rights go away?

 

[KeepOnRollin]

Do the bird rights go away?

Yes.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Batum is worth more than the partial season we would get from Monroe. Teams with cap space would gladly take him next offseason. We would have the same ability to sign Monroe this summer too.

Not with all those players counting against our cap, we wouldn't. The point of this deal is that it would give us the ability to offer Monroe up to $12M, as well as seeing how well he would fit with the rest of our core.

 

[RR7]

Not with all those players counting against our cap, we wouldn't. The point of this deal is that it would give us the ability to offer Monroe up to $12M, as well as seeing how well he would fit with the rest of our core.

I think his point is in the offseason, we'd easily be able to move Batum for nothing in the offseason. So moving his salary now versus in the offseason wouldn't have a difference on whether we can make an offer to Monroe. All it does is downgrade us at SF, and maybe gives us a small upgrade at our backup C position. Doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[magnifier661]

Do the bird rights go away?

Yes, since signing the QO Monroe would lose any bird rights the moment he's traded. That's why Monroe has veto rights to any deal

 

[OneLifeToLive]

Nice idea but as frustrating as Nic has been for me, I would not make this trade. I do think he either needs to get a lot better or we need to upgrade him for THAT position.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I think his point is in the offseason, we'd easily be able to move Batum for nothing in the offseason. So moving his salary now versus in the offseason wouldn't have a difference on whether we can make an offer to Monroe. All it does is downgrade us at SF, and maybe gives us a small upgrade at our backup C position. Doesn't make any sense to me.

The problem is, we wouldn't be able to move Batum "for nothing" before July 1, because teams won't have cap space or a trade exception large enough to take him for nothing, and teams wouldn't do it after July 1 unless/until the top free agents (including Monroe) have already been signed. Plus, this deal also includes Freeland/Barton, which are another $5M in cap space. Plus, the trade gives us time to evaluate Monroe on THIS team (rather than only seeing him on the Pistons' crappy roster). Plus, I really don't think Singler is really much of a downgrade from Batum anyway.

But anyway, that's just my opinion. Clearly, we'll just need to agree to disagree, and I'm fine with that.

 

[magnifier661]

This actually makes a lot of sense. I just assume Portland values Batum more than any of us could imagine so I doubt it would happen

 

[Hobbesarable]

Center is Monroe's natural position and he would be an instant "in the paint" scoring option.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/monrogr01/shooting/2015/

 

[RR7]

The problem is, we wouldn't be able to move Batum "for nothing" before July 1 teams won't have cap space or a trade exception large enough to take him for nothing, and teams wouldn't do it after July 1 unless/until the top free agents (including Monroe) have already been signed. Plus, this deal also includes Freeland/Barton, which are another $4M in cap space. Plus, the trade gives us time to evaluate Monroe on THIS team (rather than only seeing him on the Pistons' crappy roster). Plus, I really don't think Singler is really much of a downgrade from Batum anyway.

But anyway, that's just my opinion. Clearly, we'll just need to agree to disagree, and I'm fine with that.

Freeland and Barton both expire, so there salaries don't matter.
And I'd say the difference between Batum and Singler is FAR greater than any difference between Monroe and Kaman.
Batum is in a shooting slump the first month of this season. I don't think with his career that there's any reason to think that THIS shooting is the norm. He's a much better defender than Singler is. He's got a better career PER, TS%, TRB%, AST%, Steal%, Block %, WS/48. Batum's worst season is basically close to Singler's best season in a lot of categories. VORP, WORP far greater. On top of that, Singler for the most part has been a net negative when on the court for Detroit. The most assists he's ever had in a game were 5, twice. 5! So he's nowhere near the playmaker that Nic is. He's a go sit in the corner and try not to get in the way player on offense. So, we put more added pressure on Damian to be MORE of the primary ball handler. Don't care much for that. I really can't figure out how Singler wouldn't be much of a dropoff from Nic. I really can't.

Added to that what I believe is a huge downgrade at SF, what do we really ADD from the trade? I like Monroe for the next month and a half when ROlo is out. Though, really, he doesn't replace much of what ROlo did for us. He takes all of Kaman's minutes when Rolo comes back. But doesn't really give us much more than what Kaman does.

 

[RR7]

Center is Monroe's natural position and he would be an instant "in the paint" scoring option.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/monrogr01/shooting/2015/

Kaman's already an in the paint scoring option, though. With the added bonus of being able to hit a jump shot and block a shot.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Freeland and Barton both expire, so there salaries don't matter.

Well, damn--I misread the site I was looking at. You're right on that one.

 

[magnifier661]

Freeland and Barton both expire, so there salaries don't matter.
And I'd say the difference between Batum and Singler is FAR greater than any difference between Monroe and Kaman.
Batum is in a shooting slump the first month of this season. I don't think with his career that there's any reason to think that THIS shooting is the norm. He's a much better defender than Singler is. He's got a better career PER, TS%, TRB%, AST%, Steal%, Block %, WS/48. Batum's worst season is basically close to Singler's best season in a lot of categories. VORP, WORP far greater. On top of that, Singler for the most part has been a net negative when on the court for Detroit. The most assists he's ever had in a game were 5, twice. 5! So he's nowhere near the playmaker that Nic is. He's a go sit in the corner and try not to get in the way player on offense. So, we put more added pressure on Damian to be MORE of the primary ball handler. Don't care much for that. I really can't figure out how Singler wouldn't be much of a dropoff from Nic. I really can't.

Added to that what I believe is a huge downgrade at SF, what do we really ADD from the trade? I like Monroe for the next month and a half when ROlo is out. Though, really, he doesn't replace much of what ROlo did for us. He takes all of Kaman's minutes when Rolo comes back. But doesn't really give us much more than what Kaman does.

You make a damn good point...

 

[BigGameDamian]

Even with his shooting struggles, I really dislike the idea of moving Batum in a lot of deals, but especially in one that brings us back something like Monroe. He gets minutes to his heart's desire right now. And then come February when Rolo is back...do we just drop Kaman from the rotation all together?

Good point. Whats going to happen with Lopez returns?

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

I'll pass. Batum is more important to what we do than what Monroe would bring for a month and a half.

If we were to ever trade Batum, I'd only want to see a young wing and a pick comeback. Think something like Terrence Ross and a 1st from the Raptors.

 

[OneLifeToLive]

He gets minutes to his heart's desire right now. And then come February when Rolo is back...do we just drop Kaman from the rotation all together?

Only if you value offense over defense. I personally don't think Chris would ever allow that to happen.