A Bucket of Ice Water on the Flagg Ship!

[e_blazer]

Sam Vencenie at The Athletic is throwing shade at the 2025 draft class, Cooper Flagg included:

“I wouldn’t get hyperbolic and say this is a superclass. I would say it looks like a fairly average draft class. The depth remains a significant question for teams. Beyond that, there are some differing opinions about how good the top five of this class projects to be. Some love it and see multiple all-stars. Others believe there are real questions about players such as Cooper Flagg, Ace Bailey, Dylan Harper and V.J. Edgecombe. Can Edgecombe be a primary option? Can Flagg create enough for himself to be a worthy No. 1 pick? Can Bailey make anything easy for himself?

All these players have tremendous potential, but I tend to agree with the scouts who don’t see this group as a generational crop of talent right now. Coming into the season, I think it would be difficult to rate the top end of this class ahead of the 2023 group, which had Victor Wembanyama, Scoot Henderson and Amen Thompson entering the year as potential franchise players, with Brandon Miller joining them in that projection. As great as Flagg looks, it would be hard to rate him within the same tier of player as Wembanyama, and I have yet to hear from a single evaluator within league circles who believes that.”

If true, I fear for Phats’ mental health.

 

[e_blazer]

If a mod would change the extra “g” in the thread title to an “!”, it would be appreciated.

 

[HansenYang]

Sam Vencenie at The Athletic is throwing shade at the 2025 draft class, Cooper Flagg included:

“I wouldn’t get hyperbolic and say this is a superclass. I would say it looks like a fairly average draft class. The depth remains a significant question for teams. Beyond that, there are some differing opinions about how good the top five of this class projects to be. Some love it and see multiple all-stars. Others believe there are real questions about players such as Cooper Flagg, Ace Bailey, Dylan Harper and V.J. Edgecombe. Can Edgecombe be a primary option? Can Flagg create enough for himself to be a worthy No. 1 pick? Can Bailey make anything easy for himself?

All these players have tremendous potential, but I tend to agree with the scouts who don’t see this group as a generational crop of talent right now. Coming into the season, I think it would be difficult to rate the top end of this class ahead of the 2023 group, which had Victor Wembanyama, Scoot Henderson and Amen Thompson entering the year as potential franchise players, with Brandon Miller joining them in that projection. As great as Flagg looks, it would be hard to rate him within the same tier of player as Wembanyama, and I have yet to hear from a single evaluator within league circles who believes that.”

If true, I fear for Phats’ mental health.

I haven't seen anyone CLAIM that Flagg was in Wemby's tier of prospect.

I do think 5-6 players in the '25 class will at least be in the Scoot/Miller/Amen tier.... Actually, I think 3-4 will be better prospects than the Scoot/Miller/Amen group.

 

[Natebishop3]

At this stage this is pointless to me. Everyone thought the top picks at this time last year would be Ron Holland and Justin Edwards.

Holland went 5th but a lot of people thought that was a reach, and Edwards went undrafted.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Seeing Flagg more than hold his own against team USA was enough for me. Clearly a better prospect than Scoot ever was with his height and defense.

Not to say Flagg is a guaranteed franchise player, or at the top of the last 20 drafts (been some amazing prospects). Wemby and LeBron are both much higher and I doubt that changes.

He's miles ahead of anyone from that 2024 draft. Flag alone is reason enough for a directionless team like ours to prioritize tanking this season. If Ace or others pan out too -well thats just gravy.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

At this stage this is pointless to me. Everyone thought the top picks at this time last year would be Ron Holland and Justin Edwards.

Holland went 5th but a lot of people thought that was a reach, and Edwards went undrafted.

Disagree - all the experts knew Wemby was very special two years ago and that last years draft with Holland/Edwards/etc was historically awful. Of course evaluations of these players will get more accurate every month up to and even after the draft.

 

[Natebishop3]

Disagree - all the experts knew Wemby was very special two years ago and that last years draft with Holland/Edwards/etc was historically awful. Of course evaluations of these players will get more accurate every month up to and even after the draft.

Possibly because Wemby was a 7'5 freak of fucking nature?

 

[Tortimer]

We will see how good these top prospects are because outside of the one top pg from Europe they will all be playing college basketball this year. I trust the major teams in college a lot more then g league. IMHO from what I have seen this a a very good draft class but will be able to be a lot more confident after watching them this season. I know some people think Bailey might be better then Flagg but I don’t think so but might change my mind after watching them all season.

I remember if with Wemby there was doubters. Barkley, Shaq and many other analysts were trying to warn everyone about Wemby. From what I saw from the highlights and the limited gameplay I watched I thought Wemby was for sure going to be great. The only thing I worried about was injury. I really think Flagg will be at least an all star but maybe a top 5 player.

 

[Hoopguru]

Seeing Flagg more than hold his own against team USA was enough for me. Clearly a better prospect than Scoot ever was with his height and defense.

Not to say Flagg is a guaranteed franchise player, or at the top of the last 20 drafts (been some amazing prospects). Wemby and LeBron are both much higher and I doubt that changes.

He's miles ahead of anyone from that 2024 draft. Flag alone is reason enough for a directionless team like ours to prioritize tanking this season. If Ace or others pan out too -well thats just gravy.

I watched the USA/Flagg scrimmage and he certainly has a winners mentality and well rounded game for his age. However, the game I saw there was zero defense being played and was more of an offensive run and gun game. He will be good, no doubt and I hope we end up with him but it's a huge step from HS to Pro's.

 

[BIG Q]

I look at what GM's have been doing with their FRDP's preparing for this upcoming draft. Looking at the teams that were projected to suck, they kept their pick or put strong protection on it. Looking at teams that are fighting or were projected for playoff spots, some traded their pick. to me, I am sensing they knew this was a good draft, stacked with maybe eight top prospects that all would have gone first in the last draft. I pay little attention to a writer, that has an agenda to drive and clicks to bait. Lets see how many lottery picks are traded unprotected. I'm betting zero.

 

[e_blazer]

John Hollinger is all in on Flagg and the depth of the draft:


“It’s not just that the likely top lottery prize, Duke forward Cooper Flagg, is one of the most highly touted prospects in years. He’s not quite in the Wembanyama/LeBron James stratosphere, perhaps, but comparable to, say, Zion Williamson or Blake Griffin in other years.

There are so many dudes. The depth of quality in this draft is comparable, in my mind, to the loaded 2018 draft class … and perhaps even better. To review, that year gave us two relative duds at the top (Deandre Ayton and Marvin Bagley) … but also yielded Luka Dončić, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Jaren Jackson Jr., Trae Young, Jalen Brunson and Mikal Bridges, among others.”

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Please hide this post from HCP or he won't stop telling us to not get excited for the next draft for a whole year.

Please.

 

[STOMP]

John Hollinger is all in on Flagg and the depth of the draft: “It’s not just that the likely top lottery prize, Duke forward Cooper Flagg, is one of the most highly touted prospects in years. He’s not quite in the Wembanyama/LeBron James stratosphere, perhaps, but comparable to, say, Zion Williamson or Blake Griffin in other years.

I like Cooper more then I ever liked Zion or Blake as his all around game and ability to switch on D should translate better to the NBA then those two. They dominated college being bulls in a china shop and predictably lost some of that going up against bigger more athletic types.

STOMP

 

[julius]

John Hollinger is all in on Flagg and the depth of the draft:


“It’s not just that the likely top lottery prize, Duke forward Cooper Flagg, is one of the most highly touted prospects in years. He’s not quite in the Wembanyama/LeBron James stratosphere, perhaps, but comparable to, say, Zion Williamson or Blake Griffin in other years.

There are so many dudes. The depth of quality in this draft is comparable, in my mind, to the loaded 2018 draft class … and perhaps even better. To review, that year gave us two relative duds at the top (Deandre Ayton and Marvin Bagley) … but also yielded Luka Dončić, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Jaren Jackson Jr., Trae Young, Jalen Brunson and Mikal Bridges, among others.”

I like how 17-10 is considered a "dud". I'd take 17-10 from Greg Oden.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

The potential "problem" with Flagg is that his defense is way ahead of his offense. He's not a KD-type, he's more of a Kirilenko type. Now, that should be exciting - Kirilenko is one of the greatest Euro players of all time and famously led an underdog Russian team to the Euro title (beating Nowitzki's Germany in the final, if memory serves), but he's sort of the forgotten man on some very good Utah teams (and probably most remembered for being ferociously dunked on by Baron Davis).

However, it also means Flagg might be more Draymond Green than Seth Curry (or more Pippen than Jordan), whereas lottery teams are looking for a STAR. He needs to be on a team that has scorers (well, until his offense comes around, which it well might). Another recent analogy might be Evan Mobley, who is rumored to be making "the step" this season.

 

[Pinwheel1]

The bottom line is that Flagg, nor any of the other "future stars" in next year's draft have played a single game in college yet. (or the GLeague) I am guessing Flagg will be a good player in the NBA but before anyone starts to intentionally tank for any of them, maybe we should wait a few games to see if he is super star good.

 

[Natebishop3]

The bottom line is that Flagg, nor any of the other "future stars" in next year's draft have played a single game in college yet. (or the GLeague) I am guessing Flagg will be a good player in the NBA but before anyone starts to intentionally tank for any of them, maybe we should wait a few games to see if he is super star good.

Exactly. Edwards was considered potentially a top pick last year and then he played in college.... he looked terrible.

 

[Foxx]

I’m gonna throw out a hot take that this recent years draft will produce more than this upcoming years, both in immediate production and long term. I don’t like hype as an energy, it so rarely works out. Also, the pro tankers can never win.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

The bottom line is that Flagg, nor any of the other "future stars" in next year's draft have played a single game in college yet. (or the GLeague) I am guessing Flagg will be a good player in the NBA but before anyone starts to intentionally tank for any of them, maybe we should wait a few games to see if he is super star good.

What advantage do the Blazers get from waiting?

Maybe we can first try harder this season to win 27 games instead of 23.

 

[Pinwheel1]

What advantage do the Blazers get from waiting?

Maybe we can first try harder this season to win 27 games instead of 23.

Well first of all my point was not just about the Blazers. Some here think other teams will tank for him as well.

Secondly, when I say tank I mean losing intentionally. Looking at the ESPN projections where they have Orlando 11th from the bottom, I don't think we have to tank to
end up in the bottom 10. I think we will be better this year but so will everyone else. Of course, injuries for any team can alter that.

https://www.espn.com/nba/bpi/_/view/projections

 

[STOMP]

The potential "problem" with Flagg is that his defense is way ahead of his offense. He's not a KD-type, he's more of a Kirilenko type. Now, that should be exciting - Kirilenko is one of the greatest Euro players of all time and famously led an underdog Russian team to the Euro title (beating Nowitzki's Germany in the final, if memory serves), but he's sort of the forgotten man on some very good Utah teams (and probably most remembered for being ferociously dunked on by Baron Davis).

However, it also means Flagg might be more Draymond Green than Seth Curry (or more Pippen than Jordan), whereas lottery teams are looking for a STAR. He needs to be on a team that has scorers (well, until his offense comes around, which it well might). Another recent analogy might be Evan Mobley, who is rumored to be making "the step" this season.

I would absolutely fucking love to add the next Draymond/Kirilenko to Portland's lineup. Those two consistently provide(d) winning skills/plays that most forwards just can't. That he also shoots the 3 ball much better then either of those two (38% for each of his final two HS seasons), indicates he'll have another valuable role on offense that those two didn't & speaks to how high his ceiling is. I'll continue your running analogy with more Duncan then Kobe

STOMP

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I would absolutely fucking love to add the next Draymond/Kirilenko to Portland's lineup. Those two consistently provide(d) winning skills/plays that most forwards just can't. That he also shoots the 3 ball much better then either of those two (38% for each of his final two HS seasons), indicates he'll have another valuable role on offense that those two didn't & speaks to how high his ceiling is. I'll continue your running analogy with more Duncan then Kobe

STOMP

Oh, I agree - I always prefer those kind of players. I'm just saying he might fall a bit just as Clingan did because his talents aren't as sexy.