A player revisited.

[Nikolokolus]

With all of this talk about trading for Gerald Wallace, Shane Battier, Caron Butler, etc. etc. I completely forgot about a free agent that should be available this summer and probably wouldn't break the bank to get him. Anybody remember the famous Olympiakos small forward Josh Childress? I know he's a restricted free agent, but there's a lot of bad blood between he and the Hawks so I can't see them fighting much to keep him plus I can't see him commanding much more than 6-7 million a year, which puts him right in our wheel house as far as affordability goes; so even if Darius plays his ten games this year and hits our cap figure Chill would still be affordable.

Pros:
A good perimeter defender
Plays above the rim
A good rebounder
Can play the 4 in small lineups
An unselfish passer
High Bball IQ (and real IQ!)

Cons:
Not a great outside shooter
Has a giant afro which needs its own seat on the plane
Went to Stanford (yuck!)

What do you guys think? Anybody up for a small forward rotation of Childress/Batum?

 

[Boise Blazer]

Not bad but if (and that may or may not be a big IF) Batum continues to develop then they seem somewhat similar with Batum having a higher ceiling. Would I take him over Outlaw ....

 

[Mediocre Man]

I think with the unexpected quick development of Batum, Josh Childress isn't as desired as maybe he once would have been.

He is certainly better than Batum at this point, but he lacks what this team really needs. Playoff experience and knowing what it's like to win in the playoffs.

A proven winner who has been there before and would be able to teach our oyung players what it really takes to compete on a nightly basis in the NBA is what this team lacks desperately.

 

[crowTrobot]

i'd like to see what batum looks like in a year and where webster is at before giving a non-superstar a big contract to take most of their potential minutes.

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

A player revisited... Kirk Hinrich?

 

[Minstrel]

I've been very interested in Childress for quite a while. Basically, Portland would have to work out a sign-and-trade with Atlanta, I think (giving up some very minimal value in return as Atlanta clearly has no real hold on Childress, since he's willing to find his fortune in Greece). Without a sign-and-trade, Childress couldn't risk signing with Portland, because Atlanta might match.

There is a possibility that Atlanta will renounce their rights to him, I guess. I believe he counts against their cap as a cap-hold for as long as they hold his RFA rights.

 

[talman]

Cons:

Has a giant afro which needs its own seat on the plane

I lol'ed.

 

[STOMP]

With all of this talk about trading for Gerald Wallace, Shane Battier, Caron Butler, etc. etc. I completely forgot about a free agent that should be available this summer and probably wouldn't break the bank to get him. Anybody remember the famous Olympiakos small forward Josh Childress? I know he's a restricted free agent, but there's a lot of bad blood between he and the Hawks so I can't see them fighting much to keep him plus I can't see him commanding much more than 6-7 million a year, which puts him right in our wheel house as far as affordability goes; so even if Darius plays his ten games this year and hits our cap figure Chill would still be affordable.

Pros:
A good perimeter defender
Plays above the rim
A good rebounder
Can play the 4 in small lineups
An unselfish passer
High Bball IQ (and real IQ!)

Cons:
Not a great outside shooter
Has a giant afro which needs its own seat on the plane
Went to Stanford (yuck!)

What do you guys think? Anybody up for a small forward rotation of Childress/Batum?

yes please! I like his D and smart team ball offensive play.

an additional pro would be that he's from the West coast. I don't think he'd be much of a 4 as he measured in at the combine about the same as Martell in height, wingspan, and standing reach... dude is wing sized. I do like the possibilities of adding him as he'd be both attainable and an upgrade on Martell and Travis.

STOMP

 

[hasoos]

I've been very interested in Childress for quite a while. Basically, Portland would have to work out a sign-and-trade with Atlanta, I think (giving up some very minimal value in return as Atlanta clearly has no real hold on Childress, since he's willing to find his fortune in Greece). Without a sign-and-trade, Childress couldn't risk signing with Portland, because Atlanta might match.

There is a possibility that Atlanta will renounce their rights to him, I guess. I believe he counts against their cap as a cap-hold for as long as they hold his RFA rights.

Does this really make sense to you though? He signed with europe for more money than the Hawks would pay. Why would they match Portland, but not match a euro team? Secondly, just because Josh is signed with european team, I don't think it translates to immediately being to sign here and play. Wouldn't there be a buyout that would be needed from his euro squad in order to make it take place? It seems to me, there are a lot of pieces folks have overlooked here that make this seem to be a reach, at best.

 

[Minstrel]

Does this really make sense to you though? He signed with europe for more money than the Hawks would pay. Why would they match Portland, but not match a euro team?

They couldn't match Olympiakos. RFA matching rights only apply to the NBA. Joining a team in Europe is, in terms of the CBA, equivalent to him going off to become a computer programmer for Microsoft. The Hawks can't match salaries paid by entities that aren't part of the NBA and force him to play for them.

Secondly, just because Josh is signed with european team, I don't think it translates to immediately being to sign here and play. Wouldn't there be a buyout that would be needed from his euro squad in order to make it take place?

Nope. Childress' contract has opt-outs for him every year. No buy-outs will be necessary. It's a pretty sweet deal he signed.

 

[craigehlo]

Josh Childress' stats in the Euro league confirm his fairly average talent level. I bet they are feeling some buyers remorse on his bloated contract.

He's solid on defense, but a pretty bad fit in terms of both scoring and rebounding.

 

[Minstrel]

Josh Childress' stats in the Euro league confirm his fairly average talent level. I bet they are feeling some buyers remorse on his bloated contract.

He's solid on defense, but a pretty bad fit in terms of both scoring and rebounding.

His NBA stats suggest otherwise. He's obviously not a volume scorer (and has never been billed as such) but he averaged double-digit points per game on VERY high scoring efficiency for a non-big man. His rebounding is very good, as his career Rebound Rate is over 10, which is strong for a wing.

In addition, he's a very good defender and a solid passer. He's also a high basketball IQ player, for what that's worth. He's even a decent perimeter shooter, as his career 3PT% is .360 (granted, he hasn't shot many...but Portland would get him many more open three-point looks and he can knock them down).

He's not a star, but as a complementary player he's a virtually perfect fit.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Josh Childress' stats in the Euro league confirm his fairly average talent level. I bet they are feeling some buyers remorse on his bloated contract.

He's solid on defense, but a pretty bad fit in terms of both scoring and rebounding.

Not really.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=2373

Childress is a very good rebounder for his position, a classic "glue" guy who hits 50%+ 11 ppg, averages 2.2 offensive rebounds for his career (5.6 total) averages half a block, a steal, and about 2 assists per game in roughly 30 minutes. Imagine Travis without the corner jumper, crappy shot selection, better decision making and better understanding of team defense.

The so-so adjustment to Euro ball doesn't really surprise me, as it is a very different kind of "inside" game.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Yes, Please.

I really like Childress and think he would be a perfect 3 for us.

 

[STOMP]

He's solid on defense, but a pretty bad fit in terms of both scoring and rebounding.

how so? Compare him to last years stats from Martell.

FG% - FT% - 3Pt% - Pts per 36 Minutes - RBs per 36 Minutes
MW 42% - 73% - 39% - 13.8 - 5.0
JC 57% - 81% - 37% - 14.2 - 5.8

as his FG% and FTs attempts indicate, he takes it to the hole a lot

STOMP

 

[craigehlo]

how so? Compare him to last years stats from Martell.

I think that's an excellent comparison in terms of production. I'm not huge Martell fan, but I think he could easily provide them same ho-hum production if given the minutes.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

I think that's an excellent comparison in terms of production. I'm not huge Martell fan, but I think he could easily provide them same ho-hum production if given the minutes.

Well Childress does play better defense and has better handles than Martell

 

[Minstrel]

I think that's an excellent comparison in terms of production. I'm not huge Martell fan, but I think he could easily provide them same ho-hum production if given the minutes.

Sure. Childress is merely Webster with far better scoring efficiency, far better passing, better rebounding, better decision-making and far better defense.

Actually, that's not much like Webster at all...

 

[STOMP]

I think that's an excellent comparison in terms of production. I'm not huge Martell fan, but I think he could easily provide them same ho-hum production if given the minutes.

you're confusing me. Childress played about the same amount of minutes that Martell did last year. Scored more points a lot more efficiently. Bested Martell 4.2 to 2.8 in trips to the foul line per 36 minutes. Rebounded a lot better. By most everyone accounts including yours he's also a better defender which means he limits the other teams production better... yet you think Martell provides the same level of production

STOMP

 

[B-Roy]

I'm a big Webster supporter, and all Webster has over Childress is three point shooting. That's it.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I think that's an excellent comparison in terms of production. I'm not huge Martell fan, but I think he could easily provide them same ho-hum production if given the minutes.

All I can say is watch more non-Blazer basketball and post less. Comparing Martell's game to Childress is something like saying that Rudy and Travis have the same game because their statistical output is similar ... and in this case the comparison between Childress and Martell is even less appropriate because Chill is so superior in almost every regard.

 

[gatorpops]

All I can say is watch more non-Blazer basketball and post less. Comparing Martell's game to Childress is something like saying that Rudy and Travis have the same game because their statistical output is similar ... and in this case the comparison between Childress and Martell is even less appropriate because Chill is so superior in almost every regard.

If he can drive and get to the line, we need him badly. Outlaw and Martel were/are not good at that at all. Helps the whole team and especially Roy.

g

 

[craigehlo]

Sure. Childress is merely Webster with far better scoring efficiency, far better passing, better rebounding, better decision-making and far better defense.

Actually, that's not much like Webster at all...

Dude is set loose on the Euro leagues and is averaging a VERY ordinary stats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Childress). I think Martell Webster could step up and do the same damage offensively. Neither player is close to the level of talent that would really bring this team to the next level IMHO. You have to look at a guy like Gerald Wallace to get that done.

 

[Minstrel]

Dude is set loose on the Euro leagues and is averaging a VERY ordinary stats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Childress).

Euroleague stats are more relevant to NBA analysis than NBA stats? I don't particularly care what he's doing in the Euroleague. Intuitively, one might expect him to dominate, but the style of game is different and Childress' style is not really lead-scorer. His NBA numbers are great for a complementary player.

I don't know whether he would "take the team to the next level." What he'd do is solidify a position of considerable weakness with very good all-around production, give the team a very good perimeter defender and not need the ball in his hands to contribute, which is very useful on a team where scoring roles are at a premium between Roy, Aldridge, Fernandez, Outlaw and, in future, Oden and Bayless.

I'd love to get Gerald Wallace. I'd prefer him to Josh Childress. But if Pritchard can't get him, I'd much rather have Childress starting than Webster or Outlaw. By a lot.

 

[craigehlo]

I'd love to get Gerald Wallace. I'd prefer him to Josh Childress. But if Pritchard can't get him, I'd much rather have Childress starting than Webster or Outlaw. By a lot.

I agree with that. But I can't shake how unimpressive Childress was with the Hawks last season. His defense and intangibles were a bit overrated. Even with Josh Smith hurt they are on a better pace than the previous season (last I checked through 20 games).

 

[Minstrel]

I agree with that. But I can't shake how unimpressive Childress was with the Hawks last season.

Last season was Childress' best of his career by PER. His rebounding and assist rates fell slightly, but his scoring efficiency jumped to rather absurd rates. A .571 FG% / .647 TS% is simply unheard-of for a wing player. And he did it while scoring 14 PPG, so it's not like he just takes one or two shots a game. And he's always been an extremely efficient scorer. Last season was his best, but not some fluke that was out of step with the rest of his career.

His defense and intangibles were a bit overrated.

Intangibles are usually overrated, which is why I didn't make it a central aspect to my argument for him. Overall, though, it's nice to have a player who makes good decisions. You don't worry that he'll make a key mistake late in the game.

As for his defense, I don't think it's overrated. He's rarely called a top defender or a "stopper." But he's a very good defensive player, in my opinion. He won't shut down excellent offensive wings, but he'll make them work and prevent them from going for huge scoring performances with minimal help.

 

[BalancedMan]

Doesn't Atlanta still hold the RFA for Childress? So that ATL can match if (when) he comes back to the league. Or do the rights get renounced.

 

[KingSpeed]

The afro is a plus for me.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Doesn't Atlanta still hold the RFA for Childress? So that ATL can match if (when) he comes back to the league. Or do the rights get renounced.

They still have his rights and could match, but he had a fairly acrimonious split with the team last year. The Blazers could do a sign and trade, or Childress always holds the option to go right back to Europe if ATL tried to block him from signing with another team. My guess is the Hawks would want something for him if possible, but won't go to extreme lengths to hold on to his rights.

 

[Minstrel]

They still have his rights and could match, but he had a fairly acrimonious split with the team last year. The Blazers could do a sign and trade, or Childress always holds the option to right back to Europe if ATL tried to block him from signing with another team. My guess is the Hawks would want something for him if possible, but won't go to extreme lengths to hold on to his rights.

Also, from what I've read, Childress counts as a cap-hold for as long as they retain his RFA rights. So they may renounce him or trade him for very little to get rid of that unproductive cap-hold.