About this draft pick we might get from NO

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Eli Vance

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Am I correct in that if the Pelicans pick doesn't fall between 4 and 14 we get nothing? No second rounder, no cash, nothing? That doesn't seem right. Currently they are in the perfect spot though thankfully.
 
WTF kinda protections are those?

If we don't get it this year, it goes to 2025 Mil top 4 protected.

If even that doesn't convey, then it goes to NOTHING?


Cronin, you fucking moron...
 
Mediocre Man said:
Until 2025

CJ did not have as much value as some thought
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I think we put ourselves in a bad place to leverage the value that everyone in the league knew that CJ did have. I also think we saw with both trades that Cronin was a poor negotiator who allowed his competition to have the view of him as being in a position of weakness because he's got the interim tag, hasn't ever been a GM before, had a mandate from ownership to get under the tax, etc. A good negotiator negates those factors by creating competition for their assets. You can do that through a lot of methods but the fact that the Clippers trade was seen pretty much universally around the league as a trade that sent out way more value than it brought back emboldened the Pelicans and any other team we engaged about CJ to pull bullshit like the protections on the pick that exist. Next year's Pelicans/Lakers pick without condition should have been what it rolled to or if it had conditions should have rolled to any of their three picks in 2024 or the worst of them or if that had conditions, to the pick we actually got as the contingency, which should have rolled to multiple seconds if it kept the conditions it currently has. We were dealing with the team with the second largest cache of future picks in the league. There was no reason to let them off with such favorable protections and a possibility of ending up with nothing.

I think it's all going to turn out OK and we'll get a valuable mid to late lottery pick in this draft to use as we see fit but just the fact that Cronin took the protections he did made it a worse deal and making two deals that many executives had to have seen as poor makes Cronin's position as a negotiator in the future one of weakness.
 
Can someone explain to me why the pick is protected from 15-30? I understand why the Pelicans would want one of the first four picks, but why are they so interested in keeping the pick after 14?
 
Bingo Bango said:
Can someone explain to me why the pick is protected from 15-30? I understand why the Pelicans would want one of the first four picks, but why are they so interested in keeping the pick after 14?
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they had already traded that 1st round pick to Charlotte; it was lottery protected (1-14). So they traded the lottery protection to Portland but added protections for 1-4. That leaves the Blazer window as 5-14

I understand that the Pels did not want to give up a potential 1-4 pick for CJ. I don't fault Cronin for giving them that 1-4 protection

but the Pels had these future picks available:

upload_2022-3-15_20-6-2.png

it's probably minor but Cronin also allowed the Pels to put 1-4 protections on that Milwaukee pick. If he was going to allow protections after losing the 2022 Pels pick, it should have been the Laker pick(s) protected 1-4
 
blazerkor said:
I think we put ourselves in a bad place to leverage the value that everyone in the league knew that CJ did have. I also think we saw with both trades that Cronin was a poor negotiator who allowed his competition to have the view of him as being in a position of weakness because he's got the interim tag, hasn't ever been a GM before, had a mandate from ownership to get under the tax, etc. A good negotiator negates those factors by creating competition for their assets. You can do that through a lot of methods but the fact that the Clippers trade was seen pretty much universally around the league as a trade that sent out way more value than it brought back emboldened the Pelicans and any other team we engaged about CJ to pull bullshit like the protections on the pick that exist. Next year's Pelicans/Lakers pick without condition should have been what it rolled to or if it had conditions should have rolled to any of their three picks in 2024 or the worst of them or if that had conditions, to the pick we actually got as the contingency, which should have rolled to multiple seconds if it kept the conditions it currently has. We were dealing with the team with the second largest cache of future picks in the league. There was no reason to let them off with such favorable protections and a possibility of ending up with nothing.

I think it's all going to turn out OK and we'll get a valuable mid to late lottery pick in this draft to use as we see fit but just the fact that Cronin took the protections he did made it a worse deal and making two deals that many executives had to have seen as poor makes Cronin's position as a negotiator in the future one of weakness.
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I think we just overvalued a lot of our assets and underestimated how bad their contracts were...

Nobody was going to get better value for those players in the same situation.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
I think we just overvalued a lot of our assets and underestimated how bad their contracts were...

Nobody was going to get better value for those players in the same situation.
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Maybe.... or maybe not.

I guess we'll never know since Cronin jumped at agreeing to a shitty offer a week before the deadline.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Until 2025

CJ did not have as much value as some thought
Click to expand...

Not sure why... he has been balling out for New Orleans.

26.6 ppg
6.8 assists
5.5 rebounds
52.7% from the field
40% from three
24.8 PER

Those are superstar numbers, and pretty much exactly what I thought he'd put up if he was made the lead guard of a team. We got hosed.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
Maybe.... or maybe not.

I guess we'll never know since Cronin jumped at agreeing to a shitty offer a week before the deadline.
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It's cool man there have been multiple reports siting sources from front office (obviously they're anonymous so you take it for what it's worth) saying that we never gave them a chance and that they would have paid more for Norm. Just the fact that there were teams who wanted to give us more value for Norm but didn't get a chance to go there tells you all you need to know. Norm's contract is not shitty. He's a starting level player in the league locked into a deal that never goes above 20M through his entire prime. I get it that sometimes teams like deals that have more flexibility but he signed a team friendly deal. That Norm/RoCo debacle set the trade market for our team, that we were selling low and we did it again closer to the deadline with CJ and Larry. Look at what CJ has been able to do when playing with Ingram and tell me that the Pelicans didn't get over on us.

Some people on here for whatever reason (I seriously can't understand it) won't admit that we took way less value back in both of those trades, more so the Clippers deal but still both. I don't know why they would stick up for the deals, I really have no idea. We can get better next season than we were to start this season but that doesn't mean that it was OK to give up so much more value than we got in return.
 
blazerkor said:
It's cool man there have been multiple reports siting sources from front office (obviously they're anonymous so you take it for what it's worth) saying that we never gave them a chance and that they would have paid more for Norm. Just the fact that there were teams who wanted to give us more value for Norm but didn't get a chance to go there tells you all you need to know. Norm's contract is not shitty. He's a starting level player in the league locked into a deal that never goes above 20M through his entire prime. I get it that sometimes teams like deals that have more flexibility but he signed a team friendly deal. That Norm/RoCo debacle set the trade market for our team, that we were selling low and we did it again closer to the deadline with CJ and Larry. Look at what CJ has been able to do when playing with Ingram and tell me that the Pelicans didn't get over on us.

Some people on here for whatever reason (I seriously can't understand it) won't admit that we took way less value back in both of those trades, more so the Clippers deal but still both. I don't know why they would stick up for the deals, I really have no idea. We can get better next season than we were to start this season but that doesn't mean that it was OK to give up so much more value than we got in return.
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Agree Joe could have done better especially with the clipper deal. The CJ deal could have been better also, but Hart has surprised me. If Joe doesn't use these picks to trade for front star quality players, then it wouldn't surprise me that Dame either ask's for a change or we trade him for another star front court player and some? Joe seems like a nice dude and smart but you need good negotiator. I wonder if Dame was aware of the players involved in the recent trades, seems I remember Joe mentioning he's kept Chauncey and Dame informed?
 
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Hoopguru said:
Agree Joe could have done better especially with the clipper deal. The CJ deal could have been better also, but Hart has surprised me. If Joe doesn't use these picks to trade for front star quality players, then it would surprise me that Dame either ask's for a change or we trade him for another star front court player and some? Joe seems like a nice dude and smart but you need good negotiator. I wonder if Dame was aware of the players involved in the recent trades, seems I remember Joe mentioning he's kept Chauncey and Dame informed?
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Yeah, I don't know if Dame was consulted like so many in here seem to think he is during the actual trade process but for sure the three guys (Joe, Chauncey and Dame) had some well publicized meetings to brain storm and inform each other of the direction they think the team should be headed in and all three came out of those meetings saying that they were on the same page.

I think if a pick can't yield a day one difference maker then it has to be traded for proven commodities or the team has to pivot and start talking to Dame about new teams that would be acceptable to him that have assets that make our team much better... not some OKC or Houston bullshit but pieces that are on the same timeline as Ant, Nas, our other young guys and the picks that we do end up taking. I just mean that if we move on from Dame which is the last thing that I want right now, we need to get young players that have already shown that they can have the potential to be stars or one young player with superstar potential... not draft pick stock piles that are basically trading an all time great for some magic beans.
 
blazerkor said:
Some people on here for whatever reason (I seriously can't understand it) won't admit that we took way less value back in both of those trades, more so the Clippers deal but still both. I don't know why they would stick up for the deals, I really have no idea. We can get better next season than we were to start this season but that doesn't mean that it was OK to give up so much more value than we got in return.
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cuz they have can't see past their hatred for Olshey to evaluate these deals rationally. they think cronin is simply undoing Olshey's mistakes so it's OK to take back shit return in trades, while forgetting that maximizing asset play around the margins sometimes can make the biggest difference.
 
Smart people may know what to say or what needs to be done, but Wise people know if they should say it or not , or do something or not.
 
illmatic99 said:
cuz they have can't see past their hatred for Olshey to evaluate these deals rationally. they think cronin is simply undoing Olshey's mistakes so it's OK to take back shit return in trades, while forgetting that maximizing asset play around the margins sometimes can make the biggest difference.
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If we end up getting the NO pick and it ends up being a decent pick, the trade won't be horrible.... but gosh I really thought we could do better for CJ. He's really showing how good he can be as the point guard and it's super annoying.
 
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