Aldridge at a Crossroads: Sheed or Bosh?

[Crimson the Cat]

I'm not buying that. I don't think you're absolutely wrong, either. But it's not as absolute as you're making it sounds. Other than LaMarcus, we didn't have an inside presence on offense last season. Yet, the coaching staffs would rather LaMarcus play outside on the perimeter? I think it's more likely the combination of LaMarcus' tendency to drift outside and the coach thinks he's more effective with the midrange game than in the post.

See you look at last year and see soft, and I realize I'm in the minority, but I see a few other things that can't be ignored. First, Aldridge was younger and less experienced. He was 22 and learning the league. There's a difference. Secondly, the team did have success with LA floating away from the paint on offense. I'm not trying to just create excuses. It's just how I see it. When he did go inside, he had stretches last year where he was anything but "soft". He had 20 games last year where he rebounded in double figures and another 7 where he grabbed 9 boards. He also had multiple blocks in a game 26 times.

I think a lot of people last year confused being "soft" with a lack of consistency and the team's overall game plan to spread the floor.

I'd hardly think that the coach wants LaMarcus to stay outside if they think he can be more effective inside.

Well they might if they feel the team is better for doing so. Is the end goal to win basketball games or to turn Lamarcus into an All-Star.

How's that? Oden didn't play last season. Has LaMarcus' game changed somehow this year because of Oden? He's still the same, just struggling with his shot.

Lamarcus has totally changed IMO. His shot may be off, but his commitment to defense and team play has been something that's been unnoticed by a lot of fans. Again if Portland hadn't drafted Greg, Portland would be making Lamarcus the focal point in the post. Portland did though draft Greg. In preparation of this one of the focuses of the coaching staff was to prepare Lamarcus for the role that he'd be playing for the team for the entirety of his career. Unfortunately you see him as being soft. I see him as being the ultimate teammate.

 

[Ed O]

Lamarcus has totally changed IMO. His shot may be off, but his commitment to defense and team play has been something that's been unnoticed by a lot of fans. Again if Portland hadn't drafted Greg, Portland would be making Lamarcus the focal point in the post. Portland did though draft Greg. In preparation of this one of the focuses of the coaching staff was to prepare Lamarcus for the role that he'd be playing for the team for the entirety of his career. Unfortunately you see him as being soft. I see him as being the ultimate teammate.

First of all: I agree with others (and probably most) that he's soft. I almost can't believe anyone would disagree with that.

Secondly: being soft and being the "ultimate teammate" aren't at all mutually exclusive.

Thirdly: Oden missed a half-dozen games. Why was Aldridge not being effective on the post during those games? Maybe he trained differently in anticipation of Oden, but Aldridge has had pretty much the same game since high school, and I doubt at the NBA level he'd make big systematic changes in his style.

As previously stated, Aldridge is a weak rebounder. He doesn't get to the line much. He's not a physical defender. All of those things contribute to sort of the prototypical soft player in my opinion.

Ed O.

 

[rocketeer]

He's not quite as good as Bosh, but he's not an entire tier down.

aldridge is definitely at least an entire tier below bosh. bosh is on the dirk/amare level.

 

[rocketeer]

as i've said all along, aldridge is a perfect complimentary pf. his offensive game creates space for other people to operate. when he's aggressive he can take over games with his scoring(though he doesn't do it consistently). he's a solid defender and is just going to keep getting better and better as a team defender because he has all the tools. and he's completely unselfish.

he might never make an allstar game and he definitely won't lead the league in scoring(i remember a thread a little while back where a lot of people said he was the most likely blazer to do so), but he's still a very good player who wouldn't be easily replaced.

 

[Minstrel]

aldridge is definitely at least an entire tier below bosh. bosh is on the dirk/amare level.

Nowitzki and Stoudemire represent two different levels, since Nowitzki has declined. Bosh is on the level of the current Nowitzki, he's not at the level of Stoudemire.

Aldridge is hard to compare statistically. Age-wise, he and Bosh are about the same age, but Bosh has had a lot more NBA experience since he entered the league early. Aldridge's first two NBA seasons were better than Bosh's first two NBA seasons, but that's not fair to Bosh, since he was younger in those seasons. Bosh is better now, at the same age, but that's not fair to Aldridge since Bosh has had more time to learn the league and develop his NBA game.

I definitely don't think Aldridge is as good as Bosh, but I also don't think his talent is a tier down. In their primes, I think Bosh will be around a 24-25 PER player and Aldridge will be a 20-22 PER player. That's a significant difference, but not enormous.

 

[rocketeer]

Nowitzki and Stoudemire represent two different levels, since Nowitzki has declined. Bosh is on the level of the current Nowitzki, he's not at the level of Stoudemire.

dirk's decline is overstated. the mavs are definitely worse, but that doesn't mean dirk is.

to me the top tier of pfs is duncan/garnett. second tier is amare/bosh/dirk. third tier is aldridge/west/gasol/brand/etc.

 

[Minstrel]

dirk's decline is overstated. the mavs are definitely worse, but that doesn't mean dirk is.

His PER has dropped and what I've seen of him over the past season or two fits that drop. I'm not going by the Mavericks' record.

to me the top tier of pfs is duncan/garnett. second tier is amare/bosh/dirk. third tier is aldridge/west/gasol/brand/etc.

I think Stoudemire is the best power forward in the league now. I'd say the top tier is Stoudemire/Duncan/Garnett, the second tier is Bosh/Nowitzki and I generally agree with your third tier.

I was saying that I don't think Aldridge is a tier below Bosh in talent. Right now, he's a tier below him in production. In their primes, I think Bosh will be better, but not a level above.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Dammit. I knew you'd pipe in.

I almost can't believe anyone would disagree with that.

Believe it.

Secondly: being soft and being the "ultimate teammate" aren't at all mutually exclusive.

I understand that. I wasn't saying that one can't be both.

Thirdly: Oden missed a half-dozen games. Why was Aldridge not being effective on the post during those games? Maybe he trained differently in anticipation of Oden, but Aldridge has had pretty much the same game since high school, and I doubt at the NBA level he'd make big systematic changes in his style.

Bingo to the former point you made. This team is best served having LA away from the basket.

As for his past performances lending credence to this "soft" tag, I don't get it. As a sophomore at Texas he averaged 9 boards and 2 blocks a game. In the tournament he upped his rebounding to over 10 a game and over 2 blocks a game. I watched those games and never got the feeling that he was getting out muscled.

As previously stated, Aldridge is a weak rebounder. He doesn't get to the line much. He's not a physical defender. All of those things contribute to sort of the prototypical soft player in my opinion.

And he was also young, inexperienced, learning to play Center, and now learning to play with a number teammates (including a giant named Greg Oden). His rebounding numbers will continue to improve, at least that's what I predict. I'm already noticing him being more assertive on the defensive end. I think people just need to give these young players more time.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

The player I eventually see Aldridge a lot like is Pau Gasol. Aldridge has a prettier outside shot. I think Aldridge can develop into about the same type of rebounder and defender. If given the time, his post play could achieve the same success if he becomes a better passer and dribbler.

Do you all think Pau Gasol is soft?

 

[Ed O]

Do you all think Pau Gasol is soft?

Absolutely.

Ed O.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

LMA is Pau Gasol soft.

Such a softy.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Absolutely.

Dang man. I love Gasol. It must be me. Just like Aldridge, I don't see Gasol trying to avoid contact when going after players on defense, setting picks, or trying after rebounds. They're not necessarily a brutish baller trying to overly assert themselves on the game either, but that doesn't make them soft IMO.

I think back to the Olympics (that was the last time I really studied Gasol's game). He actually was very aggressive and at times going toe-to-toe with the oppositions big men.

Obviously there's a great deal of finesse to their offensive moves, but in Pau's case, that's a sign of craftiness, not a weakness.

 

[Minstrel]

I agree with Crimson the Cat that Gasol isn't soft. His reputation when he came to the NBA was as one of the few hard-nosed European basketball players, and I think he's justified that. He's definitely not one of the most bruising players in the NBA, but he doesn't shy away from contact...he'll mix it up on defense and on the boards.

I think Gasol is actually a fairly good comp for Aldridge. He needs to refine his offensive game, tighten up his defense and go harder for rebounds, but being a Gasol-like player is definitely within his ability and Gasol has had a number of very strong seasons.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Thanks Minstrel!

Well the vagabond musician is on my side. I win.

Here's some "soft" moments from Lamarcus.

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[Crimson the Cat]

Just because Aldridge has a fadeaway turn around jumper, doesn't make him soft. It makes him a weapon on offense.

Just because he put up short-range jumpers, doesn't make him soft. He takes what the defense gives him. I suppose he could try and get even better positioning, but why risk it when he can just shoot over everyone?

Just because he can shoot from 18-feet out doesn't make him soft.

Look. LA has skills that many other PFs don't. These skills, on offense, are going to put him out of position for rebounds. And that's fine for this team. It doesn't make him soft.

I agree that he has to improve on the defensive end grabbing rebounds. Odds are he will. Each year he's improved. I think many of you need to relax a bit and watch him develop before saying he's soft.

He will mix it up when he can. And as he gets more comfortable with his teammates, he'll mix it up more often I predict. I guarantee his rebounding numbers will increase. More of what we saw last night, defensively, is just the start.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

He's soft. Accept it. Live with it.

I know, it sucks.

 

[STOMP]

I think he's soft. I accept it. I live with it.

I know, it sucks.

fixed it for you

STOMP

 

[noknobs]

Aldridge hasn't been a monster rebounder and often settles for jumpshots, so I suppose he fits the mold of what some fans refer to as "soft". But I don't think he's soft. I think he plays good defense and has a good post game when he uses it (soft players aren't comfortable there). Compared to someone like Frye, he's much more adept and comfortable there. He's gradually going downlow more and more, but it's stupid to assume he needs to do that the majority of the time, that's simply not where we need him most of the time. Bring guys like Amare and Duncan out to guard him, so Oden/Joel have an easier time gobbling up off-rebounds.

The simple truth is right now he's not supposed to be Oden, he's suppose to be Lamarcus. Open jumpshots are going to be there when teams focus on Oden and Roy, and since he can hit them usually, why not take them? That's often his role. Since he's one of the fastest bigmen down the court, it's also his role to run the fast-break and get easy dunks, while Oden and Joel clean up the rebounds. His rebounds are also going to be hurt by the fact we just have a long, tall team in general. Guys like Batum, Outlaw, and Frye and even Roy/Rudy are decent rebounders. Outside of our two centers, rebounds are spread around on this team.

And btw, Sheed has a won a title, Bosh hasn't, so if this comparison is meant to slight Sheeds game in some way, I don't get it. And Sheed had Ben Wallace on the offensive end, not Oden/Joel.