All In? Or Trust the Process?

[riverman]

Deng has a terrible contract

 

[cmeese47]

Why would the Lakers do this? They could easily dump Clarkson for nothing if it came down to it. Ingram and Kuzma are on cheap contracts and likely wouldn't be dealt unless someone better than CJ is coming back. CJ is also on a massive contract so it doesn't help them shed salary either. Plus they have to add 3 picks too?

Let's put it this way: Even if cap space wasn't the issue the Lakers wouldn't trade Kuzma and Ingram for CJ. This should probably be in the crazy trade thread.

They save salary and it would cost them probably 2 picks to dump Dengs 17 million a year deal, another asset/s to trim of Clarksons 10 plus million. CJ would add a fringe all star ability and veteran presence that Lebron craves. That is the Lakers dream we absolutely must make them pay to help facilitate making it possible.

 

[hoopsjock]

They save salary and it would cost them probably 2 picks to dump Dengs 17 million a year deal, another asset/s to trim of Clarksons 10 plus million. CJ would add a fringe all star ability and veteran presence that Lebron craves. That is the Lakers dream we absolutely must make them pay to help facilitate making it possible.

Nah, this belongs in the crazy trade thread. They have their sights set much higher than CJ. There are plenty of teams that would take Clarkson the Lakers are just trying to get something for him before just giving him away in a few days. If they can't they will trade him somewhere for an expiring contract. Deng's deal is a real problem for them but they will likely just use the stretch provision this summer on the remaining money so it isn't quite as bad. There is zero chance they give up either Ingram or Kuzma to get rid of him, let alone both of them and picks.

 

[cmeese47]

Nah, this belongs in the crazy trade thread. They have their sights set much higher than CJ. There are plenty of teams that would take Clarkson the Lakers are just trying to get something for him before just giving him away in a few days. If they can't they will trade him somewhere for an expiring contract. Deng's deal is a real problem for them but they will likely just use the stretch provision this summer on the remaining money so it isn't quite as bad. There is zero chance they give up either Ingram or Kuzma to get rid of him, let alone both of them and picks.

They gave up Russel who is better than either Ingram or Kuzma just to shed Mozgovs deal. This trade doesnt saddle them with nine million in dead money like stretching Deng would and CJ could easily be moved if it looks like they could sign Lebron.

If the Lakers can move Clarkson and not give up a first in doing so then you can move this to fallacy. Until then at bare minimum we should be asking for Ingram Kuzma and picks from the Lakers.

 

[hoopsjock]

They gave up Russel who is better than either Ingram or Kuzma just to shed Mozgovs deal. This trade doesnt saddle them with nine million in dead money like stretching Deng would and CJ could easily be moved if it looks like they could sign Lebron.

If the Lakers can move Clarkson and not give up a first in doing so then you can move this to fallacy. Until then at bare minimum we should be asking for Ingram Kuzma and picks from the Lakers.

You can ask all you want, you won't receive though.

 

[cmeese47]

An alternative to that CJ would be to deal him to Cleveland for JR Smith, Crowder, Nets pick and Cleveland 2019 pick.

This isn't exactly ideal return but if Crowder remembers how to defend and Lebron leaves this summer then we land 2 likely top 10 picks and a cheap rotation guy in Crowder.

 

[hoopsjock]

An alternative to that CJ would be to deal him to Cleveland for JR Smith, Crowder, Nets pick and Cleveland 2019 pick.

This isn't exactly ideal return but if Crowder remembers how to defend and Lebron leaves this summer then we land 2 likely top 10 picks and a cheap rotation guy in Crowder.

Cleveland doesn't have their pick in 2019. It belongs to Atlanta top-10 protected in 2019 and 2020 and then turns into two 2nds if not conveyed.

 

[BrianFromWA]

^I don't know why CLE would do that, but that's the type of deal that could reset the team going forward.

BTW, CLE doesn't have their 2019. The soonest we could get one is "two years after the 2019 pick conveys", which would be 2021. Still that would be interesting. I still like CJ (when you get your hands on a 25ppg-potential scorer you don't give him up lightly, especially when he's a great fit for the city and franchise) and think we can do other things to upgrade. Sure, 1 year off the window may go away by waiting until this summer or next year to trade away some dead cap weight, but resetting like this means that 3-4 years are going to pass by before Dame/Nurk/Collins?/Lotto Pick1 are ready to compete highly.

 

[cmeese47]

^I don't know why CLE would do that, but that's the type of deal that could reset the team going forward.

BTW, CLE doesn't have their 2019. The soonest we could get one is "two years after the 2019 pick conveys", which would be 2021. Still that would be interesting. I still like CJ (when you get your hands on a 25ppg-potential scorer you don't give him up lightly, especially when he's a great fit for the city and franchise) and think we can do other things to upgrade. Sure, 1 year off the window may go away by waiting until this summer or next year to trade away some dead cap weight, but resetting like this means that 3-4 years are going to pass by before Dame/Nurk/Collins?/Lotto Pick1 are ready to compete highly.

If I was to trade CJ, I would not stop with him. Damian would also have to go. I would keep Nurkic since he is young enough and if he gets better then his value increases and if not his new deal would likely be running out by the time we would be ready to compete.

 

[BrianFromWA]

If I was to trade CJ, I would not stop with him. Damian would also have to go. I would keep Nurkic since he is young enough and if he gets better then his value increases and if not his new deal would likely be running out by the time we would be ready to compete.

I think if you tried that a Vulcan would send you on a one-way trip to the bottom of Lake Union on PA's bidding. Rich Cho barely escaped, and he had to go to CHA.

 

[riverman]

If I was to trade CJ, I would not stop with him. Damian would also have to go.

This just doesn't make sense to me....CJ I can see trading..Dame....not

 

[cmeese47]

Thanks, didn't have a chance to check owed picks. The point is we could easily acquire numerous assets for some of our pieces especially if we are willing to sit back for a few years and eat some bad contacts while we acquire pieces to rebuild around.

 

[cmeese47]

This just doesn't make sense to me....CJ I can see trading..Dame....not

My thought was either try and compete or completely tear it down and reset our window ala Philly.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Thanks, didn't have a chance to check owed picks. The point is we could easily acquire numerous assets for some of our pieces especially if we are willing to sit back for a few years and eat some bad contacts while we acquire pieces to rebuild around.

I see the point, but we're already the second-youngest team in the league behind PHI. And if we tore the entire thing down for lotto picks, the best we could hope for is a superstar and maybe another all-star caliber player or two. We kind of have the almost-superstar and the all-star caliber player. Players on their rookie contract (especially high lotto picks) generally never lead their teams to championships, so we're taking a 3-5 year pause to just get (hopefully) back to where we are right this second.

In my mind, that doesn't make sense. I mean, it seems as if Meyers/Mo were making the vet min and ET was making Ed Davis money (but we were still over the salary cap), people would be loving the fact that we're the highest above .500 that we've been in years and a couple of games out of the 3 seed. We're victims of skewed expectations and nitpicking. Yes, I want to see the roster get better. Yes, we're all kind of used to having GMs that wheel and deal. Yes, it's frustrating seeing other teams get better. But we're in "medicine-taking" mode with Meyers/Mo/ET and we should just enjoy seeing what this team can do. Maybe it's a first-round flameout. Maybe we steal a couple of games in the 2nd round. Maybe we make a miracle rip-off deal. But if you don't like watching this team play every night, I don't think you're going to like watching the 2003-2006 Blazers redux much more.

 

[lamlor]

Here is the problem as I see it; The only way to get to championship level is via the draft, but I have zero faith in Olshey's ability to draft. A team that can't attract free agents has to draft well and often yet Olshey trades a majority of picks and doesn't hit enough on the picks he does keep. Obviously he hit on Lillard, how much of that was the fact Allen fell in love with him is unknown, and on CJ though I never saw a CJ/Lillard backcourt as a good combo. I liked CJ as a 6th man while getting a bigger SG who was a shooter more than a scorer and who also could defend. That plan wouldn't work now because CJ quickly out grew the 6th man spot and deserves to start.

I hated the 2017 draft. While I am a huge Zags fan, I did not want Collins at all. He may be a serviceable bigman at some point, but he will never be a guy you trade a pick to move for and draft in the top 10. Swanigan has the heart and toughness to play the game, but lacks the unteachables. Then you lose a draft pick that could have been a Kuzma. Did anyone know he would be the player he has turned into? No, but that is why you use all 3 picks. It is a numbers game and you take a chance on a guy with his abilities (long and athletic). People argue that they didn't have the space for all 3 picks...really? Layman, Connaughton, and Vonleh are locks? For me all are non factors.

So for me any rebuilding starts with a real GM who not only knows talent but understands roster structure.

 

[cmeese47]

I see the point, but we're already the second-youngest team in the league behind PHI. And if we tore the entire thing down for lotto picks, the best we could hope for is a superstar and maybe another all-star caliber player or two. We kind of have the almost-superstar and the all-star caliber player. Players on their rookie contract (especially high lotto picks) generally never lead their teams to championships, so we're taking a 3-5 year pause to just get (hopefully) back to where we are right this second.

In my mind, that doesn't make sense. I mean, it seems as if Meyers/Mo were making the vet min and ET was making Ed Davis money (but we were still over the salary cap), people would be loving the fact that we're the highest above .500 that we've been in years and a couple of games out of the 3 seed. We're victims of skewed expectations and nitpicking. Yes, I want to see the roster get better. Yes, we're all kind of used to having GMs that wheel and deal. Yes, it's frustrating seeing other teams get better. But we're in "medicine-taking" mode with Meyers/Mo/ET and we should just enjoy seeing what this team can do. Maybe it's a first-round flameout. Maybe we steal a couple of games in the 2nd round. Maybe we make a miracle rip-off deal. But if you don't like watching this team play every night, I don't think you're going to like watching the 2003-2006 Blazers redux much more.

Under normal circumstances I would agree with you here, unfortunately there are a few caveats first the Golden State Warriors as long as they maintain their core 4 in good health they remain the overwhelming title favorites. That really hurts our prospect of building around our current core. The second being our cap situation we spent so much on guys like Leonard and Turner that have hamstrung our flexibility.

We did great getting a piece like Nurkic but its rare that teams are willing to dump players with his upside and age.

Lastly, while our team defense has been decent this year we severel lack the type of two way players that Golden State or even Houston. Philly has a top 5 defense and they missed a few times during their process. IMO defense wins titles, which is why I would suggest blowing up this core.

 

[LayneStaley]

Here is a trade idea, I came up with this morning have not checked all the details but it is worth talking about at least.

Would you trade, CJ and Ed Davis for Kuzma, Ingram, Clarkson and Deng plus picks?

I’d do the above trade in a minute.

 

[cmeese47]

Don't worry it looks like Neil based on the rumors is about ruin all of our days by dealing for Deandre Jordan. If we deal Nurkic for Jordan consider this the start of my petition to fire Olshey.

Unless he can also dump Turner and Leonard in the process.