An absence that speaks volumes

[maxiep]

I understand that President Obama is now too busy to celebrate the 20th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall, which signaled the end of the Cold War. So, he can head to Copenhagen to pitch the Olympics, he can stump in VA and NJ, but can't represent his country as the primary force in the victory over totalitarianism? For shame.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/11/03/behind_obamas_berlin_wall_snub_98993.html

You can bet your ass Presidents Clinton, Carter, Johnson, Kennedy and Truman would have made the trip.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

And yet Obama has already recieved more global respect than the last president did in two terms.

Internationally(outside the middle east), Obama is doing alright.

 

[maxiep]

And yet Obama has already recieved more global respect than the last president did in two terms.

Internationally(outside the middle east), Obama is doing alright.

It's easy to be loved abroad: apologize.

I prefer that someone stand strongly as an advocate for our country, the beacon of freedom for the rest of the world. We fought a 34 year war with over 100,000 casualties (Korea + Vietnam). Those people deserve to be honored for their sacrifice.

 

[BlazerWookee]

And yet Obama has already recieved more global respect than the last president did in two terms.

Internationally(outside the middle east), Obama is doing alright.

There's a reason why Obama is popular outside the United States. It's because he is actively weakening the power, influence, and credibility of the United States abroad.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

There's a reason why Obama is popular outside the United States. It's because he is actively weakening the power, influence, and credibility of the United States abroad.

We know that because Bush's fuck the world attitude gained the more influence and credibility abroad?

 

[maxiep]

We know that because Bush's fuck the world attitude gained the more influence and credibility abroad?

The world is a rough neighborhood. You project influence and credibility through willingness to act. Apologizing for your predecessor is the surest way to make sure the rest of the world treats you like the bitch of Cell Block H.

 

[ebott]

Maybe he doesn't wanna celebrate the nazi's escaping from the clutches of their communist overlords.

 

[Natebishop3]

If Bush is Obama's measuring stick, then many of you have set your expectations extremely low.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I don't see why Obama needs to go to this thing at all. It's been 20 years. Send the VP or Sec of State and tell them to place a wreath or something.

 

[Shooter]

And yet Obama has already recieved more global respect than the last president did in two terms.

Yeah, they loved him in Copenhagen. That's why they gave Chicago the Olympics.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Yeah, they loved him in Copenhagen. That's why they gave Chicago the Olympics.

You're right shooter . . . the world hates Obama.

 

[Shooter]

I prefer that someone stand strongly as an advocate for our country, the beacon of freedom for the rest of the world.

An advocate for our country??? Oh, c'mon, maxiep. Asking Obama to be an "advocate" for the United States is like asking him to go against every instinct in his body. It just ain't gonna happen.

On the other hand, if you need someone to slam our businesses, call us racists, and apoligize for all the "evil" we have done in the world--Obama's your man!!

 

[Shooter]

You're right shooter . . . the world hates Obama.

The world doesn't know Obama like we know Obama.

 

[bluefrog]

The world doesn't know Obama like we know Obama.

Agreed, If the world got to know Obama they'd see that he's an asshole that is actively weakening the power, influence, and credibility of the United States abroad. I mean, why even become president if that's what your goal is??!?!?!?

On the other hand, if they'd just spent a little more time getting to know George W. Bush, they'd see that he's an alright guy. He's really friendly and fun to hang out with.

 

[MARIS61]

The world doesn't know Obama like we know Obama.

Neither do you.

 

[MARIS61]

The cold war never ended at all, and the whole tear the wall down propaganda show was perhaps the emptiest symbolic event of the 20th Century.

Much ado about nothing.

 

[Eastoff]

It's easy to be loved abroad: apologize.

I prefer that someone stand strongly as an advocate for our country, the beacon of freedom for the rest of the world. We fought a 34 year war with over 100,000 casualties (Korea + Vietnam). Those people deserve to be honored for their sacrifice.

what does the vietnam war (helping france) and the korean police action (ending up even) have to do with the fall of the berlin wall? If you say communism, I say failing at colonialism.

 

[maxiep]

what does the vietnam war (helping france) and the korean police action (ending up even) have to do with the fall of the berlin wall? If you say communism, I say failing at colonialism.

Read about George Kennan and the theory of containment. Communism was viewed as monolithic, meaning Soviet communism and Chinese communism were considered to be the same (something later disproved). The key was to stop the spread of communism. We cared about Indochina, not becuase of the French, but because we didn't want Thailand and the Philippines going communist.

Vietnam and Korea were the primary areas where the Cold War became hot. There were also proxy conflicts in the Third World.

As for colonialism, which countries did we try to colonize? What America does is spill our blood for the freedom of other peoples. We don't try to build an empire. That's what makes America different--and better--than other nations.

 

[Eastoff]

Read about George Kennan and the theory of containment. Communism was viewed as monolithic, meaning Soviet communism and Chinese communism were considered to be the same (something later disproved). The key was to stop the spread of communism. We cared about Indochina, not becuase of the French, but because we didn't want Thailand and the Philippines going communist.

Vietnam and Korea were the primary areas where the Cold War became hot. There were also proxy conflicts in the Third World.

As for colonialism, which countries did we try to colonize? What America does is spill our blood for the freedom of other peoples. We don't try to build an empire. That's what makes America different--and better--than other nations.

and I'm calling "protecting the world from communism" another form of colonialism. They are afraid those "dumb natives" will think communism is okay! We went in there and tried to stop them and failed.

 

[maxiep]

and I'm calling "protecting the world from communism" another form of colonialism. They are afraid those "dumb natives" will think communism is okay! We went in there and tried to stop them and failed.

And that's silly. What do you think communism is? If you don't think "client state" is another term for "Soviet or Chinese colony", then I don't know what else to say to you. You don't think Poland, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Hungary, etc. were colonies of the USSR? In contrast, South Korea is one of Asia's strongest democracies. So is Japan. Let's head over to Europe and look at Italy, West Germany and Austria. Did any of those become single party states?

As for failure, we did exactly what we meant to do: stop communism from spreading. I've recommended the book before in the past few days, but read Leslie Gelb's "The Irony of Vietnam: The System Worked".

 

[barfo]

I don't quite see how the 20th anniversary of the fall of the wall is a must-do for the US president. The presidency is not a ceremonial job; that's the vice presidency. Send Biden.

Further, I suspect that those criticizing him for not going would probably be criticizing him if he did go - "Oh, another trip to Berlin, shouldn't he be dealing with problems at home instead of speaking to his beloved Europeans? Maybe he should be president of the EU instead." etc.

barfo

 

[The Sebastian Express]

I believe Maxie and the original author's point was that Obama shrugging off going to this event in light of his trip to attempt to gain the Olympics is somewhat of an insult. This would be an excellent gesture on Obama's part - acknowledging a big moment in history and gaining good will with the Germans. Instead he declines Merkel's invite to the event when just a short while ago he made a somewhat irrelevant stop in Copenhagen to try to use his stature to gain the Olympic games. I had no problem with his attempts to do so, but if he can make the effort for a treasured athletic past time he can make the effort to acknowledge the fall and defeat of the Cold War. There would be absolutely nothing to lose for him going to Berlin, nothing at all, and this was a misstep and blunder on his part to decline the invitation.

 

[Shooter]

If he can make the effort for a treasured athletic past time he can make the effort to acknowledge the fall and defeat of the Cold War. There would be absolutely nothing to lose for him going to Berlin, nothing at all, and this was a misstep and blunder on his part to decline the invitation.

Actually, it was the "fall" of the Soviet Union . . . wars are not "defeated," but nations are.

That being said, liberals hate to acknowledge the end of communism, because the communist system is so dear to their heart. Check your history, and you'll see that many liberals in the U.S. were staunch supporters of Stalin in the 1930s and 1940s, and believed that the USSR was a kind of heaven on earth.

As a marxist, Obama has no wish to commemorate the end of a system which he believed in.

 

[Eastoff]

And that's silly. What do you think communism is? If you don't think "client state" is another term for "Soviet or Chinese colony", then I don't know what else to say to you. You don't think Poland, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Hungary, etc. were colonies of the USSR? In contrast, South Korea is one of Asia's strongest democracies. So is Japan. Let's head over to Europe and look at Italy, West Germany and Austria. Did any of those become single party states?

As for failure, we did exactly what we meant to do: stop communism from spreading. I've recommended the book before in the past few days, but read Leslie Gelb's "The Irony of Vietnam: The System Worked".

I would agree that the soviet states were more like colonies as were the Asian attempts at communism. But Indochina was clearly a colony and we tried to help prop it up, not for the people's interests but for our own fear of communism.

Would you not agree that we forced our views onto Japan and Germany after WW2?

 

[Eastoff]

Actually, it was the "fall" of the Soviet Union . . . wars are not "defeated," but nations are.

That being said, liberals hate to acknowledge the end of communism, because the communist system is so dear to their heart. Check your history, and you'll see that many liberals in the U.S. were staunch supporters of Stalin in the 1930s and 1940s, and believed that the USSR was a kind of heaven on earth.

As a marxist, Obama has no wish to commemorate the end of a system which he believed in.

As a Cannibal, George W Bush does not see Zombie movies because he does not want to see his people mocked.

 

[maxiep]

I would agree that the soviet states were more like colonies as were the Asian attempts at communism. But Indochina was clearly a colony and we tried to help prop it up, not for the people's interests but for our own fear of communism.

General Paul Ely (French COS) came to Washington in 1954 and asked for US military assistance to relieve the forces under seige at Dien Bien Phu. We responded that if we did intervene, we would want freedom for the Associated States (the states that comprised French Indochina). When the French wouldn't agree to our terms, we let the French suffer defeat at DBP and as a result Indochina.

Certainly, containing communism was first and foremost in our mind, but so was democracy. Then again, democracy is in our self-interest. There hasn't been a recorded even of two legitimately elected democracies going to war against each other.

Would you not agree that we forced our views onto Japan and Germany after WW2?

Look at the terms we put upon Germany and Japan in 1945 and compare them with the terms put on any defeated nation by any victor in the annals of human conflict. Never has the victor helped the defeated so much in history. We didn't ask for reparations. Instead, all we asked for a piece of land to bury our dead.

We helped them build democratic institutions, with the only restrictions being no Fascist parties, which were the parties that gave us Hitler and Tojo. We allowed Japan to keep their Emporer. I'm not even sure we outlawed communist parties. In other words, we allowed the German and Japanese people to express their voices that had long been surpressed by their previous leaders.

 

[Eastoff]

So MaxieP, do you feel Obama is hurting the campaign against communism? Or is it simply a matter of respect?

 

[MARIS61]

Actually, it was the "fall" of the Soviet Union . . . wars are not "defeated," but nations are.

That being said, liberals hate to acknowledge the end of communism, because the communist system is so dear to their heart. Check your history, and you'll see that many liberals in the U.S. were staunch supporters of Stalin in the 1930s and 1940s, and believed that the USSR was a kind of heaven on earth.

As a marxist, Obama has no wish to commemorate the end of a system which he believed in.

You throw democrats, liberals, communists, anarchists, socialists, facists, muslims, citizens of France, and left-handed gay lawyers together like they are a common enemy sharing the same views.

And communisn never "ended". It is still the most popular form of government in the world today.

 

[PapaG]

Obama was raised by Communists and mentored by Communists. The head of the SEIU has made 43 visits to the WH thus far into Obama's presidency. Why in the world would anybody expect him to celebrate the anniversary of communisms biggest defeat?

Seriously?