Appreciating Durant Greatness....

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KD is a damned good player. Got it.

Go Blazers
 
Jagged pill tell Oden plays 70 games and averages 15.2/13.6/3.9b and no one knows how to stop him.
 
Check out #7 and especially #1. Helps the pill go down a tiny bit.

[video=youtube;_E2QwDxqokw]
 
Seems like Groundhogs Day around here regarding Durant.

Luckily, KD has the easiest argument of all "great" players: Come back and tell me he's great when he's actually led his team to a playoff series victory. Enough said.

He can put up 50/20/20 next season and win the MVP, but if he has a 16.6 PER in the playoffs and leads a fully healthy team to a one-and-out yet again in the first round, he's still Fools Gold.
 
espn_hall_of_famer said:
Seems like Groundhogs Day around here regarding Durant.

Luckily, KD has the easiest argument of all "great" players: Come back and tell me he's great when he's actually led his team to a playoff series victory. Enough said.

He can put up 50/20/20 next season and win the MVP, but if he has a 16.6 PER in the playoffs and leads a fully healthy team to a one-and-out yet again in the first round, he's still Fools Gold.
Click to expand...

I'm all down to say "Durant can't lead his team to a playoff series win." But everytime I try to say it I just think the same thing about Roy. Next year should answer a lot of questions regarding both teams. I don't want to be saying the same thing next year I did last year "How can you win a playoff series when your best player is injured your starting center is injured and your best defender is playing one armed?"
 
Rhal said:
I'm all down to say "Durant can't lead his team to a playoff series win." But everytime I try to say it I just think the same thing about Roy. Next year should answer a lot of questions regarding both teams. I don't want to be saying the same thing next year I did last year "How can you win a playoff series when your best player is injured your starting center is injured and your best defender is playing one armed?"
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I wouldn't disagree with that.

But then again, that's why we have Oden. I'd love to see anyone outside of a 7'6 experienced Yao Ming stop him in a playoff series. I think by the time we get to the playoffs, Oden will finally be a rolling machine as far as learning the mismatches and the other guys on the court running the ball through him at least once on every normal walk-up possession up the floor.

That will be the difference.
 
I almost forgot that 'PER' is the one thing that prevents the Kevin Durant ordeal rendered catastrophic.

If only this tell all stat never existed. Hmm.
 
Sex Panther said:
I almost forgot that 'PER' is the one thing that prevents the Kevin Durant ordeal rendered catastrophic.

If only this tell all stat never existed. Hmm.
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If that and other advanced stats never existed, we'd make a lot of mistakes, agreed. Thank goodness people keep advancing knowledge as years go by. :)

And PER thinks the world of Durant. I know it's sad that PER also thinks Oden is pretty damn good when healthy. Just take the good with the bad, guy.
 
RoyToy said:
If the Blazers drafted him he'd be on the Blazers right now.
Click to expand...

Wait a minute...is that right? Do you have a source for that? Because that just seems wrong.

If you're right, it really changes things.
 
Minstrel said:
If that and other advanced stats never existed, we'd make a lot of mistakes, agreed. Thank goodness people keep advancing knowledge as years go by. :)

And PER thinks the world of Durant. I know it's sad that PER also thinks Oden is pretty damn good when healthy. Just take the good with the bad, guy.
Click to expand...

haha, 'guy'.

and FWIW, I have no problem with PER; in fact, I actually think it's a good stat. Just not a measuring stick.
 
Sex Panther said:
haha, 'guy'.

and FWIW, I have no problem with PER; in fact, I actually think it's a good stat. Just not a measuring stick.
Click to expand...

PER is an awesome stat, and many fans here like it, except when tit doesn't tell the correct story. <cough>Wesley Matthews</cough>
 
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Minstrel said:
Wait a minute...is that right? Do you have a source for that? Because that just seems wrong.

If you're right, it really changes things.
Click to expand...

Here's the kicker though

Although the Blazers didn't draft Durant, he was actually AVAILABLE if the Blazers wanted to draft him, which would mean he could have been a Blazer. This news has certainly not been brought up by anyone.

Instead they drafted Oden, which made him a Blazer and not Durant, because Durant wasn't drafted by the Blazers, and instead was drafted by, get this, a team that doesn't even exist. Wow....wow.

All of this leads me to one question: Who exactly drafted Kevin Durant? Does he even exist?
 
BGrantFan said:
PER is an awesome stat, and many fans here like it, except when tit doesn't tell the correct story. <cough>Wesley Matthews</cough>
Click to expand...

I apologize. oldguy's avatar distracted me in an odd and uncomfortable way.
 
Sex Panther said:
and FWIW, I have no problem with PER; in fact, I actually think it's a good stat. Just not a measuring stick.
Click to expand...

No stat is a great measuring stick all by itself. I think PER is one of the better ways to get quick overview of a player's productivity while on the floor, but it's not a precise tool. If one player has a 23 PER and one player has a 21 PER, I don't think that's terribly conclusive as to whom is better.

Plus, PER doesn't account for defense in any significant way. There has to be a mix of metrics as well as some observation, especially for defense.
 
Minstrel said:
No stat is a great measuring stick all by itself. I think PER is one of the better ways to get quick overview of a player's productivity while on the floor, but it's not a precise tool. If one player has a 23 PER and one player has a 21 PER, I don't think that's terribly conclusive as to whom is better.

Plus, PER doesn't account for defense in any significant way. There has to be a mix of metrics as well as some observation, especially for defense.
Click to expand...

fair enough
 
"Fools Gold" ?

BUT, if Insider's measuring stick is used then ultimately, we need to classify players like Malone, Stockton, Drexler (in Portland), Lebron James, Elgin Baylor, Ewing, Gervin, Wilkins, Terry Porter, Sabonis, and the like as all "fools gold".

Does that mean we can't appreciate them as amazing athletes and admire their skill? Some Blazer fans are so overcompensating for taking Oden before Durant, that genuine appreciation for Durant's abilities isn't conceivable.

Many "great" players don't go on to win championships. Elites do... Note the thread title. Would you argue Durant is currently a "great player" in the NBA and his upside, considering his youth and current contributions, is rather high?

Durant is what, 21 years old?
I'd wager Durant ends his career with more championships than Oden. Any takers?
 
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Targus said:
"Fools Gold" ?

BUT, if Insider's measuring stick is used then ultimately, we need to classify players like Malone, Stockton, Drexler (in Portland), Lebron James, Elgin Baylor, Ewing, Gervin, Wilkins, Terry Porter, Sabonis, and the like as all "fools gold".

Does that mean we can't appreciate them as amazing athletes and admire their skill? Some Blazer fans are so overcompensating for taking Oden before Durant, that genuine appreciation for Durant's abilities isn't conceivable.

Many "great" players don't go on to win championships. Elites do... Note the thread title. Would you argue Durant is currently a "great player" in the NBA and his upside, considering his youth and current contributions, is rather high?

Durant is what, 21 years old?
I'd wager Durant ends his career with more championships than Oden. Any takers?
Click to expand...

Don't know who "Insdier" is, but I quoted the Fool's Gold, and I did so in a different context than you're referencing if you read my post.

I wasn't saying anything about winning championship. I think we can all agree it takes either a superstar player and a good team or a great players on a super team. You're obviously going to get superstar players like LeBron, Ewing, Stockton, etc. that didn't have the team around them to make it all the way to a ring.

I'm referencing Fool's Gold in the context of a great player (which I'll admit he is definitely a great player in the top 20 of the league) that tucks back into his shell come the playoffs and goes one-and-out. Until he can lead his team out of the first round (or at least not watch his production fall off the charts when he gets a high pressure game in front of him) then scoring even 50ppg is just Fool's Gold - it looks good on the outside but doesn't really provide any value when it matters.
 
I shouldn't hate Kevin Durant. I actually don't regret that we didn't take him just because I don't really like his game. He's a great shooter, and a good scorer, but he's (and this is stupid, I know) very funny-looking and he doesn't/can't (too spindly) play very good defense. And what he's best at is being an unblockable jump-shooter. So he's sort of Dirk Nowitzki-esque, and I never coveted Nowitzki.

Plus, he seems to be a very decent kid. He's remaining loyal to Oklahoma City, which takes a lot of doing, given that it's a podunk hell-hole. So good for Oklahoma, and good for Durant, I say. But then people KEEP BRINGING UP the Durant vs. Oden thing. Just stop it, will you? You're making me wish he had, at the very least, a non-career threatening season-ending injury just so people like you would SHUT THE FUCK UP, at least for a while.

Even if Oden spontaneously combusts tomorrow and Durant suddenly morphs into Scottie Pippen on defense, IT'S OVER AND DONE WITH. We seem to have moved past the much more obviously stupid Martell Webster over Chris Paul, so can we move on? Maybe for those who can't we can have a special separate forum called: "Supposed Blazer fans who are lovestruck with Kevin Durant" and you can all fuck off there.
 
"that tucks back into his shell come the playoffs"

I compared Durant's and Oden's playoff stats to each other on a different thread.

"....f*-off"..."

We will always compare Durant and Oden but I appreciate the profanity and kind regards.
 
Targus said:
"that tucks back into his shell come the playoffs"

I compared Durant's and Oden's playoff stats to each other on a different thread
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Fair enough. But then again, I haven't seen many threads and links going on and on about Oden being a top-10 player and MVP candidate and how "great" he is. Oden is a defensive player who will affect the opposing teams by lowering their points allowed 4-5 pts more than every other center other than maybe Dwight Howard. That's his value, not putting up 30ppg or dominating Yao in the playoffs.

And if memory serves me correct, I remember a rookie Shaq being dominated by Hakeem (or maybe it was Robinson, can't quite remember now) and the announcers talking about how Shaq is getting his initiation into the NBA by someone 50-times better than Shaq had ever seen in his life. So I think that was similar to Oden and Yao in Greg's one playoff series. I'd love to see him match up against Duncan or Bynum. But as I said, that wasn't even the point since nobody was claiming Oden was a "great player".
 
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At the start of last season, Portland began with 12 wins and 8 losses before Oden went down on Dec 5th. Following Oden's loss, Portland continued the trend with 5 wins and 4 losses until Joel went down.

I understand what you're saying, however, I don't think the stats are accounting for the loss of Joel too. We were truly without a legit center and of course that will impact opponent scoring.

Simplistic approach: Oden averaged 1.3 more blocks than Durant and Durant average 1 more steal. Rebounds are comparable.

Durant is OK's leader. Last season, the Thunder rank in the top 10 in rebounding, fast-break points and steals and 11th out of 30 in points allowed.

Oden is replaceable. Durant is not.
 
"But then again, I haven't seen many threads and links going on and on about Durant being a top-10 player and MVP candidate and how "great" he is."

Now you have:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...top-10-mvp-candidates-for-next-season#page/11

http://protectthepaint.com/2010/02/24/kevin-durant-mvp-candidate/

http://www.bukisa.com/articles/232860_top-three-2010-nba-mvp-candidates

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/02/05/racetothemvp.week14/

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/11/27/racetomvp.week4/index.html

http://www.nesn.com/2010/09/kevin-d...n-james-kobe-bryant-grab-first-mvp-award.html

http://lakersblog.latimes.com/lakersblog/2010/08/kevin-durant-is-mvp-favorite-over-kobe-bryant.html

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/35243503/ns/sports-nba/

These are just a few. Literally hundreds more...
 
Targus said:
Oden is replaceable. Durant is not.
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While True, Oden can bring us a championship just any replacement will not. We are a defensive minded team, and G.O. is here to anchor that defense. Defense wins championships, and a healthy G.O. gives us the greatest chance at getting one. No Point in comparing him to KD really.
 
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