Are People Sleeping On Wallace and Mathews?

[LameR]

I just think it's interesting how often Wallace gets overlooked. What are you guys expecting from him this year? I felt like after 5-6 games with us last year, he found his groove and was our 2nd best player by far. Then I hear people talking about clearing the way for Batum, who has done a decent job, but it's a little odd to me that people seem so quick to want to ship a guy of all-star, all-defense caliber. Is it the injury history? Is it the unconventional style of play? With Roy gone, and someone other than just Aldridge needing to step up, I could definitely see Wallace being that guy, especially being reunited with Felton.

As far as Mathews goes, I don't expect him to become anything incredible, but the guy can shoot the three great, and it may be even better with Felton facilitating.

I think both of these guys have a bigger load on their shoulders this year with Roy and Oden gone. Batum and Crawford will fill in for some scoring, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Wallace average 17-20 ppg. Mathews, I think 14-17 is reasonable. The thing I love about both of these guys is how hard they play. I hope it doesn't result in injuries, but it definitely is a possibility. What do you guys think?

 

[Natebishop3]

I think a little bit, but mostly it's people looking at his age and the fact that a lot of people don't expect much out of this team this year.

 

[Draco]

I agree on Wallace. I think fans have a tendency to love the young guys before they've proven themselves, and underestimate veterans as they enter their 30's. Remember how many years we heard Outlaw is "still only 22" or Martell would be a junior next year if he went to college. Heck, even Miles was younger then Batum is now and had accomplished more on the court when we gave him that horrible contract. I'm hoping we don't make the same mistake with Batum.

Teams and fans continuously overvalue their own youth and assume the best case development scenarios, when if you look at historical data the chance of a mid-tier player becoming an all-star is extremely low. You just don't see wing players in their 4th year in the league develop from a bench player to a stud starter. It’s far more likely a 27 year old all-star, as Gerald was, continues to perform as an above average starter into his mid 30’s.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I am sleeping on Wallace and Matthews because we have an offense that relies on jump shots, and Wallace doesn't shoot really well. Matthews is a reserve forced to play a starters role

 

[jlprk]

Yes! I've noticed the same about Gerald Wallace (not so Matthews).

This board has forgotten that Wallace was 3 times as good as Batum, after he arrived late last season. There was no comparison, and the board was unanimous. Now they're all eager to dump Wallace to make time for the inferior Batum. (e.g. for nothing but draft picks.)

Some even want Batum to start at guard! Yeah right!

I don't see a similar eagerness to dump Matthews.

 

[HailBlazers]

I am sleeping on Wallace because we have an offense that relies on jump shots, and Wallace doesn't shoot really well.

+1

His success (on offense) will be determined by our ball and player movement.

 

[Draco]

Another point I would make is to look at how much turnover there is on an NBA roster. LaMarcus and Batum are the only players that have played more then one full season in Portland. Most likely our players will only stick around a couple of seasons. So for those few years we have a player we need to retain the guy that gives us the best contributions now. Most likely the young guys will be on a different team years down the road.

 

[Mediocre Man]

+1

His success (on offense) we be determined by our ball and player movement.

Ya. If we can actually move the ball on offense then Wallace will be fine

 

[magnifier661]

I agree with everything op said but the exception of "with oden gone". We've been living without oden pretty much his entire career. So I think that's a moot point.

 

[jlprk]

I agree with everything op said but the exception of "with oden gone". We've been living without oden pretty much his entire career. So I think that's a moot point.

You sure have done a 180. Just a month ago, you were the guy always talking about Oden's return. Then you announced you were giving up. When you change, you really change.

 

[KingSpeed]

LameR- I agree with everything you said.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I, for one, haven't been "sleeping on Wallace" as much as realizing that he's more valuable around the league than he is to us long-term.

If he's on the team, he's the starting 3 unless (until?) Nic proves he can beat him out for the spot. But if someone thinks that they'd rather have Wallace for 17 months (tops) rather than, say 4 draft picks or something, then they're welcome to him, and thank you for your service, Crash.

 

[DeanMoriarty]

Wallace has always been one of the most underrated players, especially at his position. Outside of Durant, Lebron, and Carmello, the guy is the only other "great" small forward out there. Even good scorers like Granger, Gay, or even Melo and Durant can't bring the defensive intensity that Wallace brings. Plus, he's a great rebounder for his position.

If Melo, Bron, and Durant are Tier 1 Small Forwards, then Wallace is the best Tier 2 Small Forward in the league.

As for Matthews, he's definitely a Tier 2 Shooting Guard but he's more like a Rudy Gay or Loul Deng than he is Gerald Wallace. Plus he plays for the Blazers. Just alone for that, he will automatically be slept on. If he ever develops a passing game, he'd be the next Joe Johnson...aka the best shooting guard of Tier 2 shooting guards. Until then, he'll be good and might even get into an all-star game or two, especially if Kobe gets injured, but people expecting anything more than that are likely to be disappointed. To me, I'm hoping he doesn't end up a John Starks type of guy who can shoot you in or out of a game because I don't know if it's just me but I can see a little bit of that in Matthews.

 

[handiman]

Another point I would make is to look at how much turnover there is on an NBA roster. LaMarcus and Batum are the only players that have played more then one full season in Portland.

Is Oden excluded because he's only played partial seasons, and not enough to add up to more than one full season?

Regardless, that's a pretty surprising stat.

 

[magnifier661]

You sure have done a 180. Just a month ago, you were the guy always talking about Oden's return. Then you announced you were giving up. When you change, you really change.

Woah there nelly!!! I still believe that Oden will rock our rocks off. I still think he's gonna be back this season, and I am 100% looking through this world with rose colored glasses. What I'm saying is we haven't seen so far Oden, so saying "with him gone" doesn't make a difference. He's never been one yet.

 

[Nikolokolus]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ *snort* ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

 

[LameR]

Originally in making this thread it was solely about Wallace, but I was curious about opinions on Wes as well. He's obviously not at the same level as Wallace, but I don't think he's a tier below Batum by any means, and I read people saying Aldridge and Batum are the future.

 

[B-Roy]

Originally in making this thread it was solely about Wallace, but I was curious about opinions on Wes as well. He's obviously not at the same level as Wallace, but I don't think he's a tier below Batum by any means, and I read people saying Aldridge and Batum are the future.

Maybe not now, but Batum has got a lot more potential.

Ah, the P word, don't we love it.

 

[magnifier661]

And I remembered watching Wes get like 20 points in a quarter. That's really hard to do. I think it's gonna take some time to sink in because so many of us wanted Roy back or thought Roy would eventually come back. Now that's gone, I believe new hope will sink in with Matthews. He's a great player and we should be very lucky to have him. Only 2 years in the league, he has a lot of upside.

 

[B-Roy]

And I remembered watching Wes get like 20 points in a quarter. That's really hard to do. I think it's gonna take some time to sink in because so many of us wanted Roy back or thought Roy would eventually come back. Now that's gone, I believe new hope will sink in with Matthews. He's a great player and we should be very lucky to have him. Only 2 years in the league, he has a lot of upside.

He came into the league very late. He's already 25 years old. I doubt he has much upside left.

 

[magnifier661]

He came into the league very late. He's already 25 years old. I doubt he has much upside left.

I disagree. Age isn't the only factor. It's learning the speed, ropes and intangibles in the nba. There's something to be said about Kurt Thomas. His experience yet faded skills hold great value.

 

[LameR]

Maybe not now, but Batum has got a lot more potential.

Ah, the P word, don't we love it.

What does Batum look like if he reaches his potential, and is that better than Gerald Wallace is now? Because I understand Batum will grow more than Wallace will, but they aren't even comparable in terms of ability currently. I think Batum will improve more, but I don't think he'll have the kind of impact Wallace does (now or in the future).

 

[B-Roy]

I disagree. Age isn't the only factor. It's learning the speed, ropes and intangibles in the nba. There's something to be said about Kurt Thomas. His experience yet faded skills hold great value.

I didn't say he had no upside left, but I can't see him making a big leap like Batum can.

 

[DeanMoriarty]

I didn't say he had no upside left, but I can't see him making a big leap like Batum can.

Exactly.

Matthews has tunnel vision. He'll increase his ppg as time goes on but he doesn't really have the abilities to be a playmaker. That's not something people develop as they get older. Not saying it can't happen but there's a good reason you're likely to hear how players become better shooters as they age but very rarely do they become better playmakers. I hope he does and helps propel the Blazers but it's not very likely. It has to do with demeanor. He's more John Starks than he is Brandon Roy.

Batum, as young and incomplete he may be now or ever, still has shown glimpses of becoming a complete player. He might never utilize the tools but because of these consistent glimpses, his potential is deemed 'greater' by the fans and, in this case, other GM's and scouts.

But we'll see. Matthews could prove everyone wrong. For that matter, I really do hope Matthews takes it to the next level and becomes a great shooting guard and Batum becomes the next Pippen.

 

[jlprk]

The limited abilities of Matthews are optimized to McMillan's system. For Batum it's the opposite. He has potential skills similar to Pippen but will never balance them now. It's too late.

Once McMillan has gotten into your head for a year or two, you have tunnel vision about putting defense ahead of offense every second of the game. You lose your fluid offensive instincts.

McMillan has a similar zombie hypnotism over fans. Once he stares into your eyes you forget how fun and exciting a team can play, and you accept your boring lifelong slavery like a workhorse.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ *snort* ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

that is exactly how i pictured a flying pig would sound too

 

[TripTango]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ *snort* ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Hey you! Wake up and get the hell off of those two basketball players!