Are the Suns and Hawks disproving the idea that you need multiple superstars to win?

[Natebishop3]

Phoenix has Booker, who is a legit superstar at this point, but Paul is an aging star and Ayton is a really good player but not a superstar by any means.

Atlanta has Trae, who will have vaulted himself up a few tiers after these playoffs, and they have Collins, but hardly any other superstars on that team.

This isn't the Lakers with LeBron and AD or the Clippers with Kawhi and PG13 or Golden State with Curry/Durant.

Are the Suns and Hawks proving that good coaching can take a team with only one real star and make them into a legit contender? Obviously their roster construction is better than teams like Portland. But there has been this belief that you need multiple superstars to win rings lately. This season might disprove that.

 

[e_blazer]

They’re proving that having a really good team can get you a shot at a title when the “great” teams suffer an injury or two.

 

[Mr. Robot]

not really, injuries in brooklyn & lakers (and clippers to lesser degree, but i dont trust them even with kawhi) pretty much determined the outcome of the season

joel embiids best teammates were tobias harris & seth curry (let that sink in), but even so, they shouldve beat the hawks, but they choked two games with big leads (18 & 26 if im not wrong)

hawks and suns are well coached and deep teams, but they had no business being in the conference finals (same as bucks), but it is what it is, something like this hasnt happened in 9 or 10 years, when mavs won the chip... i think in the last 15 years there were two teams that went into the finals and won and it wasnt something most people expected... for this season you could say: "shit happens"

 

[Natebishop3]

not really, injuries in brooklyn & lakers (and clippers to lesser degree, but i dont trust them even with kawhi) pretty much determined the outcome of the season

joel embiids best teammates were tobias harris & seth curry (let that sink in), but even so, they shouldve beat the hawks, but they choked two games with big leads (18 & 26 if im not wrong)

hawks and suns are well coached and deep teams, but they had no business being in the conference finals (same as bucks), but it is what it is, something like this hasnt happened in 9 or 10 years, when mavs won the chip... i think in the last 15 years there were two teams that went into the finals and won and it wasnt something most people expected... for this season you could say: "shit happens"

Doesn't that just prove you shouldn't hang all your hopes on two or three guys? Even the Bulls back in 93 were still so good that they lost MJ and still made it to the ECF with only Pip. The Clippers were shit last year with their superstars.

The Raptors won with only one 20+ ppg scorer.

The Spurs won without a single 20+ ppg scorer.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Chris Paul and Devin Booker are both 2020 and 2021 all stars. CP3 is a first ballot Hall of Famer.

Ayton is probably gonna be an all-star next year due to his visibility and growth.

 

[ehizzy3]

Too early to say but I think the west is and will be wide open for the next couple of years so hopefully we try and make a push

If it wasn’t for injuries the Nets would’ve swept the East

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Too early to say but I think the west is and will be wide open for the next couple of years so hopefully we try and make a push

If it wasn’t for injuries the Nets would’ve swept the East

This was the year, too bad we fumbled the bag. No truly dominant team.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Not sure how CP3 can clear Covid protocols this fast when he tested positive 6 days ago. If this was earlier in Covid there would be a discussion about this. Oh well I'm glad he's playing though.

 

[Mr. Robot]

clippers lost last season cause:

a) doc rivers
b) they had a great quality on paper, but no chemistry whatsoever

i wasnt impressed with them in the 1st round or the 2nd round with kawhi (they are sort of impressive since kawhi went down and they shouldve won game 2 against the suns) and theyre playing without ibaka too, so well see how the rest of the series will go, suns will get cp3 back tonight... if kawhi is out for the rest of the season, its better for the nba that suns go to the finals

raptors won cause gsw team was depleted with injuries (we cant forget that historic lucky bounce either), but they were really good team... kawhi is a superstar, lowry is an all-star, siakam was playing at an all-star level, gasol was their defensive anchor, vanvleet great role player, ibaka, they were really deep team, sort of like bucks or suns this season

spurs won 4 chips with timmy, ginobili & parker + pop, they were soldiers, a really well oiled machine... they wouldve won one more chip if not for ray allen corner three, i cant even imagine how did that felt

 

[Mediocre Man]

I don’t think so.

It does show that having a good team can get you a ways in the playoffs in great teams have injuries. Portland is a prime example a couple of years ago when we made it to the WCF

 

[Natebishop3]

Chris Paul and Devin Booker are both 2020 and 2021 all stars. CP3 is a first ballot Hall of Famer.

Ayton is probably gonna be an all-star next year due to his visibility and growth.

Paul averaged 16 and 9 this season. Those are not superstar numbers. Those are really not even All-Star numbers. Dude got in on name recognition and their record.

Ayton's star is definitely on the rise, but dude averaged 14 and 10. Again..... not superstar numbers. Maybe not even All-Star numbers. It's hard for centers to make the team.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Paul averaged 16 and 9 this season. Those are not superstar numbers. Those are really not even All-Star numbers. Dude got in on name recognition and their record.

Ayton's star is definitely on the rise, but dude averaged 14 and 10. Again..... not superstar numbers. Maybe not even All-Star numbers. It's hard for centers to make the team.

Paul literally made the all star team last year and this year. To say that he currently isn't a superstar in the league is ridiculous.

His numbers aren't his contribution or why he's an all star, he's not a stat padder. He's a stable leader with a high Bball IQ.

 

[Natebishop3]

Paul literally made the all star team last year and this year. To say that he currently isn't a superstar in the league is ridiculous.

His numbers aren't his contribution or why he's an all star, he's not a stat padder. He's a stable leader with a high Bball IQ.

And if we were a top 2 seed and CJ was healthy, he would have been an All-Star. Does that make him a superstar?

He was once a superstar. Best point guard in the league. He's not that guy anymore. He's still really good though.

 

[e_blazer]

Not sure how CP3 can clear Covid protocols this fast when he tested positive 6 days ago. If this was earlier in Covid there would be a discussion about this. Oh well I'm glad he's playing though.

Protocols to return are shorter if you’re vaccinated.

 

[tykendo]

I could see this being the new normal. LeBron has Father Time looking at him eye to eye. Davis returned to who he is, injury prone. The Nets big 3 have injury history. There is no guaranty any of these Super Teams can stay healthy. The NBA is a game of attrition . Look at the '77-'78 Blazers with Walton. Cruising after a Championship run the previous season, and Bam! Walton goes down, end of potential Dynasty run. Is what it is. Build the best team you can, pray you stay healthy, and give it a run.

 

[STOMP]

Paul literally made the all star team last year and this year. To say that he currently isn't a superstar in the league is ridiculous.

His numbers aren't his contribution or why he's an all star, he's not a stat padder. He's a stable leader with a high Bball IQ.

"We don't need Chris Paul, we have Sebastian Telfair!"

-John Nash 16 years ago

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

And if we were a top 2 seed and CJ was healthy, he would have been an All-Star. Does that make him a superstar?

He was once a superstar. Best point guard in the league. He's not that guy anymore. He's still really good though.

Now your putting qualifiers on the thought that you need multiple all stars to win a championship, which invalidates your entire premise.

"Well, he's not a REAL all star according to my personal analysis, even though he technically is".

 

[Natebishop3]

Now your putting qualifiers on the thought that you need multiple all stars to win a championship, which invalidates your entire premise.

"Well, he's not a REAL all star according to my personal analysis, even though he technically is".

I said superstars. The damn title of the thread is SUPERSTARS.

You started putting it on All-Star selections.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I said superstars. The damn title of the thread is SUPERSTARS.

You started putting it on All-Star selections.

So Chris Paul, NBA first ballot hall of famer, all star this year and last, who turned non-playoff team into an instant title contender isn't a superstar....because his ppg and asg are slightly down.....

Got it.

 

[Natebishop3]

So Chris Paul, NBA first ballot hall of famer, all star this year and last, who turned non-playoff team into an instant title contender isn't a superstar....because his ppg and asg are slightly down.....

Got it.

Did the bubble not happen last year? Am I missing something? They were the hottest team in the bubble. The team was good. They finally matured. Adding Paul was the piece that took them the next step, but come on man.... you think CP3 is the same player he was 10 years ago?

Is Melo the same player he was 10 years ago? Is he a superstar? First ballot hall of famer?

He's still really good.... but a superstar? One of the very best in the game? He's not even a top 3 point guard.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Did the bubble not happen last year? Am I missing something? They were the hottest team in the bubble. The team was good. They finally matured. Adding Paul was the piece that took them the next step, but come on man.... you think CP3 is the same player he was 10 years ago?

Is Melo the same player he was 10 years ago?

He's still really good.... but a superstar? One of the very best in the game? He's not even a top 3 point guard.

How far did they get in the playoffs last year?

Did Melo make an allstar team? CP3 did this year and last.

 

[GDiama]

And if we were a top 2 seed and CJ was healthy, he would have been an All-Star. Does that make him a superstar?

He was once a superstar. Best point guard in the league. He's not that guy anymore. He's still really good though.

CP3 finished 5th in MVP voting. I think that's pretty good.

 

[Natebishop3]

How far did they get in the playoffs last year?

Did Melo make an allstar team? CP3 did this year and last.

Do you want me to start listing off the joke All-Star selections to disprove that team as any kind of indicator of actual skill?

Here's a pretty good list
https://www.sportscasting.com/worst-nba-all-star-selections-of-all-time/

The Suns went undefeated in the bubble and missed out of the playoffs. There's nothing more they could do. Not making it doesn't disprove that they had turned a corner in the bubble.

 

[Natebishop3]

CP3 finished 5th in MVP voting. I think that's pretty good.

Again.... he's a good player. I didn't say he's not a good player. I said he's not a superstar anymore. The fact that they're still winning without him is a pretty good indication of who should have been the MVP candidate on that team.

 

[Shaboid]

Again.... he's a good player. I didn't say he's not a good player. I said he's not a superstar anymore. The fact that they're still winning without him is a pretty good indication of who should have been the MVP candidate on that team.

He can still be valuable, and in fact the most valuable, from the sidelines.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Do you want me to start listing off the joke All-Star selections to disprove that team as any kind of indicator of actual skill?

Here's a pretty good list
https://www.sportscasting.com/worst-nba-all-star-selections-of-all-time/

The Suns went undefeated in the bubble and missed out of the playoffs. There's nothing more they could do. Not making it doesn't disprove that they had turned a corner in the bubble.

And now you're using the bubble as an indicator of NBA performance or consistent patterns? Jesus, just take the L and move on.

 

[GDiama]

Again.... he's a good player. I didn't say he's not a good player. I said he's not a superstar anymore. The fact that they're still winning without him is a pretty good indication of who should have been the MVP candidate on that team.

Well he is not superstar like Durant, but he is also not CJ McCollum. And with the game on the line he is more of a superstar compared to guys like Harden, Embiid etc. The way the Suns are built doesn't really need from Paul to score or assist more. He is really great out there and his impact on winning is much bigger compared to guys that score 30 points like Beal.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Chris Paul is a little bitch. F that guy.

He is the only player in the league that would cause me to stop following the blazers if we got him.

 

[Ed O]

I think the answer, which so many people seem to be arguing against for some reason is: yes. This playoffs is evidence that teams can win without two superstars.

And I would put the Bucks right there with the Suns and Hawks, as Middleton is good, but... he's not what I consider to be a superstar. Even the Clippers, if they somehow win, have done so without Kawhi.

All four teams have one superstar (giving Young the benefit of the doubt there), at least one more really good player (Collins, Middleton, Paul).

I'm glad that it doesn't have to be LeBron+Davis, or the Nets' trio, that are shoo-ins for the title. I'd like to think not only can teams build winners in different ways but that there is real value in building deep, talented teams rather than top-heavy ones that rely on veteran former stars (Aldridge/Griffin, Cousins, etc.) coming to work for cheap to flesh out a team.

The Blazers are top-heavy, but both not good enough at the top NOR deep/talented enough to make up for it, unfortunately.

 

[Natebishop3]

And now you're using the bubble as an indicator of NBA performance or consistent patterns? Jesus, just take the L and move on.

You're pushing the narrative that Chris Paul turned the lowly Suns into a playoff contender. The bubble proved that they had already started turning things around. If they hadn't added Paul do you think they miss the playoffs this year?