Asterisk Next To *Jason Kidd's Name

[worldchamps9903]

http://www.nba.com/news/allnba_040425.html

Jermaine O'neal had 423 Points for the all nba teams and Jason kidd had 421 points. Yet kidd makes the 1st team and Oneal makes the 2nd team. It is not fair that they do it by position and not on who is the best in the league.

 

[InNETSweTrust]

It's just fair man. That's why it's called the All-NBA Team. It's a team. NBA teams are composed of guards, forwards and centers. Being in the all-nba team, it shows that you're the best at what you do and Kidd is the best at his position.

JO competes against loads of big men for the position. In the same way that Kidd does.

 

[throwback]

trust is right. kidd also had more first team votes than jo (55-33). i really dont think you can argue against kidd to not be on 1st team. its G-G-F-F-C and the two F's were taken up by kg and td. jo isnt as good as those two. i dont undertand the point thing, it should just be votes to keep it simple. either way kidd deserved 1st team, and jo deserved 2nd team. there isnt/should be no asterik next to kidds name b/c they play diff positions, period.

did anybody watch the abc show with byron scott? mike turico asked him if he would keep the 1st team the way they are, and byron said no. he said that tmac should have been 1st team over kidd b/c he is a top 5 player. when mike asked byron if that was because of him and jasons situtation, byron said no while laughing which shows that it was b/c he doesnt like jason. then tom tolbert said he couldnt vote for a guy who was on a team who won 19games. then again tolbert is a massive tool, but was right about tmac shouldnt be on 1st team.

congratz to sammy c for making an all-nba second team, he deserves it. still dont understand how dirk made it, hes more of a one-sided player. teams came out good though.

 

[Henacy]

I think they do it the right way imo, like evryone has already said its called an All-NBA Team . You cant have a team without guards to the bigmen the ball so they need their fair share of recognition as well.

But more importantly is K-Mart only getting 1 vote for the all-NBA team

What was the voting people watching this season. K-Mart was the best all-round bigman in the East behind JO'neal. Yet Oneal makes 2nd team & Kmart only gets one vote. They werent that far apart this season imo. Oh well this is going to be great motivation for Martin, if we meet the Pacers in the East Finals. And I love the way K-mart dominates when he is trying to prove a point.

 

[Rave]

It's alright and fair that he got the spot. There is no competition for the spots that J'O'neal was eligible for. Shaq, KG and TD. Totally dominant over him even if they were to play lazily or on their bad days.(Especially Shaq, seeing as lazy is what he is.) Also Kidd provides a lot more for his team, look at who and what he has. It's obvious the Pacers have a much more impressive roster.

 

[STC]

Like everyone said, it is a team, not All-NBA Players.

 

[InNETSweTrust]

It will only motivate KMart to do better next year. Remember at the start of the season when people are saying that he's not an all-star? He proved them wrong. When Thomas called him Fugazy? He dominated the whole series. Hopefully people will start noticing him more next year.

Scott just lost the last remaining respect I have for him.

 

[mike18946]

First off, no 47 win team deserves two guys in the all NBA first team selection

2nd, averaging 16 points 9 rebounds is not good enough to be mentioned in the same sentance as the other top forwards in the NBA. If Martin deserves to be mentioned so does Lamar Odom.

 

[InNETSweTrust]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">First off, no 47 win team deserves two guys in the all NBA first team selection

2nd, averaging 16 points 9 rebounds is not good enough to be mentioned in the same sentance as the other top forwards in the NBA. If Martin deserves to be mentioned so does Lamar Odom.</div>

Dude, we're not saying that he should be in the first team. Just get more votes and recognition.

 

[mike18946]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting InNETSweTrust:</div><div class="quote_post">Dude, we're not saying that he should be in the first team. Just get more votes and recognition.</div>

Does he deserve votes? Not from where I'm sitting.

You have to be more successful than he has been to be considered, being considered or like you put it have some votes is for the top players in the NBA...this isn't anything like the all-star game selection.

When Martin is putting up closer to 20 and 10 while the Nets have over 55-60 wins..then he should be considered

Until then......

 

[InNETSweTrust]

He had a double double avg during a streak in the season. But then injuries got the best of him. He came back and dominated the series. That's gotta show something with regards to his status.

He's an all around player. He also blocks and steals. He's one of the best post defenders in the NBA. He's one of the best perimeter defenders among all big men. He made some strong defensive and offensive plays that's won games for them.

He's definitely worth more than a vote. If not for key injuries in the Nets team, they'd definitely be a 50+ team.

Maybe next year.

 

[Henacy]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">Does he deserve votes? Not from where I'm sitting.

You have to be more successful than he has been to be considered, being considered or like you put it have some votes is for the top players in the NBA...this isn't anything like the all-star game selection.

When Martin is putting up closer to 20 and 10 while the Nets have over 55-60 wins..then he should be considered

Until then......</div>

I am not saying he should have made any of the 3 teams. But when I look at some of the other names that got honorable mention at the forward spot Pau Gasol, Brad Miller(who basically done nothing after the all-star), Amare(who was injured for a large part of the 1st half when PHX fell out the player race)etc. your're telling me they derserved more votes than K-Mart? They had more impact on both ends of the court then K-Mart?

Its not only getting 20 & 10 imo. You have to take in the impact that players have on both end of the court. And imo no Power Forward other than maybe Kevin Garnett has more impact on the defesive end then K-Mart. So when you consider K-Marts' defensive impact along with his 16.7ppg & 9.5rpg, he should have gotten more consideration for a spot.

Iam not saying that he should have made any of the 3 teams but 1 vote imo is a disrespect to his the effort everyday on the court & his consistent improvement. Imo before he got injured late in the season, Kenyon Martin was the Nets team MVP for 2004. When everybody(including Jason Kidd) stop playing hard for B. Scott, K-Mart was still going 100%. He was the guy making the big Defesive plays against teams like the Heat & Hornets etc.

So to give K-Mart only 1 vote is a shame imo.

 

[mike18946]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I am not saying he should have made any of the 3 teams. But when I look at some of the other names that got honorable mention at the forward spot Pau Gasol, Brad Miller(who basically done nothing after the all-star), Amare(who was injured for a large part of the 1st half when PHX fell out the player race)etc. your're telling me they derserved more votes than K-Mart? They had more impact on both ends of the court then K-Mart?
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Gasol and Miller being on very good winning teams in the tough western conference has alot to do with them getting votes, both are very worthy, purely for that reason. Amare even though his team has struggled, he has been a 25 and 12 guy for the past few months of the season, broke Charles Barkley's records for most 20 point game performances in a row. those guys being ahead of Martin in terms of voting is not unreasonable

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And imo no Power Forward other than maybe Kevin Garnett has more impact on the defesive end then K-Mart</div>

Do guys like Tim Duncan, Rasheed Wallace, Jermaine O'Neal ring a bell? All done the same If not more than Martin on the defensive end (mainly TD)

 

[throwback]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">Does he deserve votes? Not from where I'm sitting.

You have to be more successful than he has been to be considered, being considered or like you put it have some votes is for the top players in the NBA...this isn't anything like the all-star game selection.

When Martin is putting up closer to 20 and 10 while the Nets have over 55-60 wins..then he should be considered

Until then......</div>

^ hater in the house!



you can't just judge on #'s. thats the kind of ppl that screwed kidd out of the mvp 2yrs ago. that's when you know people have no clue what they are talking about. you actually have to WATCH kmart play this season compared to other seasons. he was much more than 16/9. im not sayin he is the best f in the game, or even in the east. jo got more votes than normal b/c of how good indy was this yr. he has b/c the best pf in the east for now, sheed and kmart are 2nd and 3rd. if you watched kmart past yrs and this yr, you would've seen how much he has improved in all aspects of his game and has helped us this year. injuries toward the end of the season did slow him down, but thats now excuse. im suprised he only got 1 vote, but not suprised that he didnt make the teams. i didn't expect him to make the team this yr b/c there are plenty of other guys that deserved it. its just that 1 seems a little bit too low of a vote count for his improvement.

plus, a teams record shouldn't have anything to do with it. if the player is good enough, he should be on it. injuries are apart of this game which can harm a teams record(as happened to nets this yr) and individual recs, so you cant grade on a record or stats, you have to actually watch the person play.

 

[mike18946]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">^ hater in the house!

you can't just judge on #'s. thats the kind of ppl that screwed kidd out of the mvp 2yrs ago. that's when you know people have no clue what they are talking about. you actually have to WATCH kmart play this season compared to other seasons. he was much more than 16/9</div>

Don't make statements you have no right in making, Kidd didn't get MVP 2 years ago because he played in the weak east, Tim Duncan did alot more for his team that year..but I'm not going to go over that again.

I do watch K-mart quite alot and he still relies on fastbreak buckets and amazing alley-oop and passes from Kidd to put up great numbers. He has certainly improved his overall post game and is more of a threat with his 18 foot jump shot than he used to be, he has seemed to have found a nice hook shot within his game as well. Martin is a top 3 PF in the east no doubt about it..no one is saying he isn't. However I don't think he deserves to be right up there with the top forwards from the west when it comes to the voting unless he starts putting up better allrounded numbers.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">jo got more votes than normal b/c of how good indy was this yr. he has b/c the best pf in the east for now</div>

It has more to do with the fact he is actually averaging a double double, 20 and 10 guys are rare in the NBA...Thats why Jermaine is considered the best PF in the eastern conference.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">plus, a teams record shouldn't have anything to do with it. if the player is good enough, he should be on it. injuries are apart of this game which can harm a teams record(as happened to nets this yr) and individual recs, so you cant grade on a record or stats, you have to actually watch the person play.</div>

Team records are very important what deciding the all NBA team's, It shows you can help make your team a success...Numbers normally come first but having a good team and get a certain amount of wins gives you a better chance.

 

[Henacy]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">

Do guys like Tim Duncan, Rasheed Wallace, Jermaine O'Neal ring a bell? All done the same If not more than Martin on the defensive end (mainly TD)</div>

1)Lets start with Rasheed Wallace his impact on the defensive end was not their in Portland the 1st half of the season. Granted he added on to the Pistons defense the last few month's of the season. But thats playing alongside the best defensive player year in & year out in Ben Wallace. That allows Rasheed to increase his impact with his help defense instead of having to stop the opposing teams best bigman on the ball. K-Mart has to be the on-ball defender & the Weakside help man for the Nets D in the low post.


2) Tim Duncan, now I know Duncan is the best bigman in the game. But can you honestly say that he guards the opposing teams best bigman game & an game out? I have seen games where Rasho has guarded the likes of KG, not Duncan. K-Mart doesnt have that Luxury, he has to guard the best bigman on the oposing team no matter what.

3) J.Oneal, great shot blocker. But he isnt in K-Mart class when it comes to cotaining their man in the low block. I cant think of one big impact play to win a game on the Defesive end that J.Oeal has made this year. I can think of about 7 or 8 k-mart has made off the top of my head.

K-Mart carry more pressure & Load of his teams defense in the low post then any of these players you listed, so they are great players. And do have alot of impact on their teams Defense. I think K-Marts' load give him an edge over all of them. That is why I said KG is probably the only player at the position that has more impact on the D end then K-Mart.

 

[mike18946]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">1)Lets start with Rasheed Wallace his impact on the defensive end was not their in Portland the 1st half of the season. Granted he added on to the Pistons defense the last few month's of the season. But thats playing alongside the best defensive player year in & year out in Ben Wallace. That allows Rasheed to increase his impact with his help defense instead of having to stop the opposing teams best bigman on the ball. K-Mart has to be the on-ball defender & the Weakside help man for the Nets D in the low post.

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Rasheed has ALWAYS been a good defender he has just never got the credit he deserves. He often goes out and guards small forwards and contends them successfully. He is the same when guarding guys in the post. He is just a good a defender as Martin is, Sheed has always been considered a good defender but an underrated one.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">2) Tim Duncan, now I know Duncan is the best bigman in the game. But can you honestly say that he guards the opposing teams best bigman game & an game out? I have seen games where Rasho has guarded the likes of KG, not Duncan. K-Mart doesnt have that Luxury, he has to guard the best bigman on the oposing team no matter what.
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Duncan can and will guard the other top forwards in the NBA and when he is matched up with them, he often shuts them down. There is a reason why he continues to be on the all defensive first team, It's an insult to consider Martin a better defender than Tim.. Just because Martin is forced to guard big men all the time doesn't mean he is the better defender, Spurs can't always afford Duncan to guard the other teams best big man all the time purely because of the risk of the refs calling fouls..and Rasho is an improved defender who can do a soild job.

I agree with you on Jermaine but he should still be considered right up there in terms of defense no matter If he makes key plays or not.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">K-Mart carry more pressure & Load of his teams defense in the low post then any of these players you listed, so they are great players. And do have alot of impact on their teams Defense. I think K-Marts' load give him an edge over all of them. That is why I said KG is probably the only player at the position that has more impact on the D end then K-Mart</div>

Thats not really true at all, Rasheed and Tim have to carry just as much when guarding guys one on one. I fail to see how Martin is a better defender than Tim Duncan, infact that is a strange point of view...Duncan makes all defensive first team, year after year because he is one of the best defenders in the NBA

Yes Martin is a good defender but to say only KG is a better defender at that PF spot is just plain wrong more so when Ben Wallace is actually down as a power forward.

 

[Henacy]

^All Net you kind of made my points for me.

1)Tim Duncan- I never said K-Mart was a better defender than Duncan. I said he has more impact on his teams defense simply for the things you stated & agreed with. Duncan with the Spurs has the Luxury of not having to guard the oposing teams best all the time. K-Mart doesnt have that luxury. Everbody knows what tpye of defender Duncan is & capable of being. When he was at Wake he was more of a defender than an offensive player anyway, so everyone has always known about Duncan defense. My point is that he doesnt have to carry the load that k-mart does for his teams D. Thats why I say Martin has more impact. If k-Mart cant guard a certain bigman or get in foul trouble the Nets dont really have a 2nd option on D. The Spurs have alot of options of body's to throw on power forwards. Rasho, Horry, even Willis & Rose(if need be) can all spend time guarding opposing PF. And have success in containing them.

2) K-Mart can guard Small-forwards. And still does from time to time as well. But That isnt his role on the team anymore because RJ. The pressure isnt on K-Mart to defend small forwards on the perimeter like it was 2 or 3 years but he more than capable. And the pressure isnt on Rasheed either, Prince is an excellent defender at that Small Forward spot. So they both are capable that isnt really either one's role on their team. But K-Mart carry more pressure as far as being a post defender. He doesnt have a weakside defender like Ben Wallace to make up for his mistakes on Defense. K-Mart has to contain his man all by himself. JC hardly ever comes with any weak side help. Rasheed Wallace can take gambles & make mistakes because he has a weakside shot blocker like Ben on his team. Rasheed was a good defender on the Blazers, but in no way was he the level of Defender that he is on the Pistons. And that is because he plays with Ben Wallace. Ben Wallace bails Rasheed & everyone else one the Pistons out time in & time out. If you give k-mart a weakside defender like Ben hell be a better defender then he already is as well. Rasheed is not a better defender nor does he carry the Defensive load that K-Mart.

 

[throwback]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">Don't make statements you have no right in making, Kidd didn't get MVP 2 years ago because he played in the weak east, Tim Duncan did alot more for his team that year..but I'm not going to go over that again.
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roffles!! (i'll leave it at that)