Batun's extension and minutes - very interesting

[Blazinaway]

So here we are with Nic's extension meeting scheduled for Friday and him playing his lowest minutes of the year last night after a first half when he scored 9 points. And for added intrigue we just had Gerald say no extension and he will make his decision this summer. And Nic just said yesterday he prefers minutes over $$$$. The timing of all this does not seem so good to me, I can't imagine Nic being happy about his minutes so far this yr which I believe are his lowest since his rookie season. I think we have the makings of a bit of problem, then again who knows, should be interesting to follow.

 

[Brock]

As much as i like Batum, ive come to realize he will never be a star. Really good role player on a good team. I think the blazers have realized this and are considering who to extend... him or wallace. Dont think we can keep em both. I just dont think Batum will ever be a big time consistent player you can count on. Wallace is our 2nd best player by far now. Wes is 3rd and thats fine. However you cant have Wes be the 2nd best player or you start having issues. Batum to me is a starter on some teams but i think he might be more a bench type that does little things that get you wins. If you are counting on 18 points a night from him every night as a starter.... good luck. i really think they should try and deal/package him for a stud PG or center.

 

[magnifier661]

As much as i like Batum, ive come to realize he will never be a star. Really good role player on a good team. I think the blazers have realized this and are considering who to extend... him or wallace. Dont think we can keep em both. I just dont think Batum will ever be a big time consistent player you can count on. Wallace is our 2nd best player by far now. Wes is 3rd and thats fine. However you cant have Wes be the 2nd best player or you start having issues. Batum to me is a starter on some teams but i think he might be more a bench type that does little things that get you wins. If you are counting on 18 points a night from him every night as a starter.... good luck. i really think they should try and deal/package him for a stud PG or center.

Felton and Batum for deron Williams?

 

[Brock]

yes please

 

[magnifier661]

yes please

Lol I wish!!!!!!

 

[Draco]

As much as i like Batum, ive come to realize he will never be a star. Really good role player on a good team. I think the blazers have realized this and are considering who to extend... him or wallace. Dont think we can keep em both. I just dont think Batum will ever be a big time consistent player you can count on. Wallace is our 2nd best player by far now. Wes is 3rd and thats fine. However you cant have Wes be the 2nd best player or you start having issues. Batum to me is a starter on some teams but i think he might be more a bench type that does little things that get you wins. If you are counting on 18 points a night from him every night as a starter.... good luck. i really think they should try and deal/package him for a stud PG or center.

Yeah thats kind of been my take as well. Batum has value, but when fans assume his "potential" is going to lead to above average starter production they are building the guy up to dissapoint, those are unrealistic expectations. I would love to keep Batum if the price is right, but he can't be clogging up too much cap room if we want to keep the rest of the roster competitive. If Batum wants security of a long term contract now he'd be worth us keeping at around an MLE level salary. If he wants more money then that he needs to wait until RFA and see what he can get.

 

[tlongII]

Gerald is right now and possibly a couple years more. Nic is the future. I think it's more important to re-sign Nic than Gerald, but I would like to have them both. If we were to trade Nic and Felton for D-Will we would weaken the team. I don't want to do that.

 

[Blazinaway]

Yeah thats kind of been my take as well. Batum has value, but when fans assume his "potential" is going to lead to above average starter production they are building the guy up to dissapoint, those are unrealistic expectations. I would love to keep Batum if the price is right, but he can't be clogging up too much cap room if we want to keep the rest of the roster competitive. If Batum wants security of a long term contract now he'd be worth us keeping at around an MLE level salary. If he wants more money then that he needs to wait until RFA and see what he can get.

one of the things that has not been mentioned is how much GWall might cost and the length of contract he wants. If he and the Blazers do well IMO it's very likely he will opt out with so many teams having a lot of capspace and frankly not that many good FA's besides a top few. He's got one big payday left and may want 4-5 years at well over 10 mil per - do we really want to possibly have to pay him that much for that long (he's 29 now)? Or do we try to lock up Nic for a decent contract and trade Gwall or let him opt out and go this summer? Tough decisions IMO

 

[THE HCP]

I think I go with Batum long term over Wallace.

 

[mook]

Probably the best time to sell on Batum was right after his great summer in Europe when his stock was at its highest. The second best time is probably right now.

For whatever reason he's got a little Kirelenko-itis. A guy whose flexibility and talent allows him to be The Man in a thrown-together Euro team, but can't really translate that success into being The Man on an 82 game NBA team.

I remember reading an interview with Shawn Marion during his hay day in Phoenix and the gist of it was that he wished he had the chance to be The Man on his own team, and boy wouldn't that be great. Lamar Odom, Tayshaun Prince...the league has had a number of these SF-types with Tracy McGrady-like bodies and athleticism who've shown glimmers of superstar potential, and nobody wants to be like the Toronto Raptors and just trade it away before it matures into the next Tracy McGrady.

But the truth is that for every Tracy McGrady there are at least half a dozen Tayshaun Princes that should've been traded by the team that drafted them when the stock was still high. Batum is one of those guys.

I'm a huge Batum fan and I love watching him play. But we've got a mature team that's angling to make some serious noise in the playoffs, and he's our most attractive trade chip for a team looking to move a good player (ideally PG) in order to rebuild. There was a time when Utah could've gotten nice value for Kirilenko. Ditto Detroit and Prince, Clippers and Odom, Phoenix and Marion. They didn't pull the trigger and they missed their respective windows. With every game I think we're seeing our window of opportunity close on Batum.

 

[Brock]

See I totally disagree with Batum being the future. Well i guess it depends on what road we take. If the BLazers want to win a tite then they keep Wallace. If they wanna rebuild after this year then Batum. Its a tough call but I really see Batum as a player that will drive you nuts. Scores 24 one night and 6 the next. Just think hes perfect as a sixth man or a starter in a heat/knicks lineup. Very hard call for Portland but I almost would see what offers he gets and try to maybe match. The blazers biggest need is a center since we wont have one come this summer.

 

[magnifier661]

See I totally disagree with Batum being the future. Well i guess it depends on what road we take. If the BLazers want to win a tite then they keep Wallace. If they wanna rebuild after this year then Batum. Its a tough call but I really see Batum as a player that will drive you nuts. Scores 24 one night and 6 the next. Just think hes perfect as a sixth man or a starter in a heat/knicks lineup. Very hard call for Portland but I almost would see what offers he gets and try to maybe match. The blazers biggest need is a center since we wont have one come this summer.

I also disagree with Batum being the future as well. I love his game, but I see him being a career above average "roll player". I think he will have 0 chance to ever make the all-star game.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Nic is 23 yrs old. Already his NBA future has been determined?

Batum is athletic, talented, good locker room guy and good community guy. Way too early to determine what future role he will have with the team, but the Blazers would be fools to not extend him or lose him as a RFA.

 

[magnifier661]

Nic is 23 yrs old. Already his NBA future has been determined?

Batum is athletic, talented, good locker room guy and good community guy. Way too early to determine what future role he will have with the team, but the Blazers would be fools to not extend him or lose him as a RFA.

I totally agree with this. I don't understand why we couldn't keep both? Wallace has at least 2 years of being a starter; and he doesn't seem like a player that minds coming off the bench. I don't think Batum is "thin skinned" to be too concerned as well. I see this as more of Wallace being the starter in 12-13, 12-14, then back up just in time for Batum to be in his prime.

I think Brass can sell that to Batum very easily.

 

[Blazinaway]

I totally agree with this. I don't understand why we couldn't keep both? Wallace has at least 2 years of being a starter; and he doesn't seem like a player that minds coming off the bench. I don't think Batum is "thin skinned" to be too concerned as well. I see this as more of Wallace being the starter in 12-13, 12-14, then back up just in time for Batum to be in his prime.

I think Brass can sell that to Batum very easily.

with the new CBA we have to look ahead, can we afford to pay Wallace 11 mil per and Batum maybe 7mil? with LMA at 12 and Wes at 7 and then what we pay a PG and we'll need a C, I don't if we really can afford to pay both as we have other needs.

 

[HailBlazers]

Thank God for PA

 

[Nikolokolus]

I know Nic has his ups and downs and consistency issues, but a large part of that IMO is that he's kind of "rhythm guy." he's the kind of player that seems to build momentum the longer he's in a game and the more engaged he is with the offense ... he and Wallace are very different in that respect.

I guess before the team writes him off completely and ships him down the river I'd like to see him in a more prominent and defined role than "12 minutes, off-the-bench, energy guy" or "defensive stopper." I just don't think we're ever going to see him reach for his ceiling, let alone touch it, if this is what he's going to do here.

That said, I'm not averse to trading him, but I wouldn't do it just to resign Gerald to a long-term big money contract.

 

[Draco]

one of the things that has not been mentioned is how much GWall might cost and the length of contract he wants. If he and the Blazers do well IMO it's very likely he will opt out with so many teams having a lot of capspace and frankly not that many good FA's besides a top few. He's got one big payday left and may want 4-5 years at well over 10 mil per - do we really want to possibly have to pay him that much for that long (he's 29 now)? Or do we try to lock up Nic for a decent contract and trade Gwall or let him opt out and go this summer? Tough decisions IMO

All the more reason to wait on a Batum extension until the offseason. We won't lose him as a RFA unless we want to let him go, we will know the status of Gerald in the offseason and then be able to make a more informed stategic decision on retaining Batum.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Thank God for PA

Why? He's already stated fairly clearly and publicly that his days as big luxury tax payer are over. And I don't think it's just talk, remember he was a part of the "hardline" owners group that pushed for a highly regressive tax and the biggest hit to player compensation.

 

[Draco]

I know Nic has his ups and downs and consistency issues, but a large part of that IMO is that he's kind of "rhythm guy." he's the kind of player that seems to build momentum the longer he's in a game and the more engaged he is with the offense ... he and Wallace are very different in that respect.

I guess before the team writes him off completely and ships him down the river I'd like to see him in a more prominent and defined role than "12 minutes, off-the-bench, energy guy" or "defensive stopper." I just don't think we're ever going to see him reach for his ceiling, let alone touch it, if this is what he's going to do here.

That said, I'm not averse to trading him, but I wouldn't do it just to resign Gerald to a long-term big money contract.

He had that chance in three playoff series and the best he could do was 8 ppg while being shut out from the defense of Steve Nash.

 

[Nikolokolus]

All the more reason to wait on a Batum extension until the offseason. We won't lose him as a RFA unless we want to let him go, we will know the status of Gerald in the offseason and then be able to make a more informed stategic decision on retaining Batum.

If he makes it to restricted free agency an extension is off the table and the Blazers will be at the mercy of the market.

 

[Draco]

Nic is 23 yrs old. Already his NBA future has been determined?

Batum is athletic, talented, good locker room guy and good community guy. Way too early to determine what future role he will have with the team, but the Blazers would be fools to not extend him or lose him as a RFA.

You can say the same thing about 25 free agents every offseason. Sure we arn't guaranteed Batum won't magically develope into some type of all-star, but the historic chance of that happening to a wing player in their 5th season is virtually zero.

 

[magnifier661]

with the new CBA we have to look ahead, can we afford to pay Wallace 11 mil per and Batum maybe 7mil? with LMA at 12 and Wes at 7 and then what we pay a PG and we'll need a C, I don't if we really can afford to pay both as we have other needs.

Well Allen said he doesn't want to pay Luxury tax anymore; but he didn't say he doesn't want to go over cap. So if we look at the cap being close to 58 mil, and the luxury threshhold being around 70; why couldn't we?

Aldridge + 12, Wallace +9, Batum +6.5, Wes +7, Felton +7, Oden (Big if he comes back) +9, Jamal +9 (we may not want him), Mil MLE +2.5, Max MLE +7, a couple vet mins +3 mil, some rookies +3-5 mil. That equals = 75.5 So the big ifs would be Oden +9 and Crawford +9.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I'm a huge Wallace fan and was against trading him for mid to late round draft picks. But if this new CBA has the effect it is intending, it would be a mistake to commit to a big money long term deal with Wallace.

I could see an offer of big money for 1-2 years ,but Wallace will probably be offered a long term deal from some team who wants him bad enough. It is a tough situation for the Blazers, but smart contracts are going to be a big asset for organizations. Signing Nic to a long term deal would be smart, signing Wallace to a long term deal would not be, IMO.

I don't think they should trade Wallace unless this year falls apart, but I think they should be ready to let him walk at the end of the year (if what he is looking for is the biggest contract).

 

[Draco]

If he makes it to restricted free agency an extension is off the table and the Blazers will be at the mercy of the market.

So he could be worth more or less than an extension will cost now. I'd rather make that decision when we have more information then overpaying him now because of some fear teams will be throwing the kitchen sink at him.

Well Allen said he doesn't want to pay Luxury tax anymore; but he didn't say he doesn't want to go over cap. So if we look at the cap being close to 58 mil, and the luxury threshhold being around 70; why couldn't we?

Aldridge + 12, Wallace +9, Batum +6.5, Wes +7, Felton +7, Oden (Big if he comes back) +9, Jamal +9 (we may not want him), Mil MLE +2.5, Max MLE +7, a couple vet mins +3 mil, some rookies +3-5 mil. That equals = 75.5 So the big ifs would be Oden +9 and Crawford +9.

If we are over the cap we can't offer Crawford more then ~$6. To get under the cap we need to renouce some of Batum/Wallace/Felton/Oden. I'm fine with Crawford leaving if he costs more then $6 mil.

 

[Natebishop3]

I think I would wait until the trade deadline and put a lot of pressure on NJ to deal us Deron Williams for Felton and Batum if they can't get Howard. That team is pretty damn shitty without D12 and I don't think Deron is enamored with the big city. He wants to win. Offer them Felton and Batum and then try to pickup some shooter from the D league or something to fill his hole.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

You can say the same thing about 25 free agents every offseason. Sure we arn't guaranteed Batum won't magically develope into some type of all-star, but the historic chance of that happening to a wing player in their 5th season is virtually zero.

Really? I don't follow all players but there are 25 FA who are 23 yrs old, athletic, talented, good locker room guy and good community guys?

In 4 seasons, from the age of 19-23, Nic has shown improvement, growth in his game, and an overall understanding of the game. Yes there is no guarentee he will be an all star (if there was he would get max money), but I would gamble on someone like Nic becoming an integral part of the team and not allow any other team to outbid for his services (in most situations).

 

[HailBlazers]

Why? He's already stated fairly clearly and publicly that his days as big luxury tax payer are over. And I don't think it's just talk, remember he was a part of the "hardline" owners group that pushed for a highly regressive tax and the biggest hit to player compensation.

I know, and he was right for doing so, the system is pretty crappy.

Regardless, I still believe he's one of a few owners willing to spend, Especially in a Championship window.

 

[Brock]

well i think we should keep wallace and move batum/felton for a standout pg.... or center

 

[magnifier661]

well i think we should keep wallace and move batum/felton for a standout pg.... or center

Center? I don't think those two could do that. Isn't it the norm that you don't trade a small for a big? Or are you talking like Camby and Batum for a center/pf type or Batum/Felton for a PG?